OHCHUTE

I've often wondered about "situation on the ground." Most know any sitution is "on the ground" but is this phrase used to delineate between ground, sea and air? It really bugs me that a general will say: the situation on the ground in Iraq is..... When the general might say: the situation on the bed in Iraq is, or the situation in the closet is, or the situation in my Humvee is or ON MY DESK OR UNDER IT etc., might be more fitting as they must not give a holly fck what the situation is anywhere else unless of course there is no bed or desk that would make "on the ground applicable." In that instance, the phase is perfectly acceptable including "boots on the ground," donned or nearby where the situation is occuring.

Flight instructors are Skygods and know everything. In case no one noticed. They are better then anyone else. offtopic: not sure if you EVER want to join an airline but with this attitude will be REALLY hard to join and survive. The conversations I was having with others were productive and successful and if you were reading along you would have noted the conversation had pretty much ended. Your comment is off topic. Not only that it's not true. Just because I have control over my life does not make me a God. Yes as a flight instructor I might be better disposed to knowing what questions to ask. As an independent thinker, not dependent on handouts, I can choose what instruction I want to receive, pick instructors or schools. In this case I was qualifying information, a normal process for me to ensure survival in this sport, a good thing that obviously you think is a bad idea. You've offered nothing. And I think any jump instructor who has read this thread in its entirety would agree with me. And thanks again for those who stayed on topic and discussed the matter. Happy Skydiving!

Regardless of whether a person decides to don their Reynolds Wrap hat and assume bias in the article, its conclusions match the pre-election predictions as well as the outcome. While this may have come as a shock to some in the Republican Party such as Turd Blossom and Rush Limbaugh, it was not a surprise to anyone who realized you can no longer insult women, blacks and latinos and have a prayer at winning. You can no longer reject out of hand 47% of the population and have a hope of winning. You can no longer represent the 1% and hope to have 50.01% show up to support you back. Yet the Republican Party attempted to do all of the above. Surprise . . . they lost. I would not go a far as you in claiming they attempted to discredit people. Romney simply was not that good of a candidate. OBAMA's team branded him early to the likeness of the monopolists (Rocky, Mellon Carnegie) before they became philanthropists. Rich greedy white guy the same thing Teddy Roosevelt painted them to break up the trusts. This has all been done before. This is not news. Funny but all the rich white guys finally decided to give away all their money to the tune of billions to build much of what this country is today. They built libraries, national parks etc. They spearheaded a middle class like no other fueled by innovation and hard work. They provided opportunity and a transportation system. America became strong. Now, our health care cost more than our GDP and the Russians are carrying our people to space. Good Luck loosing the rich guy.

IMHO i. e. In my humble opinion. I already know your opinion so you don't need to tell me it is your opinion and how humble you think your opinion is as I might have an opinion that your opinion is not so humble. IMHO totally unnecessary.

It's been around awhile. Did you recognize Jay Stokes? ..and no...Jay does NOT have the perfect arch. What school is this or is this just a training video?

Plesae note: irregardless [sic] is non standard English. Use regardless.

You introduced "gaming the system." I'm not sure what you mean by that. In any event, attempting to label an objective has no consequence as the objective remains the same. Here an example: OBJECTIVE-- get two miles down the river in a boat. Here are your choices: 1. boat with holes, but looks good great lines, I like it, has wiskey 2. boat with no holes, looks godawful, I really don't like it and there is no booze. Now you might like 1, but how in the hell could you ever get in a boat with holes. Unless of course you like wiskey and having a drink is better than reaching your objective. Maybe that is called gaming the system, I don't know but Obama had holes (not too good leadership holes), we know not what holes Romney had, would have had etc but getting in a boat with no holes might have been a better solution.

I have to commend billvon for allowing me and another person to end a conversation. I started the thread but someone else got it off topic. It was really good there was no intervention. I'd recommend conversations go as they may until there are personal attacks and only warnings at that time. If personal attacks continue then shut it down. Trying to edit threads will be a nightmare for the moderators. I think the best think to do is to advise not to respond to those off topic, this way there will be no off topic talks that will continue.

Yes I know OBAMA and Romney were not equally opposite. Obama had the benefit of being an incumbant with prior experience of electability. So let me ask you this. If you personally didn't want OBAMA to be re- elected, for any reason, what would have been your choice to accomplish that goal?

It goes back to what you want. Each holds his own idea about that. If you think you don't want OBAMA to continue then the BEST solution to achieve that end was to vote for Romney as the whole world knew Johnson never held a chance to stop OBAMA. And to show up to prevent OBAMA from re-election. It's not gaming the system, it's doing what is necessary to reach your individual objective. Voting is a private matter right? The vote was for re-election. OBAMA was not a new candidate hence the matter at hand was: do you want OBAMA to continue or not. We learned what people wanted.

I'm not missing anything, its all in how you look at what you want. He has acutally 2 choices that he wants. He was for: 1, Johnson, but if Johnson failed he was satisfied with OBAMA. A vote for Johnson would not have produced a favorable vote for Romney that an exact vote for Romney would have produced. They talked alot about this, that Johnson pulled votes away from Romney. Now in the case of "I don't want OBAMA to continue" there is only one choice--Romney. As a vote for Johnson to get Romney wouldn't make any sense. He said if he didn't vote for Johnson he would have voted for OBAMA. You can want something but when it is nearly impossible to get it, you bet next best choice and he did that. I know he wanted Johnson, but lets face it, that wasn't going to happen. A vote for Johnson helped OBAMA win.

Should read "MSL" Mean Sea Level. Sorry for the typo.

No queston G. Johnston was better than Mitty but a vote for Johnston was a vote for OBAMA. SO THAT's WHAT HAPPENED? Plenty of white guys but they just we're not organized enough to win the election. You need to stick together to win. The single reason to have voted for Mitt was to not let OBAMA to continue! Jeesh, not too hard to figure out. Didn't you think that you vote wouldn't count if you voted for Johnson? Yikes! Who do I need to stick with in order to "win"? And what part of "not one single reason to vote for him (vs against Obama)" was unclear? Romney never tried to sell me anything that sounded worth buying, so my vote wasn't his to lose. I happen to like individual liberty (thus the Johnson vote), so if it'd had been just Romney and Obama on the ticket, with no option to write-in, I'd have gone for Obama. Same poor economic plan, but less religous nonsense. Blues, Dave OK, if you were for OBAMA then a vote for Johnson was the right choice. You got what you wanted--OBAMA. Makes sense. Now if you were not for OBAMA continuing--wrong choice. Thanks for explaining.

No queston G. Johnston was better than Mitty but a vote for Johnston was a vote for OBAMA. SO THAT's WHAT HAPPENED? Plenty of white guys but they just we're not organized enough to win the election. You need to stick together to win. The single reason to have voted for Mitt was to not let OBAMA to continue! Jeesh, not too hard to figure out. Didn't you think that you vote wouldn't count if you voted for Johnson? Yikes!

Searching. Ooops, should have searched before posting. Thanks so much.

What you're going to jump is up to the discretion of your instructor after they meet you and spend the day training you. Factors will be the weather, field elevation, and available equipment. If you were my student, and your body weight was 215 lbs, I would not have jump anything smaller than a 280 for a first jump. Once you add 30 lbs of gear and clothing, your exit weight will be pushing 250lbs, and a 280 would be my choice at my DZ (field elevation 980ft msl). Perfect. Thanks Dave for supplying the information. I will most definitely talk to my instructor about any recommended chute size considerably less than what has been suggested by you and others. Best regards-- OHCHUTE

Head to toe, hands feet, what do you recommend for clothing? Just wondering.

Just because you didn't get the answer you wanted doesn't mean you didn't get the right answer. You can argue your points with me all you want, but if it's about skydiving, you're just not going to win. Again, I ask you, as an accomplished aviation professional, to think for a moment about the wealth of knowledge and experience that have in flying, and then realize that I have an equal amount of that with regards to skydiving. Now consider if a non-pilot (or possibly a skydiver) was trying to tell you about the best way to do anything involving flying airplanes. Crazy, right? That's right, and if you wanted to do a tandem, which is the equivialnt to dual instruction, I would say read or think anything you want before your jump, because your instructor will be strapped to you the whole time and will take care of any 'mistakes' you will make. Let's say you were not offering dual instruction, just some sim time and than a solo flight. The instruction you would have to give would be more in-depth, more specific, and all it would do is slow down the process if you need to 're-teach' mistaken notions that the student had when they walked in the door. It's a different world. I know this because I am an expert skydiver and a student pilot. One of the best lessons I learned from skydiving is that being an expert in one thing has no bearing on your standing in another area. We see new jumpers who try to progress too quickly all the time, and often times their defense is that they are an 'expert' motorcycle racer or snowbarder, and that they're used to 'high speed' or 'extreme' situations, and almost always, we see that this is no help to them in the sky. The same goes for pilots. There are some things you may understand better, or quicker than non-pilot when it comes to jumping, but the operative word there is 'may'. Still, you've not offered anything I don't already know. Of course instruction during tandum is far differnt than AFF. You are an experienced jumper yet you say I may not have gotten the right information. Well all the information is written here and based on that information, as an experienced jumper was I provided accurate information about the size chute i should wear on my first jump? Simple question. Dave, I'm not asking for a college paper here just a number. Here I'll make it easy for you: 180,190,200,210,220,230,240,250,260,270,280,300, Circus Tent. Just type three keys so that we can end this honorably without a lot of BS and if you can't do that then we really are done talking. I'm saying 260 which invited further discussion at the DZ with the guy who recommended 230

Just not about student gear, that one never crossed your mind. How important could a parachute be to making a skydive? Which qualifies as instruction, so you did indeed recieve instruction. As I stated, due to the high number of 'unknowns', the intent of the jump, the gear being used, 'Clear plane and pull the handle' is the best prep you can get. Sport skydiving is more deliberate, and involves more equipment and systems you need to consider before making a jump. You are hopeless. Look you didn't read the thread. I did ask about student gear . He recommended a 230, the reason I asked the question to begin with. Now you're not adding one thing I don't already know. And you never supplied information that was asked for. Here's what I've learned. Only discuss things with those who answer questions, and ignore those who don't. Goodbye!

You're done. Other people who don't think they're already 'ahead of the curve' despite not having made jump #1 are still reading. While your mind is closed, theirs is not, so I will continue. Case in point - toasty warm gloves had been linked to several fatal accidents where the lack of feel prevented the jumper from pulling their handles in a timely fashion. Lucky for you, no instructor would ever let you jump with gloves that would impair your ability to save your life, but that is a prime example of what you don't know. No instruction? Any aerobatic instructor woth a damn would have told you the exit command, to clear the aircraft before pulling the ripcord, and where the ripcord is located. To me, that sounds like instruction. Beyond that there is no way to instruct you further, as the circumstances of your jump will be unknown. The altitude, attitude and condition of the aircraft are all unknown, but assuredly they will not be idea (otherwise you would not be jumping). Sport parachuting is another story. Many of the 'unknowns' involved in an emergency bail-out are 'known', and can be accoutned for and you can conduct yourself in such a way to minimize the irsk to yourself and others by properly accounting for these factors. Like I said, there's more to than you realize. I have to say, I'm shocked to read this. Go back, and read your words, and replace 'skydiving' with 'flying' and think about what you would think if a guy with zero time was saying them. "I've done a ton of research online, I already know who to preflight a plane, the take-off checklist, and how to do touch-and-goes. It's just staying in the pattern, it's not that hard. I haven't flown yet, but I feel I'm ahead of the curve." What sort of response do you think that would get from high-time, expert level pilots? The 5th ranked aerobatic pilot in the US told me to clear the plane and pull the handle. He answered my question. Not go into some other discussion about my learning process. I'll show up with Mountaineering gloves meant for Everest that can barely hold a rope let alone be manuvered through a strap above my head. I do have a brain. I would like to learn more about wind chill and glove use as it is gettting cold outside and I'll probably jump when it is cold. If you were my flight student and came to me telling me you have a lot of information about flying I'd say: GOOD JOB, lets go flying. If you came to me wiith blinders on, never asking me a question, telling me you knew nothing I'd tell you to buy a book, go take a ground school, ask another instructor questions, view youtube video, talk to other pilots etc. and get back to me as if you didn't take the time to even learn anything shows you're not very interested in learning and you'd make a piss poor student. The reason I'd tell you this is for me, as a competent instructor I'd perfer you had knowledge. Plus I'm so good at instructing that if I detect that you've learned something incorrectly I'd be able to change that in seconds. Now go tell others they shouldn't be informed before going to the DZ, as it is not working for me. I've already been to the DZ and I asked a lot of questions there. May I suggest you re-read this thread. Perhaps you'll come to the same conclusion other more experienced skydivers have concluded: OHCHUTE has his answers, has made good decisions based upon the information he's received and is weill on his way to becoming a good student. Thanks guys! Thanks to those guys who actually answered my question. Have a great day.

I do suggest that, I have suggested that in the past, and will continue to suggest that in the future. What you do not realize that there are many different ways to do things in skydiving. Which way you choose depends on what equipment you're jumping, what plane you're jumping out of, who you're jumping with, who else is on the plane, what the weather is like, and where you are jumping. Any one of the above factors can make whatever you 'learned' on the internet the wrong choice, and a danger to yourself and others. The right idea is to go to the local DZ, and take the Frist Jump Course. Learn what they want to teach you, the way they want to teach it to you. They are the ones who will be jumping with you as a student and providing your equipement, so they know best exactly what to teach you (and what not to teach you). Skydiving is more complicated than it appears on the surface. Very small details can (and have) killed jumpers in the past, and worse, caused them to harm (or kill) others in the process. If you think it's on the same level as repairing the side mirror of your car, or grilling a salmon steak, I suggest you rethink your decison to take up skydiving. I'm a flight instructor and a learner. I'll decide what is best for me in learning anything. This is not a thread discussing training or learning. I asked a simple question and experienced jumpers, including instructors answered my questions and from those answers I've learned something and have already made decisions. I've posed those decisions. Some instructors emailed off line in answering the question. Since it is my life, I'll ask as many questions from anyone willing to supply me the answers I seek and based upon your responses and others, which offer no information whatsoever, about what I was seeking I don't have a clue why there is this continued conversation about what I should or should not do? If you want to discuss training, and learning wether online, inperson, self taught (I got no instruction whatsoever about parachuting from the aerobatic instructor in the Pitts, so any jump I might have done there would have been self taught etc,) then you might start your own thread about training techniques and what a prospective student (I'm not yet a student but I'm pretty far ahead in the learning curve IMHO) might do to prepare him or herself on the first jump including bringing a snow suit and toasty warm gloves to the DZ if it's cold outside! We're done.

Confirmed: billvon and those like him, who failed to answer a simply question about expendatures, believes the Federal Government should pay more for that same corn than it needs to, to feed the hungry. For me the corn discussion is over.

Your comparison is totally wrong. Corn in the cans are the same. DeMonte packs the store brand. And you still believe the federal gov't should pay more than it has to to feed the needy? No wonder our federal deficit is in the tank.

nonsense - you have a party that wants to spend everyone's money on a subjective and non-value added set of social goals for the express purpose to gain power while pretending it's for the public good and you have an entirely different party that wants to spend everyone's money on a different set of subjective and non-value added group of social goals for the express purpose to gain power while pretending it's for the public good what more could you ask for - something sincere and efficient?? No a party that is representative of property owners, tax payers. Middle class is sick of having to support the wealthy individual, the wealthy multi national corporation and the poor. Plus we're sick that the wealthy keep raising college tuitions so to fund the back side college debt security business. MIddle class needs its own representation. They are played by both the rep and dems as suckers. Both Romeny and Obama were catering to the middle class. We'll see who wins and looses. The wealthy will keep theirs and the poor will get more also. Middle class squeezed and we're tired of it. I guess you must be wealthy or poor right?