JeffCa

I despise packing. I'd beg you to pack for me. I also support creating jobs for teens. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

I asked about this because my AAD control is under a flap next to my back and cannot be accessed when I'm wearing the rig. The response I got was that it's the pilot's responsibility to descend at sub-activation speeds in the activation altitude window. The pilot knows this and knows what to do. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

Where's the option for a Peregrine? I'm the same weight as you with the same number of jumps, and I'm on a Pilot 188. It will probably be another one or two hundred jumps or so before I consider the 168. You're rushing too much, in my non-experienced opinion. Just because you CAN fly it, doesn't mean you HAVE TO. I know I could definitely fly the 168 and probably the 150 at my experience level, but why hurry? "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

Thanks for the info, but you have to understand that most of us have not seen it. I don't think I wrote that testing was never done, just that we don't get to see it, or it isn't prominently displayed on their websites. It impairs our ability to make educated choices as consumers and people who are literally trusting them with our lives. I'm pretty happy that at least one manufacturer is waving around the info like a crazy man, but if it's just one I have nothing to .... Oh, look at the pretty colours and pinstripes! Wait, what was I just talking about? Oh well, it couldn't have been important. Sounds like you're saying that we should blame the lawyers? "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

I'm no John Mitchell, but I did the same. Despite warnings about 2-out possibilities, I planned for the most likely scenario. I have a new container designed for my 218 Optimum, which loads me at 0.83 (unconscious scenario considered). My main is a 188. I may downsize my main once or twice in my skydiving career, but I plan to keep that reserve until either I retire or it's no longer serviceable, whichever comes first. Any new containers will be built for it. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

This is exactly what I found when I was researching which container to buy. I went to every major manufacturer's website. Only a few mentioned their reserve pilot chute. Some had no comment at all about it. Of the ones that did mention it, all but one had just a single fluff comment like, "One of the industry's strongest pilot chutes". Only one manufacturer, Jump Shack for their Racer, gave any more information. JS has some documents about their testing published for anybody to see. As for all of the other manufacturers, they made sure that colour and pinstripe options were very prominent. The worst offender was one company that, based on my observations, I'd wager sells more sport rigs than any other company. Did you know that you can now get rig X with an extra pinstripe?! Wow, we should all run out and buy it! The research made me think that we as skydivers are not a very bright group. I'm sure the manufacturers are just giving us what we want, and we are apparently dazzled by shiny things (pinstripes and tie-dye). If we were smart enough to rebel and demand that safety information be published, we might see some progress on this. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

I agree that an extra 300 feet is worth it. Some deployments might be delayed, but it also buys a little extra time to set up for a safe landing. I pull above 3,000 feet anyway, so a firing height of 1,000 feet should never result in a 2-out for me. The big-man apology is appreciated. Racer didn't deserve to get that pinned on them. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

With Larry? You're completely incorrect, if the thread is at all accurate. I checked the thread this morning after you posted, and the report was that the cutaway was extremely low, and the AAD activated just above the ground. I assume you know that AADs have a RANGE of altitude they fire in, not just one altitude. It went through 700 feet at too low a speed to activate, then the cut happened, causing the speed to increase to activation speeds. There's no indication that his was a case of an AAD firing in the 700' range. This is what the witnesses reported. The AAD report eventually showed impact 1.5 seconds after the cut, which is WAY below 700'. Their exact determination, according to the thread and the report from Vigil that John Sherman posted, was about 220 feet for activation altitude. This is also what pchapman posted to you before I posted. The Racer reserve is not supposed to deploy in just 200 feet. So my argument is that the following 2 things are not the same: 1. My reserve only reached line stretch because my pilot chute does not produce enough drag force to pull my reserve out of the container as fast as it should, or at all. 2. My reserve only reached line stretch because I activated it so low that despite deploying as designed, there was not enough altitude remaining. I see your comments in Larry's thread, calling him a friend and writing that you're going to increase your AAD activation altitude, so I don't think you ever properly understood what apparently happened to him. Increasing your activation altitude will neither help you to avoid his fate, nor will it honour his memory. What will help you is what so many others here have taught me: 1. to stay altitude aware 2. to not invest your remaining time/altitude in a malfunctioning main 3. to set an audible alarm at your cutaway hard deck and to obey it (I have one at 2,000 feet and another at 1,000 feet meaning "last chance to survive, moron!") "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

What does this even mean? We ALL put "all of our eggs into one manufacturer's basket". Do you know of any "combo rigs" that have systems designed by multiple container manufacturers? We ALL wear ONE manufacturer's rig when we go up there. We choose ONE container and then do the best we can with it. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

Larry? Isn't he the guy who was witnessed cutting away extremely low? I'm sorry normiss, but do you know of a gear manufacturer that gets their reserve out no matter how low you cutaway? I know I'm new, but I don't know of any. This is a really poor argument to use, and doesn't appear to have anything at all to do with reserve extraction force. Do you know of any cases of a Racer with an AAD firing at optimum altitude and the reserve not opening? If so, please present those. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

For all of the people who call John Sherman crazy, he has a lot of wisdom to share, and publishes it on his site. Other manufacturers either don't test these things or keep them hidden from the public because they think we're not interested (and they're right about most of us). I checked all of the major manufacturers' websites and made this thread: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4478265;search_string=reserve%20extraction%20newbie;#4478265 That's why I got myself a Racer. The reserve coming out of the container is one of the 3 things that I consider non-negotiable about a rig. My container is custom-made for my reserve size, even though I got an over-sized reserve, 30 sq. ft bigger than my main. We have a jumper at our DZ who hasn't been around since the early-90's, and is just now back in. When he saw my rig, the only Racer on our DZ, he thumped the back and told me, "That reserve is coming out when it has to!" Why shouldn't the test be mandatory? Assuming the reserve is being re-packed without being deployed, it would take only a few minutes, right? Might add $5 to the cost of re-pack? It could at least be done once for every container/reserve combo that you have. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

Can somebody please tell me why this person has posts like this about him on this forum? I did a search and turned up this and one other warning, but no explanations. He is on my FB friends from my (brief) time at Elsinore, and is well-connected to many of my other friends. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

Ha! I predict I'll have no more than 3 in my entire skydiving career. I still drill my procedures every day when I gear up for the first time. I really don't think I'll hesitate to cut a bad canopy. I'm usually fully open by 2,800 feet, and I have my audible set for 2,000 feet, which is my final notice to chop if I still have a problem. I plan to obey it. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

Seems that I'm hearing this somewhat frequently. Are AFFI's not teaching people to sweep their cutaway release cables? Don't worry, DSE, mine taught me to sweep. So you don't have to go slap BW in the head or anything.... only if you want to. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

That would have ruined my data. For the people who have chopped, I'm just trying to distract them. No, It wouidn'd have ruined it. there are a lot of people who are like me and really don't care. Like I said. You gotta do what you gotta do. I was trying to get the ones who "really don't care" to lean one way or the other. Even myself, I'm not as far into the "No" camp as you might think. There is a small part of me that wants to use what I was trained for. But overall, my feeling is no. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

That would have ruined my data. For the people who have chopped, I'm just trying to distract them. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

I saw an internet comment by somebody who I presume is a whuffo suggesting that skydivers all look forward to the rush of our first cutaway. I thought it was a bit odd because I certainly don't (don't want to see if my rigger made a rare mistake, don't want to possibly lose my main, etc.), and recently I've heard a whole lot of bragging about how many jumps people have done without ever having to chop. So for those of us who have never chopped, how do you feel about the prospect of it? Is anybody who looks forward to it actually doing sloppy pack jobs in the hopes that it will happen sooner? And for those who have cutaway, I put special options in the survey just so you don't ruin my results. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

Rigging Innovations (Genera) and Jump Shack (Shadow Racer) each make a basic-options container for about $1,500. You get a container that is custom-built for your size and for your canopies, for a good price. My Shadow Racer was ready in 4 weeks. There is also the just-add-harness Javelin option on stock containers, ready in just a couple of weeks, but that will be more expensive. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

I don't know if we have an actual policy, but we have jumpers well under 200 total jumps who have cameras. I think we even have some who are sub-100 jump. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

I take the long-term view: 1. Have children 2. Wait 18 years 3. Train them to jump 4. Jump with them If you can't find 'em, make 'em yourself! "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

Double? No way, not if you buy the 30-jump minimum! I was just at Elsinore this spring, paying $25 per jump. In Tokyo, it's $30 with the package. And gear rental is not bad either, $20 per jump. $10 for the pack, if you want it. I was paying about $7 + tip to the packers at Elsinore. When the exchange rate was drastically different a year ago, it made the USA look much cheaper, but it still wasn't double in Tokyo. I planned my trip to Elsinore when the dollar was at 76 yen. Then it rose to about 96 yen on me before I left. I paid 25% more than I had planned to, but it also makes Japan look more attractive to jump in. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

You're right, it was 6,500 yen. I just edited my post. I wasn't thinking when I wrote that. 5,000 yen is the current single-jump price. Big discount down to 3,000 yen for the 30-ticket package! "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

I'm told that the reason is that they bought the plane outright and don't have to pay rental for it anymore. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

The language shouldn't be a barrier. Plenty of people there are native English speakers. And of the Japanese, one tandem master worked in Australia for many years, 2 other staff are fluent in English and another is reasonably good. Some other jumpers have excellent English skills. Most of the Japanese jumpers are willing to jump with the foreigners. And also, almost every skydiving word in Japanese is just a slightly mangled version of the English. The cost has come down since you were there. When I first visited, it used to be about 6,500 yen (~ US$65) per jump, but now it's 5,000 yen (~ US$50) and if you buy 30 or more tickets, it's only 3,000 (~ US$30) yen each. Don't forget the 30,000 yen to sign up, though. Gear rental is 2,000 yen per jump plus 1,000 yen if you want them to pack for you. The reason you have to apply 1 week before you want to jump is because of government regulations and insurance registration. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

Tokyo Skydiving Club, not Skydive Japan. I jump there. If you can pack quickly and can stay for the whole day, 4 jumps is entirely reasonable. I'm a slow packer on my new gear and go home early (bus), so I get 2-3 in a day. We are closed because of the fatality, but the hope is to open again this weekend. I'd imagine it could be a while before you get a response, they must be backed up with stuff at the moment. The LZ is Elsinore-shaped, but not as big. It's not as long and not as wide, but still plenty of room to land. Because it's shaped like a runway, there are only 2 directions you can land. A cross-directional landing would not be recommended or looked kindly upon by the staff. There's a 30,000 yen (about US$300 at current rates) annual membership fee. I'm not sure if single-day jumpers need to pay it or if there's a reduced rate, but you need to apply 1 week before you want to jump. This is my first year in the club, so I don't know about the hours or conditions in the winter holiday period. You can ask more questions here or PM me. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth