mrshutter45

I found the site where I got the pics.... http://gma.yahoo.com/photos/d-b-cooper-40-years-later-1322067445-slideshow/d-b-cooper-photo-1322066420.html The FBI pictures I saw were on this thread and appear to have been of somewhat better quality, or at least larger, than the ones found by Shutter on another site. Robert99 do you think those gauges can be found? I don't really understand the need for them if they were trying to replicate the actions? why not use the gauges in the cockpit as the pilot did? I'm sure they marked those readings as well. unless these were different from the panel gauges????? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I found the site where I got the pics.... http://gma.yahoo.com/photos/d-b-cooper-40-years-later-1322067445-slideshow/d-b-cooper-photo-1322066420.html "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I've had the pic for some time know. I have no idea where it came from. it was on a site that had 6 or 7 FBI pics. I think it had something to due with them ending the search.closing the camp down in 72 Testxyz.....this would be a question for the jumpers on here. I'm not to familiar with the DC-8. I don't know if you can safely jump from the side. the right speed I'm sure it's possible. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Yes. Do you see that black panel with three instruments on it which is mounted on the right side (looking to the rear) and which appears in the top center of the picture? Is it possible to enlarge that panel enough to read those instruments? I think one of them is going to be a clock (12 numbers) but I was never able to make sense of the other two. Robert99 Yes, I'm doing this right now, but the best I can do (probably) is show what they read. impossible to read the gauges numbers...... here is one pic.... the bottom gauge (needle) appears to be black or a different color than the two above? still working on different things with the pic... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

are you speaking of this photo? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Were the stairs locked or unlocked during these jumps? Was there turbulence to match the turbulence/icing Rataczak testified to? In other words, are the conditions the same. That is crucial. The oscillations of unlocked stairs everyone testified to the night of 11-14-71 were real. That condition was not fully duplicated, could not be duplicated, by the post-hijacking tests - (people are quick to point that out to me). they were unlocked, you can see them retract up, but not all the way up. Robert99 says this is due to the slower speed. seems to be a plausible answer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8ov77VMDy0 Quote Yes you can see the stairs pull up quickly once his weight is off them, then sort of float open part way. Dependent on forward velocity of the aircraft and air pressure, angle of air pressure on the stairs? On 11-24-71 they slam fully shut at least for an instant ... and slam fully shut during the FBI test (photo documentation). Cooper's weight and this person's weight (this video) evidently enough to overcome air pressure to bring the stairs full down long enough to get out ... the same in the FBI test. I wonder what the upward pressure on those stairs is at different v's ? Has Robt99 tried to estimate that ... ? (we touched this briefly once before). We need some numbers - I'm thinking the test might just be a little different. if not mistaken they pushed the sled down the stairs? this to me would cause a difference rather than one standing on it. seems it would have snapped or flung the door back up faster then just jumping off? they should of just let that guy jump that wanted too "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Were the stairs locked or unlocked during these jumps? Was there turbulence to match the turbulence/icing Rataczak testified to? In other words, are the conditions the same. That is crucial. The oscillations of unlocked stairs everyone testified to the night of 11-14-71 were real. That condition was not fully duplicated, could not be duplicated, by the post-hijacking tests - (people are quick to point that out to me). they were unlocked, you can see them retract up, but not all the way up. Robert99 says this is due to the slower speed. seems to be a plausible answer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8ov77VMDy0 "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I wonder how much difference there was with thew filming of the movie where the stuntman jumped off the stairs. the plane was going about 150. don't know if they were talking knots or MPH. I'm sure they did several jumps. here is a pic of the stuntman jumping. note they put the ripcord on the right... ckret Jan 10, 2008 I got a call yesterday from one of the guys who did the jumps from the 727 for the movie "Pursuit of DB Cooper" said they jumped at 150 knots and that was as fast as they would go. I don't know if the studio capped the speed or they did, but my impression from talking to him was 150 knots was as much as any of them wanted to jump at. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I can see Duane being with a call girl at the Titanium Lounge or the Leopard Lounge in Columbus on Nov 24, 1971 ... but not in a parachute jumping "through the hole of a 727" ! I am sure there is a Boeing memo about that! "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

well of course they had the stairs on them for the FBI test. cooper jumped off the stairs. the guys in the video clearly went down the slide and out of the plane. no reason to have stairs in the military operation. the railing would have caused trouble as well. they cleared it out in order to have a smooth slot for cargo exit. I doubt it was a big deal putting the plane back to spec. here is a pic of the plane used in the demonstration.... "Hell I don't even remember which arm had the tatoo on the forearm and which one was the upper arm. I am tired of trying to remember things! Time for me to take my nap - again! " according to Duane's prison record his arms were full of them... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

the plane is on the ground, he is giving a demonstration on how to exit. if you seen the video it's clear he is on the ground. the picture of the man exiting the plane is from the same 1968 video...... these two last diagrams should help you understand "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Jo, the rear stairs...95% are the rear door! they were removed in the SE Asia film documentation. you must understand the door and stairs are the same. there are approx 4 to 5 stairs that don't move. this is where the slide plate was added. over those few stairs. the door and majority of the rear steps were removed....... I don't know how much more clear I can be on this. look at this diagram and you will see two different locations for the stairs. the bulkhead door swings open out of the way Jo....separate door from the stairwell door. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Think about what you just said. The testing was done - the aft door was NOT removed just the stairs so they could slide the cargo out. In fact they could have had a slide over the stairs. The complete Aft way was NOT removed - just modified or altered to accommodate cargo going out the door and putting jumpers out the door faster! WHO did the modification. The authorities, Boeing and who were the mechanics who did the work for the modification? A lot of people involved in a lot of different ways. Jo, you can clearly see in the video the back part where the stairs are supposed to be are no longer there. it appears it was a voided area. they could close the bulkhead door and pressurize the plane when needed. I will get a pic for you..... if the stairs were in place, you would see them below the aircraft.....I believe several steps where part of the plane, while the rest where part of the door. this is why a ramp is seen. NO - you can see them sliding out and the cargo being slid out! The stairs was gone but the door was NOT...it became the conveyor for the cargo and the jumpers. Perhaps the extension was removed but the bottom part of the plane WAS not. Perhaps the stairs extented beyond the aft way. The closure was NOT removed at least not in what Snowman posted. They are sliding down and out! jo, you would have to drop the stairs in order to get out!!!! you could not put cargo weight on these stairs. it's very simple...they removed the whole door! this picture should help you understand. the red line is where the stairs are hinged to the plane. there are several stairs above that. this is where you see the "sliding" happen and where they installed metal over this portion of the stairs. the door was removed...end of story. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

pic #1 shows that the rear stairs are missing. pic #2 shows a jumper (blue circle) and the red line shows where the stairs should be. the rear stair were removed..... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Think about what you just said. The testing was done - the aft door was NOT removed just the stairs so they could slide the cargo out. In fact they could have had a slide over the stairs. The complete Aft way was NOT removed - just modified or altered to accommodate cargo going out the door and putting jumpers out the door faster! WHO did the modification. The authorities, Boeing and who were the mechanics who did the work for the modification? A lot of people involved in a lot of different ways. Jo, you can clearly see in the video the back part where the stairs are supposed to be are no longer there. it appears it was a voided area. they could close the bulkhead door and pressurize the plane when needed. I will get a pic for you..... if the stairs were in place, you would see them below the aircraft.....I believe several steps where part of the plane, while the rest where part of the door. this is why a ramp is seen. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Was the Cooper Vane only retrofitted to the 727s that were already in service or was it also incorporated into the production of new 727s? It would seem to be more logical to design an electrical switch to prevent the deliberate deployment of the stairs in flight in new production 727s. Robert99 Douglas DC 9 aircraft with ventral stairs were also equipped with Cooper vanes. The DC 9-21 used for skydiving at the 2006 World Free Fall Convention in Rantoul, Illinois had one installed, but since the rear pressure bulkhead door and the stairs had been removed to facilitate fast jumper exits, the vane, which was left in place, did not prevent jumps "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

On January 18, 1996 the Boston Globe, a daily newspaper published in Boston, Massachusetts carried a small article with the headline "Jet Stairs Deploy in Flight." A Reuters news item with a dateline of San Antonio, Texas gave a brief amount of the unusual in-flight incident: A Trans World Boeing 727 with 72 people aboard landed at San Antonio International Airport Tuesday night after the aircraft's rear stairs deployed in flight. TWA Flight 199 was flying from St. Louis to San Antonio when a cockpit warning light indicated that the stairs under the jet's tail engine had become unlocked, an airline spokesman said.... The pilot descended to 3,000 feet and depressurized the cabin so that the stairs, which are behind a bulkhead door in the rear of the aircraft, could be retracted. "A crew member reached around, grabbed the handle, and pulled, raising the stairs hydraulically," [the spokesman] said. A rope was tied around the handle to keep the stairs raised.... TWA policy requires that the rear stairs be lowered when an aircraft is on the ground as a safety precaution, and crews use the stairs to gain access. The airline is reviewing maintenance operations at St. Louis-Lambert International Airport. The jet was back in service yesterday. did we have complete failure. was the Cooper Vein on this as well? http://www.aero.com/publications/parachutes/9602/pc0296.htm "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

All good points Mr. Shutter. Sheridan Peterson who worked in technical documentation at Boeing arguably could have gained access to the flight test reports. He was a smoke jumper, expert skydiver, had made night jumps and had a huge grudge against the US Govt which he holds to this day. He just doesn't seem like a guy who would threaten to kill people just for money. He witnessed atrocities in Nam and abhors violence. His main screen name is Peacenik Pete. You'd be hard pressed to find a more qualified DBC as far as skills go AND he had at least some inside access to Boeing tech docs. The FBI interviewed him twice and only quit when his DNA didn't match the same they believe is Cooper's. 377 why did he have trouble with the stairs? it's a simple lever. the directions clearly show how easy it is? if he had access to documents, he shouldn't of had a problem? the questions come up again about knowledge of jumping. could Peterson of done this, sure, but would he have jumped the way Cooper did. (clothing) did he take the dummy chute to fool people? if he had a knife which obviously he did to cut the cord. why didn't he cut open the dummy chute according to reports a white canopy was inside. if he realized the chute was not operable why did he take it? I'm so on the fence about his knowledge...let me ask you this, would you have noticed the dummy chute? if I didn't know much about jumping I might have taken it by mistake. Matt told me a while back that a lot of jumpers don't use them, so we go in circles once again on his knowledge....the odds are 50/50 of him taking it by mistake or having knowledge it was inoperable??? BK I don't need a response on this...call Marla up and start matching your story to hers, you guys would make a good team...... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Bob, you have been asked many times to "fess up" why have someone else do it. as soon as Marla's story gains public knowledge of a possible cover up, you can rest assure I will alert every news outlet known of your little story. go ahead and wait it out, I'm in no rush "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

you didn't do anything Bob, stop adding to your story as you always do. Marla has now taken your story. perhaps we can get you into the spot light now. you are being whooped by a woman HA HA....... she is also claiming Nixon and airport security...look out buddy, the competition is moving in on ya....better go public...... I'm sure it won't take long for reporters to see your story as well as Marla's. better speak up before they find you hiding. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I was an avid skydiver and airplane nut in 1971. I also owned a huge 727 flight manual then. I couldn't see any way to jump from a 727. The flight manual gave no hints that the rear stairs could be safely deployed in flight. I assumed that they couldn't. I figured there must be a locking system that prevented the stairs from deploying after takeoff. Most airliners have "squat switches" that are triggered by landing gear strut compression and can be used to disable or enable systems. I had no idea that a stock airline 727 could be jumped in 1971. Jo had insisted to me that 727s were jumped in SE Asia. I was sceptical but did some searching and made contact with Dr. Joe Leeker at Univ of TX who had tons of info on CIA and Air America ops in that area. He confirmed the use of 727s for test airdrops over Thailand. Leeker had fantastically detailed records of CIA aircraft and ops during the Viet Nam war. He was very gracious about sharing info. Jo was right about 727s. http://www.utdallas.edu/library/specialcollections/hac/cataam/Leeker/aircraft/ I still think Cooper must have known that a 727 could be jumped. Without that knowledge he was very possibly entering an aluminum jail cell that would prevent his escape until landing. With my 727 knowledge and skydiving experience in 71 I never wound have tried what Cooper did because I could not be sure I could get out of the plane in flight. Not any of the cockpit crew nor anyone at NWA ops could could determine whether the plane could be safely flown stairs down. They had to call Boeing. Turns out Boeing knew because they had done extensive flight tests probably for the CIA. 377 the only problem I have with the testing in SE Asia is the fact of the stairs being removed. the rear door was used to pressurize the plane at will. it doesn't show or explain the stairs could be deployed. it appears that Boeing did do testing on the stairs while in flight, but how much of this was made public or how many in the company were aware of the testing? would this have been a well guarded secret, or would the typical guy on the manufacturing line know this? do we have to automatically expect Cooper to of known the stairs would deploy in flight? testing and criminal active share a certain bond, the word "hope" plays a role in testing and criminal activity. I know the stairs have accidentally opened in flight, but not sure on the date. if he read this he could of got his answer as well? the 727 that left DA Nang was so overloaded and damaged it shouldn't have been able to fly, but it did. I thought I saved the PDF I found while looking for the spacing and tire size, it did show a chart of what speed the stairs could be safely deployed and when they shouldn't. I have not been able to find this PDF. been looking off and on since I lost the data I can't remember what term I used in my search.... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

William Lloyd David Cooper Known “Bad Guy.” Born and lived in Canada. Able to finance (expensive) adventures in 1971 and 1972. Once lived in Portland, OR. Had reconstructive surgery on his face (confirmed). "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I haven't checked anything either. he is missing. here is the poster again....it's possible the FBI or US Marshal knew where he was at during the crime....don't know... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

now, Marla is claiming the CIA put him up to this correct. why would he have to go into hiding and lose touch with his family? why where they worried the money was marked and Marla Quotes "he just knew that it (the crime) was wrong" he would be free a clear if the CIA was involved. did the CIA pick him and Dewey over military trained people? why Dewey, why would the CIA use him. Bob Knoss also claims it was Nixon dealing with airport security....very similar???? she claims her father told her a lot about the crime, her mother supposedly knows about it. nothing about CIA? not every family is tight. I had two Uncles that I seen maybe 10 times. this was before I came to Florida in 77. never seen them since. when I see records of these guys all over the place, flags go up when someone claims they are in hiding. I have a real hard time buying the hiding part. ok Jo, but the first post was saying XYZ was promoting Marla, then you made the second post.....I don't see anything in my PM box? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

well, I thought a lot of signs showed up. body language tells different stories. she never kept her eye's on the person asking a question. she closed her eye's a lot as if to remember. the big one was when he asked her about the money and she grabbed her ear. this is usually a sign of deception. not that it happens to everyone, but it happened at the exact moment. the funny one was her getting Dewey's name spelled wrong, but she could of been nervous. .The FBI was supposed to give an update in early 2012? one has to wonder where the jump area is according to Marla. she stated on a phone interview he landed inside a 6 mile area 7 miles from the home of LD. The only record floating around at the time was the home in Vancouver who everyone thought was Marla's LD. if that was what she was referring too? if not it must of been in a different area than the original jump site that many believe is now wrong. if it was in a different area they would have had zero problems going back for the money. she stated he landed over farmland, and yet nobody found the money or chute? on farmland? this was because he was a surveyor, which in incorrect because he wasn't one in this time period. she said he was able to pin point this because he was a surveyor and knew the area. which area was this? Reno, Eugene, Sisters, Washington? this story is going on two years now and the FBI has said nothing. I find that a little strange. as for the CIA? look up a man's name on here of Bob Knoss. if you want to read a crazy story about the Cooper case gone CIA. he's your man. it's very possible Marla could of read his story, been on here for years..... he just made a post on the last page before this one..... here is the phone interview..... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI