Skyrad

You're in the UK, silly. California isn't visible from there. Oh.......That must be the Isle of Wight then When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

Let them eat cake When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

Do they treat you Canucs like common criminals as well or do you get treated like Americans? When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

Funny, I don't see Irans Navy sitting off the coast of California. When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

Yep! When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

I know of a case where a patient went to the doctors for his hemoroids and was given a prescription. They went to the Pharmacy and were given a lotion which they applied twice a day. After a week the patient went back to their GP (Family doctor) and complained that they were in terrible pain around their anus. The doctor asked to see the lotion as he was baffles that they had been given a lotion and not an ointment. It turns out his handwriting was so bad that the Pharmacy had given them a lotion for burning off warts! Owwch When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

Bottom line is the USA's star is fading and the Chineese are coming! China IS the new world superpower and is growing in power day by day. America has had its day and will have to get used to the fact that the Chineese will soon be the top dog not them. When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

He was a British diplomat, why should he be sent to an American militery prison? You do want the US to be in charge of the entire world don't you? The establishment did the same to Richard Tomlinson and David Shaler when they went off message. Tomlinson was even charicter assinated by a smear campaign in Italy and Oceana that he was a paedophile even though this was total fabrication. When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

So do you simply not belive that extraordinary rendition exists? Also these are not people that have been found guilty of anything. Some maybe terrorists but there are plenty by the sounds of it that aren't, do you advocate the torture and state sanctioned murder of innocent individuals without a trial or recourse to the law? When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

So the US is 'disapearing' thousands of people some of whom are kidnapped all apparently tortured some to death all without trial. Where are the rest? Has the US been operating quasi death camps? http://www.craigmurray.co.uk/archives/2006/11/missing_presume.html ...On 6 September, President George W Bush finally confirmed the existence of secret CIA jails such as the one that held Bashmilah. He added something chilling - a declaration that there were now "no terrorists in the CIA programme", that the many prisoners held with Bashmilah were all gone. It was a statement that hinted at something very dark - that the United States has "disappeared" hundreds of prisoners to an uncertain fate. Let's examine the arithmetic of this systematic disappearance. In the first years after the attacks of 11 September, thousands of Taliban or suspected terrorist suspects were captured. Just in Afghanistan, the US admitted processing more than 6,000 prisoners. Pakistan has said it handed over around 500 captives to the US; Iran said it sent 1,000 across the border to Afghanistan. Of all these, some were released and just over 700 ended up in Guantanamo, Cuba. But the simple act of subtraction shows that thousands are missing. More than five years after 9/11, where are they all? We know that many were rendered to foreign jails, both by the CIA and directly by the US military. But how many precisely? The answer is still classified. No audit of the fate of all these souls has ever been published. ...But why is it so sensitive to confirm what happened to these prisoners, to detail how many were transferred where and when? Why should a country receiving prisoners be so embarrassed? And why - when countries such as Egypt have come clean and said "yes, we received 70 to 80 prisoners rendered by the United States" - will the United States itself not confirm what it did? Despite admitting, in general, that the CIA carries out renditions, the US has yet to own up to a single specific case of transferring a prisoner to foreign custody. The explanation for the secrecy is one that most of the CIA officers involved in rendition will quite freely admit - a transfer to places such as Egypt or Uzbekistan (a country known for boiling prisoners alive) will inevitably involve torture. And knowingly sending a prisoner to face torture is, under both US and international law, an illegal act. Revealing the fate of the missing prisoners may be just too politically embarrassing. http://www.craigmurray.co.uk/archives/2006/05/torture_flights_2.html At a meeting in London in April 2002 chaired by John Scarlett — now head of MI6 — at the offices of the Joint Intelligence Committee and attended by CTIC officers, it was decided Bagram was not able to operate efficiently under such conditions. Even when detainees were transferred on the so-called Guantanamo Express to Cuba, the freight car cells at Bagram quickly filled up with new prisoners. Could another site — possibly several — be found? Scarlett had served in Moscow as an MI6 officer and recalled the existence of interrogation centres throughout the Soviet Union: he said the harshest had been those run by the KGB in Uzbekistan, Moldova and Poland. They could well serve CTIC’s purpose. Scarlett knew two senior officers of Polish military intelligence. They were invited to London to meet senior members of MI6 who had worked in Eastern Europe. CIA chief, George Tenet, now in the dying months of his tenure, sent several senior officials to attend. The Poles confirmed the KGB interrogation centres remained intact and were used by local security services to question criminals. CTIC already had its own aircraft and its senior officer at the meeting said there would be no problem in arranging overflying and refuelling rights in countries like Britain, Germany and Spain. The Polish officers identified airfields within the old Warsaw Pact that could be used as stopovers; the air base at Tazar in south-central Hungary, the Szczytno-Szymany base in Poland and the Markuleshti airfield in Moldova. During the Cold War they had all been used for secret operations by Warsaw Pact Special Forces. Interrogations had also been conducted there by the KGB. The operational plans sufficiently advanced, it was time for them to be politically rubber-stamped. Scarlett informed prime minister Tony Blair and Tenet briefed President Bush. Both quickly endorsed them. Recognising that Poland would have an important role to play as the refuelling point for all flights going to Uzbekistan — selected by CTIC to be the prime interrogation centre for the terrorists — it was essential to get the support of Leszek Miller, the country’s soon to be ousted prime minister who had staunchly supported the war on Iraq. He immediately agreed to allow the Szczytno-Szymany base to be used as CTIC’s prime refuelling point in Eastern Europe. The first flight began in May 2002. A Gulfstream V executive jet, registration N379P, landed at Northolt airport near London. It had a long history of being a staging post for CIA and MI6 officers en route to secret missions in Europe during the Cold War. Under what the Ministry of Defence later called "standing regulations", the only details listed of the Gulfstream flight were the names of the pilot and the aircraft owner. No record was made of any passengers on board. On a sunny Spring day the Gulfstream V and its unrecorded passengers flew from Northolt to the Szczytno-Szymany base in northern Poland still blanketed by winter snow. After refuelling, the aircraft flew on to Uzbekistan. Soon the executive jet was on a regular run, picking up detainees in Jakarta in Indonesia, Pakistan and Bagram. One was the Yemeni microbiologist Jamil Qasim Seed Mohammed, wanted by CTIC "in connection with the bombing of the USS Cole while the warship was at anchor off Aden". He was flown to Uzbekistan and his fate remains unknown. Another passenger was Muhammed Saad Madni, an Egyptian suspect who had worked with the British "shoe bomber" Richard Reid. He was "rendered" from Jakarta to Egypt. His fate also remains unknown. By December 2005, CTIC employed over 1,000 people: field officers, analysts, translators and liaison officers with foreign intelligence services. Their closest relationship remained with Mossad: its own agents in Iran, Pakistan, Syria and Afghanistan provided updates of the movements of terrorist suspects on the CTIC list. The decision as to who would be rendered was made by CTIC in conjunction with CIA director, Porter Goss. He was still doing so the day before he suddenly resigned in May 2006 — a victim of political manoeuvring in Washington. By then "rendition" had been fine-tuned. In May, 2006, CTIC officers were stationed in twenty-two countries around the globe to handle the arrests and transportation of suspects. They were usually picked up by the local security service and held in solitary confinement until they could be flown out to a designated "black site" — the CTIC in-house description of the interrogation centres. The decision as to which site a suspect should be sent was made by the senior CTIC officer on the spot. "If a strong psychological interrogation with some physical force is required, a detainee is flown to Jordan. If a suspect is to be interrogated in between periods of strong physical force, he is sent to Egypt. For the most severe of torture for information, he is sent to Uzbekistan where he is killed after he can reveal no more", a senior Mossad officer said. Craig Murray, when British ambassador to Uzbekistan, wrote in a memo to Jack Straw, Britain’s Foreign Secretary in November 2004: "The CIA chief in this country acknowledged to me that torture of those rendered includes the boiling in vats of prisoners". Murray was relieved of his post, labelled as "mentally unstable" and finally dismissed from the diplomatic service. By December 2005, he had become one of the first to publicly reveal some of the details of the rendition process. As a result he said he was threatened by Britain’s security services. When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

Airstrikes could be quite painful for the US pilots thanks to the latest Air defence system that Russia has just sold and delivered to Iran (along with the promise of more goodies if they want them.) When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

I think you have to shut it down at the source, the problem is not at the tip of the tentacle, it's in the centers of learning and dissemination. You either transform the message at it's source or you eliminate it. That is something we are poorly equipped as a society to accept as a solution. Even if you did the time to have acted was a few decades ago. This problem has metastasized beyond the point of even difficult solutions. Except that won't happen because the source is Saudi When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

Ok, so do you have any suggestions of the best way to deal with Wahabisim? When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

Don't forget the Communist regime of the Soviet Union or the Fascist regime of Spain. Wahabism may not be as far behind as you may think. It is a modern idology not an ancient one which has its roots more firmly placed in Marxist theory than in the Quran. The basic idea that world revolution will come through the actions of the revolutioary vanguard through violent action has nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with Marxism. When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

LMAO When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

We used to go marching off under crosses butchering infidels in the name of God, if it wasn't Christians killing non-Christians it was Catholics killing Protestants & vice-versa. I still see some of that stupidity lingering in places but by and large it's live & let live in the West and the sectarian idiots are seen for what they are. So what's the difference between them & us? Is it the faith or the radicalised indoctrination that pervades their society. How the heck do you extinguish this brushfire? IMHO Wahabism is just another symptom, eliminate it (if that's even possible) and you've only dealt with part of the problem. Agreed although I suspect that we might disagree on what the rest of the problem is. When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

And from a Muslim website http://www.shianews.com/hi/asia/news_id/0001727.php When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

LMAO When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

You got a camera in here or something??? When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

Maybe your friends but with friends like that.... When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

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LOL... Opps! Thought I was in SC When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

It is my firm belif that Wahabism is an evil perversion of Islam and I would like to see Wahabi Mosques in the UK closed and those that preach the hatred of Wahabism arrested and proscecuted wherever possible. All those from overseas regardless of what punishment they face in their country of origin deported. This creeping evil in the world needs to be erradicated. I'm so pissed off at the amount of twisted converts to Islam who are seduced by this evil perversion of Islam. I'd like to see Wahibisim attacked wherever is raises its ugly head. When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

Cool! I love fencing (Sabre) enjoy! When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

Maybe not, the body can't move and the lungs can't fill with breath but the brain can remain alive for about six seconds and it has been argued that pain can be felt through the trigeminal nerves. When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca