mrshutter45

December 7, 1941............ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl2tHMcaLRk "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

You know something nobody else knows? Is she in danger fron nasturtiums and mums? Her family told Bruce she was fine. Maybe you and she could become good friends? How many Coffee, Tea or Me types of that era ended running to a convent?? she was already very Religious during that time period wasn't she? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I wasn't a big fan of the Who, but I'd never rank their music as just mediocre. It's a free world though. Some folks think Beethoven was a hack. To be fair, Meyer did say "...mediocre... most of the time" So maybe even Meyer liked the Who's music on occasion. DB Cooper must have had some favorite tunes. Wonder what they were? Jo thinks she knows. 377 DB Coopers likes music such as Free Bird- by Lynyrd Skynyrd, Free Falling- by Tom Petty, Jump- by Van Halen, Money-by Pink Floyd, Wanted dead or alive-by Bon Jovi and the ever so popular Rain Drops Keep Fallin On My Head- by BJ Thomas "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

try this test http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfhIuaD183I "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

well, it's bad enough we have different descriptions from eyewitnesses, we also have people matching photo's to the sketches, some have an exact match? I don't think the odds are that good on a exact match from sketch to photo. let's take a look at the suspects all together? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I agree with this approach - yours. This is why I say: we would have to talk to Tina to really know, but Tina was only one party contributing to the profile sketch. The sketches are an agreement between many witnesses, not just Tina. Does Geoff Gray single out Tina in his book for special treatment/description? Does Geoff speak to Tina's description of Cooper, or Tina particular role in the development of the FBI sketches? I think not, Does Gray single out Flo in the same manner? Evidently there was nothing in the files Geoff read to make singling these people out noteworthy.. The sketches, as Ckret explained, is a consensus among all of the witnesses which Ckret described as being in 'close agreement', as a whole. It does not rest on Tina alone, whatever her state. I fear this stuff about Tina's "state" is being used as a red herring (straw man) for a problem which did not exist in the first place, if you believe Ckret description of the 'process' which resulted in sketches. There is no actual evidence whatever that Tina was a 'babling idiot?' following the events, unable to function, and gave an erroneous description of Cooper. I am rather sure if Geoff Gray reading the files had picked that up he would have reported it - he did not. I ask myself: how would a physical anthropologist group these sketches and assess them, looking at them for consistency/reliability in desacribing physical parameters? To me they fall into three groups: (a) the original FBi sketches + Flo's independent sketch, (b) the single fuller faced sketch which shows different proportions, and (c) Geoff new sketch based on one witness. And there is no disagreement between all of the parties as to general height! So the veracity of the sketches does not rely on Tina's emotional state alone, if at all. And on the issue of height, there is no general disagreement. Consider for a moment what it would be if these sketches turned out to be 'very accurate'! I mean we are taken to the one extreme (not accurate) by a group of people - why not shift to the other extreme just for the sake of arguement, for a change! If these sketches were "very accurate" then we are looking for a guy who has very specific features, who has not been found to date. Something would have to explain that! The truth, may be somewhere in the middle ... with doomsday and the "sketch cliff" averted! Life may continue after all!

agreed, but IMO the PTSD had not set in on Tina right after the left the plane and spoke with the FBI, and whether she is suffering from it or not, nobody knows for sure. my observation is it's possible that Tina's perception is much different from Flo's, you don't need a traumatic event in order to have different conclusions to what someone has seen. you would think since Tina spent more time with him that she should have a good description, yet years later Flo says none of the sketches really looked like Cooper, which one is suffering a traumatic event, one or both? or did they both have a bad perception of describing Cooper? can we blame it on stress, or just bad judgement? I agree that this has probably damaged Tina over the years, but I'm not sold has to the amount of damage right after the crime, if that makes sense? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

"I think Dean Martin could have been the hijacker and she would not have been able to describe him. Her focus was not on him" can we really assume that Tina didn't pay any attention to Cooper's characteristics, due to stress, I can see this happening with a crime that is much shorter (Robbery, car jacking) most crimes are over in minutes giving less of a chance to ID the individual due to stress. this crime went on for hours and yet we still have different descriptions. one can still be intelligent, calm cool and collective and still be missing the perception of what they recall. this almost plays out as if Cooper hijacked the plane and 20 minutes later removed the stews before taking off, then one could understand why the descriptions were off, but hours with him boggles me in understanding differences description wise? I do understand the stress of the bomb going off, but nowhere have I read panic was in play. she was calm enough to light a cigarette for him, that's up close and personal. I think in IMO Flo had a better perception of recalling what she seen vs what Tina seen? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buhMdC7MO0U "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

you must have put the picture on here twice? this was the pic I was looking at, missing lower half. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Your point is well taken. My theory works if one assumes that the composite is accurate enough, and there doesn't seem to be much consensus on that. It amazes me that Tina talked to this guy for nearly 5 hours and she didn't come up with a more definitive composite. She had opporunity to study Cooper for hours. I'm just surprised the composite she came up with is not more defninitive. MeyerLouie don't forget Florence had another sketch made that is different from all the others, she claimed they really didn't look like him, round and round we goooooooooo "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

"That man had on some type of uniform - perhaps a music director's or band director or even a choir leader. The case appears to be one that would carry a musical instrument." Jo, if you are talking about the picture from Salt Lake, he does not have a case, he is carrying another jacket on a hanger, the black under his arm is a shadow "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Clyde Lewis 888-673-3700 Producers email producer@groundzeroradio.com "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I don't think he will resemble the drawing, it's all over the board with his age to hairstyle etc... I guess he could have been an employee from years before, who knows????? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

it's pretty simple Jo, just type Clyde Lewis on your Internet Explorer and everything is there you need "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Don't buy it airtwardo, not even for a second. This is probably a bigger deal than some white collar office crime. He would have to virtually isolate himself from everyone, everywhere at his place of employment to have any chance of not being recalled or remembered by someone, somewhere along the way. I say the chances of that are slim to none. I used to work for the Forest Service, I went days without seeing anyone at times, but somewhere, sometime, along the way, I had to run into and interact with a somebody. MeyerLouie The only people he would need to worry about being recognized by would have been the passengers & crew of THAT particular flight... No a real stretch to see that would be highly possible. I don't know how the paperwork was handled back in '71, but today anyone working as flight or cabin crew and quite easily look up who will be working any scheduled flight a month in advance. Not to mention IF D.B. were a NWA employee... if he simply recognized anyone on-board the aircraft he would most likely abort the plan. In fact who's to say he hadn't done that on prior 'dry-runs'. didn't the FBI screen NWA employees? if he made the jump he wouldn't be missing, if he died in the jump, NWA was short one employee fitting the description? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

"Will you accept that KC is excluded based on a no-match to the fingerprints/DNA that the FBI has? " I don't know if any accept this, Marla and Jo both claim the DNA might not be Coopers, which could be true, same for the fingerprints. giant loop hole "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

what ever you say "truth seeker" what ever you say.... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

you seem to have "missed" taking your medication again!! "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

"I read somewhere that most 'white collar theft' takes place at the perps place of employment" very true, but those crimes are found out after the fact and don't draw attention until after the crime was committed "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

like I said....no further comment....no need..got it? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

knots is what we are looking for when speaking of above ground! can we stay on this path? second time now! 175mph =156.4157! "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Southern folk laugh at your adventures, stuck in the mountains for a month is funny down in these parts, I refuse to bout with you back and forth as others have done, your past has nothing to do with Aeronautics nor can you be at level with those you do battle with! accomplishments such as books for children should send shivers down the spine of the intellect of most of the minds on this thread? please give some sort of background other than your accomplishment towards the needed?? me? I'm just a dumb southern boy who most of the time will ask the right questions, I got's no college degree, butts I try to act like I do! got a problem with that? please advise! "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

perhaps we could exchange one's accomplishments? brief history of 99, taken from Sluggo's site. Robert Nicholson is a retired Aeronautical Engineer and also a retired general aviation power and sailplane pilot with 750+ hours of powered aircraft time and 1000+ hours of sailplane time (in exactly 1000 sailplane flights). Upon retiring, he held an FAA Commercial Pilot Certificate with private privileges for airplanes and commercial privileges for sailplanes. He also held an FAA Ground Instructor Certificate with Advanced and Instrument Ratings. In the classical tradition, he started learning to fly at the age of 15, soloed a Piper Cub at the age of 16, and received his Private Certificate for powered aircraft at the age of 17. One of the three Piper Cubs he trained in is now suspended over the right wing of the Boeing 707 prototype (the "dash 80") at the National Air and Space Museum Annex on the east side of Dulles International Airport near Washington, DC. That specific Piper Cub is also the only powered aircraft in which he ever experienced a total engine failure. Fortunately, he was still pre-solo with an instructor on board and the instructor made a perfect dead-stick landing into a farm field. He made a limited number of parachute jumps in the 1963-1964 period using surplus military parachutes with the 5T-U modification. On his 9th jump, he had a big-time inversion which destroyed the main canopy but the reserve did its job. He then borrowed a rig and made a 10th jump but decided after that to sit things out until he could get one of the new parachute rigs that were just being introduced. But before that happened, he spent most of one year working on an aircraft test program at a famous location in the Mojave Desert. While there, he took advantage of the opportunity to fly sailplanes at a nearby location and never got back to parachuting. Basically, he considers himself to be a “nitty-gritty, number-crunching nerd”. and what should we put for you? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

those are good answers Jo, don't you think those answers are better than most of your responses? much better than, his prints HAVE to be on there or the fact that Duane knew how to make a CB communicate with aircraft and finally, but the windows are basically bullet proof, anytime you post something on a public form, always check the source or add a comment with your statement explaining you're not sure about the validation. in order to get to the bottom of something, you can not be one sided. just some Friendly Advice "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI