crwmike

Well, Chuck, perhaps you don't realize how deeply offensie the CRW Elite have been to those who believe CRW (not CF!) should be about smiles and laughter and irreverency. The Children of a Lesser Dog (aka the Dirty Dozen) have subscribed to the 'chat' list where everything CRW related (i.e. life) is discussed. If anyone wants to join the bonfire send wendy and email and she will put you on the crwchat list (she provided a majordomo command to do this but I don't seem to quite get the hang of that majordomo stuff). Nina, I should have provided you an answer more quickly. (Well, better better to copulate than never). I have no idea what the requirements are. Michael DD-1

Nothing wrong with having little experience ...as long as you dont't give advice because it seems logical or you researched it. Salt is insufficient seasoning. Michael

Sounds like you picked up a hijacker.

QuoteThe Eloy boogie marked the end of my involvement in skydiving. I will still do rigging work, but I suspect that I won’t get much work since I don’t go to the DZ’s anymore. I am also stepping down as a Moderator here on DZ.com. I feel it is better to go out now than wait until I have outlived my usefulness. Thanks to everyone. Take care all, Derek Peace out, brother. Your leaving dilutes the moderator gene pool greatly. Michael

I just count to three and pull

Varies considerably. Depends on the individual and who you're doing it with. If you are learning with a mega-experienced CRWDog, one doesn't need much experience at all. The Dark side calls another one Michael

QuoteIt is like Kramer said another aspect of the sport. Done correctly it can be as safe as skydiving can get. I have probabley 2,500 hook turns...I have yet to break anything but my pride and I tore a Jump suit once. The people who get hurt doing "hook turns" are the guys that try to progress faster than their skills...Quote ...and people who lose awareness of traffic? You both made a mistake. Glad you pulled it out. BSBD, Michael

I don't see it as a judgmental attitude. After I relized she was not a troll, it was easy to see the poster was someone reaching out for help. She was a person in trouble, who was indeed, crying for out for help. I won't fault someone for that (or fault someone else for realizing it and stating it). I deal with death several times a month. I understand emotions run ...weird. One of the reasons ritualistic behaviors are so prevalent surrounding death is that sticking to ritualistic responses comforts many and threaten few. I appreciate someone who can move outside that to openly and freely share their real thoughts. Me? I just listen and wait for a time the healing can start. Goodby Sister. Blue Skies! Michael

Damn, that sure did sound pretty. I agree with the 3-ish second delay. Only time I did more is when I exited to see my slot (23rd) almost formed. Wouldn't have time to dick around with spirals, so I did 10 sec (ouch!). The concept of wing groups (or layers) is a good one. Wing times the approach, then his lockup/lockup/lockup/lockup fly in like spreading creamy peanut butter. This 'layer' should form right out of the plane and work back as a group. CRW Skies, Michhael

I agree with that!

On your way to whatever afterlife that might exist, I hope you have some consolation in that you showed that rude sumbitch ...by ignoring the information. Oh my! I've occasionally seen this in trauma/resusitation. Usually some little princess who places her own view of propriety (and thus her societally approved control over others) over the life hanging in the balance. At least in skydiving, it's more than likely just your own life. Michael

That's the way it works in the 'real' world. In skydiving, I would hold the fault to be yours for refusing to hear valuable information just because it wasn't sugar coated. A valid message is a valid message. Look past the delivery and then decide if it is bullshit or not. Life is short. Seems a shame to further limit the experience by ignoring everything that isn't wrapped up all pretty with a bow and all. Michael While I'm here ... Vonnovack typically shows an admirable amount of restraint in leaving skydivers alone to say what they choose, but his deleting Ron's post for posting 'private PM's' is bullshit. He didn't attribute the author. What if he had just posted what he had been told, face to face, at the DZ?. It goes back to my first point. Delete his post for the substance of it, or leave it alone.

Courtesy of Kevin Keenan: The Xtreme Skydivers of Puerto Rico will be having their annual Boogie next year on Feb. 11 - 15. This "Party in Paradise" will be supported by aircraft from Crosskeys DZ - a Skyvan and a Super Otter. The DZ is located near Humacao, on the Southeast coast of Puerto Rico, with great scenery and a beautiful view of the blue Caribbean and neighboring islands. It's sunny and warm, and you'll love it. For all of us CRWDogs, Mike Lewis will be on hand for CRW organizing as well as Mark Kruse from Crosskeys. Guy Wright will be organizing freefall RW jumps and Monkey Claw will be doing freefly jumps. As you can see, there will be something for everyone - and those who go both (or more) ways will be well provided for. There will also be a lot to do on the island, such as jungle hikes, cave exploration, SCUBA trips, etc. The Xtreme Skydivers web site is at: http://xtremedivers.com/ This site has all the info available on location, lodging, etc. For more info, call 787-852-5757 or 786-512-6215 or e-mail jason@xtremedivers.com See you there. Kevin K.

I jump with four ...two jacks and two slightly smaller metal handle knives. Used one once to cut a canopy (not mine :) off my foot at the request of the other jumper. If I were him, I would have opted for cutaway and reserve, but it was his call. Michael

I suspect Raeford will be an exception. No, I don't believe rules are in widely in place. They will be. Just give it time. Hell, I know several DZ's where we can't bring somebody to pack for us. cause it infringes on the local packer's income. At small Cessna dropzones, like the one my dad owns and operates in Alabama, when you get the requisite experience you are expected to get your ratings so that you can give back to the sport. Everyone benefits in that model. We disagree on your last statement. My feelingsabout giving them sonsabitches more of my are deep and long standing. An example. In '92 I docked 36th to close the tail of a diamond. Thought it was a pretty cool dive, so I got the paperwork and signatures to get my CCS. It's still in my desk drawer. I pretty much have to give them membership dues but I'm not sending OUR USPA more money. It's not my intent to be personally offensive here, but it still seems to me the pro coach camp is pretty much filled with people in the business of skydiving. Follow the money. Michael

When I see someone attempt to obfuscate a pretty simple issue, I immediate become suspicious of their motives and their ethics ...and that, brother, pretty much shoots your advocacy for the coach 'rating' to hell and back. Come on, Dave. You might as well have included milage allowances for travel to and from the DZ. Based on numerous converstions over the years, I'd guesstimate that about 8 out of 10 tandem masters express much the same views as you. Observing their limited communication and interaction with their 'student' few even come close. Let's assume you are in the minority and actually do what you claim (good on ya!), but back to the coach issue ... Mega experienced skydivers are prohibited from jumping with and teaching novices because it infringes on the protected turf of the business of skydiving. If you don't see that, you either can't or won't. For the other poster who indicated it was a simple matter of the S&TA issuing a waiver ...won't happen much longer. With notable exceptions we don't have too many S&TA's who will take bread off the table of the DZO. They are pretty much chosen because their hearts and minds are in the 'right' place ...and incidently have a bit of experience and technical knowledge. Wait a small number of years, and you'll see this type of waiver about as common as one allowing the mega-experienced to take up a tandem. Safety issue?? Follow the money, Dave. It seldom leads you astray. Well ...damn, why didn't we think of that? Don't be impatient, son. Give it a little time. It's a new business and is barely off the ground. Peace, Michael

To be honest, I see you as introducing them to a great carnival ride rather than teaching and sharing with them the depth and beauty of skydiving, but that's another issue. I don't know you and have never been to your home DZ. Thus, I have no call there. My point, in general, is that I see many who are involved in the commerce of skydiving lining up on 'coach program is better than sliced bread' side of the issue. Your novices are paying more than double the price of their jump in order to jump with someone (wait a bit, and watch the price increase as the angles are figured). The restriction on safe, experienced skydivers jumping with novices is first and foremost a protection of a franchise. Again, I really don't see how you can deny that. I do respect your faith in your home DZ, but only in the sense and to the extent that I respect your theory that your wife is beautiful and your children smart. (apologies to Mr. Menken) Michael For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. --Henry Louis Mencken (1880-1956)

Absent hard numbers, I look at a couple of things. First, look at the people involved. On one side of the argument we have people who are entenched in the commerce of skydiving. I see lots of tandem ride operators who think the coach ticket as a good thing for skydiving. Questioning the 'rating' I see a bunch of skydivers who skydive for the beauty and joy of it. People who freely give of their time and expertise to novices. Now look at intent. Coming out of OUR USPA is a consisent line of decisions, rules and restrictions with financial gain being the common thread. When trying to track the truth here ...follow the money!. Can one make their living selling tandem rides and still keep the beauty of skydiving in their heart ...possible but not bloody likely. Can someone with a coach rating do this? For now, yeah, I think quite a few do and OUR USPA leaves these people no choice but to get the 'rating'. The rating is new enough that it hasn't been hardened in the money machine ...yet. That time is coming, however. Just give you guys a little time to work the angles for maximum profit. What individual skydivers choose to do will always vary and I would at least like to believe there are tandem freight haulers out there who have retained the beauty and honor of skydiving. The system is a money making machine with everything else having lesser value. I really don't see how you can look at where skydiving has gone in the past decade and deny that. Michael

The pursuit of a record can sometimes obscure the reasons why we do what we do. I hope we all remember that we do this for fun, laughter and mostly ....brightly, brightly and with beauty! All CRW that keeps this in mind deserves a ...HOW BOUT THEM TOADS!?!? Michael

That's the way to do it. I was an office manager for five years at a busy Tandem DZ. Out of all the Tandem JMs only one would share his tips with us in the office by buying us lunch. Where do you draw the line for tipping. Afterall, I would bust my ass to make sure the students got all the paper work done correct, and manifested. That's not easy in itself, having to figure out loads, JMs, are the rigs packed, do they need video, etc. What about the pilot that gave the tandem student a nice ride to altitude? What about that hard working packer? If JMs get tips, they need to spread it around, just like waitress do at restaurants, splitting their tips with the bartender and cook. That's the way I did it any way when I was a waitress. Ah, my beloved skydiving. "The sun and the moon and the stars would have disappeared long ago ...had they happened to be within the reach of predatory human hands" -- Havelock Ellis, The Dance of Life, 1923 Michael

I totally agree with that! However, if someone I took had a great experience and they want to toss a little extra something my way, then I'm not going to stop them. If its a lot (doubtful) then I'll see if they'd rather just take that money and put it down for another skydive in Manifest. Honestly, the coolest thing was the guy that gave me the cigar. He stuck around the rest of the day and hung out, watching the jumping and such. At the end of the day, we grabed some beer went outside the hanger and smoked our cigars, chatting about skydiving and all sorts of stuff. That was most definately kick-ass! Oh, he's been back and is going through AFF with us now, too. Good story. You know, this used to happen every weekend. Thing was, our students were well met. We spent the day teaching them, learned their names, took them to lunch and invited them to hang around the bonfire with us. I'm not jumping your shit, personally. You work within a system that ...well certainly doesn't promote this anymore. Michael

If one's ethic is that they are providing a tourist ride, then it's OK. If's one's ethic is to share and teach something they love, it most definitely is not OK. Michael

I am thoroughly fucking impressed!!!! If I ever grow up, I hope I'm as tough as Jay. YOU DA MAN!!! Michael

Depends on the deployment system and canopy. My PD Lightning with a tail pocket would open so damn fast, going in might be the less painful death. All kidding aside and assuming unharmed doesn't include 'very unhappy' (it won't be pretty but you'll be able to walk away from it) ...around 150 ft. Survivable (maybe) and you'll be able to painfully 'walk it out' ..100 ft. Also, can you repack a wet chute and expect it to work 4 hours later wet? Absolutely! Michael