ChrisD

I want to add, again, that the manufacturer is the key entity, and in a position to field all of the questions and act as the central authority to have the last word so to speak with their equipment. Every incident, comment, and problem ends up at the manufacturers doorstep. It is not a perefect system. But because of this central feedback they make design and packing reccomendations. It is this vast body of information that most manufacturers have, that we don't, that drives innovation and safety. C That said it wouldn't surprize me if packing changes or perhaps better said somebody might find a more suitable method as time marches on? It might also be benificial to actually define exactly what you mean by "Flat Packing," cause in many peoples eyes they all start off as a pro-pack and then on the table or ground turn into a flat pack as it is tweaked or pushed into position. Line placement, having the center hole? Is what is on everyones mind as the first priority. If you read the manuals, they are all available on line, there are differences in how packing a reserve is described. But the underlying goal is the same. It would be interesting if any of the manufacturers could share some of the things they have learned and the reasons behind them? But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

How big, long was this bolt?

The skydiving public is asking for "adjustable activation altitudes." C This is coming regardless of marketing retoric. Does anyone have any response that is on target? Once again, and I feel, and this is my opinion, feel free to crucify me at will... We still need the answere to the question about Vigil and adjustable activation altitudes and offsets expanded and clairified! The Cypres people have answered this question with the introduction of new feature. I really don't nor am I playing foavorites here...I really belive that the manuals for both of these devices can be better! And as consumers we have a right to ask for more! C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

The original poster asked: How do yo dissconnect your main from the container." I was the only one to respond with the correct answere. And that was: you need to pull your cutaway handle. Many have pointed out the motives of the: " faulty questioner." Skydiving is not something you learn from the internet, sorry, again, no apologies. If you can't stand the advice, that's your problem. Don't shoot the messenger because you don't like what you hear. Skydiving is about depending upon sticking to the plan and knowing what the other person is doing. If someone says they have a level of experience and then asks questions that not even a new newbie knows the answeres to then you face "the wrath." My life and the life of my friends depends upon this and I have every right to question anyone in any mannar I see fit to do so in order to achive this goal. As far as Vigil customer service, I have no intention to apologize, nor am I backtracking in any way when I point out their conduct. Here is a copy from the sticky section regarding their notice: "Vigil had also been criticized in these forums for having modified the behaviour of those newer Vigils (v2.50), without notifying users or changing the manual. You can't tell someone to RTFM if the manual has an inaccurate description of the product's behaviour." Apparently their are a few that feel that the pertinant point of "WITHOUT NOTIFYING USERS" is an acceptable way to do buisness? ya I guess it's ok to make changes and then retroactivly notify everyone. That kind of makes up for the shitty manuel in the first place? Many of us knew this was coming by this company, they played games in the first place, got called on it, and then they waited six monthes to make an anouncment. Apparently by waiting six months,...perhaps they thought we would forget? Well guess what, we didn't forget. But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

No, Harm was a good choice, we knew what you meant

In person is a totally different thing, I'm sorry you can't seem to understand this. Perhaps instead of doing, once again, the very thing you are so vocal about, you instead make a nice little video of how to "disconnect your canopy from the container." Tell ya what: Here goes: "Pull the fucking yellow thing on the right." Feel better, Ferris... Anyone???? C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Personally I would have preffered a question or perhapes even better: When was the last time you had a bail out drill from your local DZ jumpship? People actually do do this! Most of all of you out there could benifite greatly by riding in the right seat from time to time and actually try to fucking communicate with the jumper by the exit door! I guanentee you will be shaken and not stirred, it is an eye opening experience and one heck of a learning experience!!! I have no other comments about that other than this is one of those Hard Decisions, like the "Lifeboat" senario. I hope that no one will ever have to go through something like this. But my point remains that untill you start practicing this shit...reserch says: "Your literally wasting your time talking about it." !!! And in fact by not practicing as compared with just talking about this issue, you in fact may be making it worse. The airline data on survivable crashes has shown and continues to show that the majority of people act like sheep, clog the isles, and contribute to fatalities. I make no claim as to skydiving and this type of aircraft in flight issue but a lot of this is real scarey shit>>>> And the only demonstated solution that improves outcomes is actual practice!!! C ( And I don't want to even mention what happened in NY, in the stairwells,...people literally hit the lobby and stopped! Trap'ing hundreds on the stairs behind them!) But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

No. (I mean answereing your question about "...harm..." I mean it's a great helmet. And a must have for wind tunnel!) I could mention that it can be a distraction at the same time your getting out the door. Hearing is muffled. If you forget to put the visor down, not a big deal to just flip it down in freefall. Cept if your not stable yet while doing things with your arms? C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Your quote: "What you can do is teach enough for the student to make that one skydive safely. " What I'm sayin is that what you just said is not possible. This is my point and once this is understood by the jumping public / community this awarness will bring us all to a different place than the current state of affairs! No money in AFF so all had better find other reasons for teaching, this is the biggist offender and cause of one day jump courses. C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Your quote: "never bothered to learn that stuff..." Obliviously you have better things to do, no fucking apologies! C Go get a rigging book, read it and good riddance... Seriously, I just want to discorage anyone from attempting to play with their risers and loops by doing it from a coloring book. But yo seem determined to do it anyway. I also find it incredulous that you would even ask as compared with asking real people at your local DZ. (Would ya all say the same thing if it was your Neurosturgeon looking for the How to do it book?) Learning is always a worthy endevoer, practicing even better, knowing your students knowlege level and motivations: Important. But not this time. Hands on or not at all. Too easy to switch a riser or flunk the line continuity check, things like this are not in most canopy manuals, nor is how much force it takes to undo/ tighten toggle line attachments or how much force for slinks and or if other things need "tacking" or not. Go find competent other, (period.) There is absolutly no excuse for not knowing how to detach your main. No matter how ambiguous the question is phrased. But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

ya re-enter if you want

Francis? Wasent that the talking mule in those Mickey Rooney movies? Think a little harder folks, this means that using this type of logic... The "parachute user" is unable to tell if in fact his / her equipment is in proper order. Basically if you don't know how to do this simple procedure, HOW can yo than say with a straight face wheather or not they can tell if it is correctly hooked up in the first place? How can they notice any problems with their 3 rings, riseers, brake lines etc??????? So some of yo are saying they know enough to inspect their gear, but they can't change out a set of risers? I say if you don't know how these things work in the first place... You have no buisness handling a rig unless it has been handed to you by your rigger or AFF instuctors. If you don't know how it works then you cant inspect it for any issues and you are a danger to yourself and others... Just my 2 cents BR-549 HEE HAW.... [inline BR-549.jpg] C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

I don't think there was ever any name calling? But thanks for posting those links. THIS MEANS THAT FOR THE LAST 6 MONTHS, VIGIL CHANGED THE PARAMETERS OF THEIR UNITS AND DIDN'T NOTIFY THEIR CUSTOMERS UNTILL NOW! Gee customer service to the max? Did they change any fucking thing else? AND NOT BOTHER TO NOTIFY THE USERS? This is worse than the misinformation that Vigil packed a notice, (they did not) in the units where they made this change. How to inspire confidence and trust! Next AAD is a Cyprus... C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

I'm going to add that sometimes a rigger just wants to "Make your day." They, time permitting, want to feel needed and liked just because. If you give them something, then this may be viewed as "cheepining" their gesture. Many skydivers are in this because they get joy from their hobby and this could be one aspect of this. Many full time riggers aren't full time, except on the buzyist of days. And are just plain old glad to help! They may in fact want only to see a big smile and a hearty "Thank You ." C Some thoughts to ponder.... But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Nice picture. Taking this opportunity, once again, pilots are not practicing the stall spin at or near gross. Most of the published or here at DZ.com incidents have not been the takeoff type of disaster that is awaiting the un-current Cessna (whatever) Operator. Take a look at the picture TK has provided, notice the MAJOR front end damage in the majority of the pictures. This is indicative of the rapiditidy and speed of the stall spin crash. This is pilot error and I don't care if the engine quits! Your tame little aircraft at or near gross, when it stalls, falls from the sky like it is being pulled by God at over a thousand miles per hour! Every stall spin pilot survivor has said the same thing: "I never thought it would move that fast." Practice with stalls and spins is woefully LACKING in the commercial flying bizz. Because of money! These types of crashes have nothing to do with the number of hours you have! This is a skill that needs to be practiced period!! This is how to tell if you have a pilot dickhead: Question to pilot: "Have you practiced slow flight and stalls, passed the point of a full stall, in the last 60 days? Answere: "Yes." (This is great news.) Answere: "I've got 2000 hours, and have been flying since I was 12."

This is redonkulous... Your post says you have over 200 jumps, this implies that you have never cleaned, inspected or oiled your cutaway cables??? Ok, for the sake of argument, and I'm not picking on you here,

Some of it, I truly believe, just takes time. You can only absorb so much as a student/new jumper, which is why newbie instruction focuses on the most critical safety functions and attempts to control variables where possible. Many things in life are inherently dangerous. It's just that when faced with a sport that has the participants requiring to take some sort of action to be successfull as compared with sport that dosen't have any consequences this creates a mental schema that generates a lot of discussion. I want to point out once again that our current state of training isn't doing any favors for students, the biggist offender is the one day jump course. You just can't teach enough to encounter every possible contingency! A human cannot absorb nor can they perform to the level required to skydive safely as a bigginer. Safety is a function then of gear reliability and not training! You point out "you can only absorb so much...," I point out that it is not possible to absorb enough as a student and for many experienced as well. Another poser pointed out making statistical comparisons, it is not possible to make these types of comparisons. You can say things like driving to the DZ is dangerous. You can say Polo is dangerous. But you can not say Polo is more or less dangerous than skydiving. It is not statistically possible to make these types of comparisons and to those people that do you are just deluding yourselves and misleading others. You can say things like: "Skydiving is dangerous" (period.) The evidence is that people get hurt and some die because of this activity. You can say people die also resting in bed, thousands die in bed every day in the world! They didn't expect that outcome did they? Skydiving has this rep because of the stereotype of having to "PULL." You get on a skateboard and you don't have to pull? But people die on skateboards, in large numbers...the expectation of the activity then has a large measure of hidden expectations and demands associated with the particular activity's social construction in the social and public context dosent it? C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Like everything else... Something is worth what someone will pay for it. C Unless of course there is defacto price fixing, like the Whalmart effect... This is when there is no market pressure to lower your price, in effect if there is only a few places to purchase goods, then why try to beat the other guy, you would then only be shortchanging yourself. Kind of like the insurance, media, and so many other goods that are heavely advertised on TV. In other words profit is tied to market share, this is the reason why certian grossly overpriced products like auto insurance advertise so much. By the way they are some of the most profitable companies in this day and age. We have come a long way since as a nation we used to regulate these industries as a moral imperative, now the only imperative is greed and lot's of it. Thanks Regan and the Whalmart ilk for screwing Amerika up the sun don't shine in here hole! But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Kallend have you had a chance to review the peer reviewed study published in the International Journal of Modern Physics? Or is it invalidated because it was I who brought it to your attention? Maybe it's because I've been on vacation and had better things to do with my time. 1 peer reviewed study out of thousands doesn't change much. I did not know that was how science worked. If 10,000 peer reviewed studies showed the risk of cancer increased when you smoke, and one found that it didn't, would you believe the one because it suited you? THAT is what brenthutch does. K, I know you can fight, , your own battles, but don't you get it that no matter what yo say these 's don't care! you r wasting your time. C Logically then let the Koch brothers sponsered lemmings have their "fun." But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Can you please extend on this as my understanding of the language and what is written here makes me imagine things that I cannot even comprehend. This is not the first time this has happened. I have a very reliable source regarding another vidographer that has also gotten on an aircraft with out their rig,...borrowed the pilots rig, that alone an act of stupid, and then jumping! Word! C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

The poor bastard,

Not to be really off the deep end here, This is another example of how our elected officos have influenced society and not for the better. I don't want to get into a "Child Support" discussion but this particular point illustrates how society has changed and not by the vote or a democratic process. If you required support or welfare or whatever, food stamps, etc... The individual mearly applied for services and based upon eligibility would recive them or not. Yes there were abuses but overall the idea worked. Now in our society we have to find the Father, because he is responsible! Support has become a function of the person who has caused the issue in the first place. The system, our government now operates hands free so to speak in that they have changed the onus of the services from a function of society to a function of the individual. Our tax rates haven't gone down nor has our society demonstated the benifits of this shift in thinking or money. The IRS as in so many places in our government is running freely with this shift in thinking, most likely due to advances in information technology to make drastic changes for what is termed an "expediency." See Bastiat for what an shortcut in freedom and it's consequences does to a society. It's the same theory when it comes to using your drivers lic for a tool of punishment. In so many aspects of dealing with our governments, if you don't pay your support, taxes, parking fines, etc...your drivers lic is suspended! This is a great tool for collections! But shouldn't your drivers lic be an independent thing? What does your lic have to do with your finances? This is just another expediencey that weakens our morality and society in the name of enriching an already overly large government that is acountable only to themselves. They exsist to justify their own exsistance! Yes of course they also provide a neccesary function, but the "checks and balances" that our county was founded upon to limit tyranny no longer exsist! Remember always the bill of rights and our constitution's first parts were to limit the power of government, I guess those days are gone? But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."