kiltboy

Hey Bodypilot, I'll give my limited opinion as a brit in the US. I read the brit news through the web and Goerge Galloway's opinions have long been known. He is sometimes referred to as the member for Baghdad and another member of the house jokingly recommended that he surrender Iraq to the Brit and US forces as SH wasn't to be found. I still continue to be surprised that Journalists are allowed to crawl over a building that is rich in this type of intelligence and that they are allowed to remove it. As such I will continue to be suspicious of this story as well as the document that Links SH with Osama bin Laden. George Galloways days are numbered but I find it a stretch to believe that an MP would sell out to another government (as is claimed). Cash for questions is one thing (also wrong) but treason is something else. I also believe that his high profile visits to Iraq drew the interest of the British Intelligence services who (I assume) found nothing untoward in their investigation. David

I'm more "surprised" that there are no Intelligence agents from the US or UK cordoning off that building while they gather up and examine all the intelligence that should be there. Much better to let a "journalist find something" that he can then broadcast to the world. When did I become such a cynic? David

Wan't it Ypres in '15, the Somme in '16 and Passchendale in '17? Similar tactics in the same place producing the same results? David

I'd second that recommendation. David

quote "Minefields are supposed to be mapped and documented by those who place them (to keep friendlies from getting blown up), but mistakes are made, and sometimes soldiers get in a hurry and don't keep records." The Falkland Islands being one of several examples. David

You have to give the CIA time to plant them first. On a serious note it would be good to have the experts from the UN interview those scientsts that wouldn't speak previously under the SH regime. David

Sorry but I need to clarify that the BBC is financed by parliament under law. It is not run by the state there is no Minister for the BBC in the house of commons. There is another Independant News Service funded by advertising called ITN. Sky news is also braodcast from the UK and is owned by Rupert Murdoch the same guy taht owns Fox. There is no government run paper so to insinuate that there is no free press could be insulting but I'll take it as ill informed. I've seen piss poor journalism on both ssides of the ocean in the last few months. David

Absolutely nothing wrong with handing Saddam to The Hague in my opinion. The alternative is to try him in Iraq as the majority of his cimes were committed against his own people. Doubt that would happen so trying him for crimes against humanity in an independant body would work fine with me. David

Everywhere I look around........................

I gave myself a line twist on my pd 190 in exactly the same way that you described your experience. Only went 180 degrees and it came out quickly so I wasn't in the same situation as yourself i.e. spinning and losing altitude. flew very conservatively for the rest of the ride down. David

Oh you have to post that when it turns up. Does Fred still bounce around on the weather map in the dock? David

Wasn't on about the missiles more the stash that they'd found. I thought the missiles had warheads but nothing in them? However do you think the missile crop spraying has commercial potential? Seriously I'm looking for a job. I can see it now. yours for 5 easy payments of 19.95 but wait there's more order now and we'll include a rusty T-55 for Moose hunting absolutely free just pay S&H. David

Nothing heard for sure (so I can't provide a link) but I think I saw something where a Colonel was saying that it looked like pesticides at an agricultural facility. I personally think that the media rush to report something without confirmed hard evidence is one of the bad aspects of how close the media are to what is going on. Stories are reported before all the facts are established. David

Yes it was the diplomats but then I'm not a fan of politicians. David

Morning Michelle, I never said the article wasn't interesting and if that's the impression I gave then maybe I need to take another English class. I see the diplomatic failure as a deterioration over time and while the reasons behind the failure are interesting I was getting tired of the arguing that I believe you may be alluding to. I would find the discussion would degrade to a shouting match of what everyone's grandfather did 50 years ago, when attitude's were different. The world was a lot more racist then than it is now. I think supporting documents are a great way of sharing sources that others may not be aware of and giving a chance for an informed discussion. There have been a number of posts by different members of these boards that could be used as a model for a respectful exchange of different opinions. I'm thinking of one on Israel and N. Ireland just now. I have also backed off and hit delete more than once for similar reasons that you mention. I felt I was talking to a wall. In the end I think part of it is frustration on my part as a Brit in the US I'm seeing a tone in the media that I'm uncomfortable with, almost a rhetoric that maybe I'm reacting to. If you are in anyway uncomfortable with anything I post in the future but are reluctant to post a reply to the board then please PM me. David

I don't quite believe that as there are a lot of intelligent people here who more than happy to be invollved in an intelligent, respectful debate. The initial post adds more to the discussion of why certain nations oppose the current conflict which is all well and good. However the debate on the failure of diplomacy finished when the war started. Given the thoughts expressed in the article it does show where diplomacy failed many years ago and as such would have been a really good point to make 3-4 weeks ago. I for one am getting tired of nationalistic slapping when the interest of one nation's government (not people) goes against another government. David

Many do believe that if the US doesn't find something soon they'll make sure something gets found. Call me cynical if you will but I'm one of those believers. Gotta love the CIA I believe the nerve agents mentioned were initially developed as pesticides as pesticides work in the same way. Just chemical warfare at the creepy crawlie scale. There are lots of irritants out there that can cause similar effects but there's no reason to hide them if they're being used for industrial purposes. It should be possible to get detailed information by sending samples to certified labs as used to happen with UNSCOM. I'm not sure what the gear on the NBC vehicles is capable of doing. As I've said before a disgruntled Grad student could make most of the stuff. Alternatively hold a gun to someone's head. David

Thanks for the link. David

You're kidding right? Tell me they never sacked him because the army got there first. Have you got a source/link to the story? David

Hey PhillyKev, I'll have to disagree with the points that are raised in the initial post (not yours) simply because there is little regard for the feelings in Europe at the end of WW1 as it's been dumbed down for the masses. WW1 was carnage and whole generations had been killed, economies crippled so there was v.little appetite to take in Germany in round 2. Therefore a policy of appeasement did occur. That and the UK and France did not have the military might to take on Germany as they had effectively disarmed themselves. The RAF only rearmed from biplane fighters in 38/39 where ME109s had been used in the Spanish civil war. As for the Jews well anti-semitism was rife in Europe and the US prior to WW2 so nobody really cared what happened to them (I'm thinking of a boat load of Jews that were allowed to leave Germany prior to 39 but were refused entry in every port they tried including New York. I can see where a Veteran could raise the arguments presented in that email but I see those arguments as being from a narrow viewpoint instead of looking at the bigger picture of the time in question. I fail to see where the similarity between WW2 and now exist but I've made those arguments before so I won't repeat them. I don't see Iraq as a direct threat to the US as it is possible to make chemical agents anywhere with a bit of knowhow (ask a disgruntled grad student). The recent anthrax problem was sourced from a US lab. Nuclear weapons are scary but present an engineering problem as well as obtaining the fissile material. Regardless of whether anyone suppports the war or not the war has been going on for a couple of weeks now. I see propaganda battles from both sides as well as some pretty crappy journalism (not from the embeded guys who, with the excetion of Geraldo Rivera, report what they see and have done an outstanding job to date. There are soldiers out there because previous governments, not just the US but others in the UN, shirked their responsibilities. I hate being lied to and I detest when someone seems to pat me on the head as if I don't understand what's going on. Of the veterans of WW2 I've known, including my own grandfather, they have singularly never said war was a good thing. Something that should not be rushed in to . It could be a cultural difference on my part as a Brit in the US. Rant over it's been a shitty day. I'm not venting at you so please don't take it as such all the above comments were directed at the posted email forward. Edited to add. Superstu this wasn't a shot at you either so please don't take it as such I just wanted to vent some frustration at what I believe to be propaganda in the hope that whoever started forwarding it at least gets to read a response from someone. David

I hate to feed what I believe is a troll but this looks like a propaganda email. I'm sick of reading the propaganda crap that is spouted. There have been several historical debates on these boards regarding the role of the league of nations leading up to WW2 and the language got pretty heated. They were at least debates that were backed by cited references. I'm sorry but the gentleman does not make a heck of an argument for war in Iraq. David

I forgot how scary they can be. David

I know it happens I was just wondering why given the present location and activities of the troops under his command. David

I've been hearing snippets about a Marine Colonel being relieved of his command. http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1086322,00.html Anyone know any more about this? David

Yes but you forget the reporters have heavily armed Soldiers and Marines to protect them. David