5.samadhi

update: I stopped doing front riser turns for landing, I am now focusing just on double fronts to generate speed...I had some great jumps this weekend doing just this and working on accuracy. I set as a goal this weekend to sometime this year get my pro rating on my current canopy with double fronts before moving on with professional canopy coaching for front riser carves someday (hundreds of jumps from now?). I had a breakthrough and realized I had the rest of my skydiving career to slowly progress through different high speed landing approaches. Plus I have other goals I want to focus on anyways (doing video for four-way).

If you have people you can trust that will mentor/coach you then listen to them...that is what every student should be looking for. Not blind trust, but total trust...that means that you do not need to come online and ask strangers who do not know you. If you feel you need to come online and ask strangers what your wingloading should be, then that indicates that you do not have trust in whoever is coaching you (so you should listen to yourself why you do not have trust and TRUST yourself for not trusting them). In that case (which it appears you are in), I would follow Brian Germain's chart. I have followed this chart pretty much my entire time jumping and I can tell you it is very good. It is not too conservative and not too wild. You will be able to have fun on the wingloadings he recommends at the level you are at and still progress (somewhat) safely. No matter your wingloading you can die under a perfectly good main canopy. You should jump the canopy that is right for you for THIS jump...because THIS jump could be your last. edit - http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf

you're loading a safire 119 at 1.1...you weigh 110 pounds or did you miscalculate your WL?

ooooh, you are eXtrEmE I bet you have a go-pro and drive super fast through residential neighborhoods translation - bragging about stupid stuff doesn't help your case and this really is one crowd that this kind of stuff absolutely doesn't impress well actually I was illustrating a point that skydivers seem to be more obsessed with failure than other disciplines where death is imminent if you do the equivalent of not letting up the front riser. Its just odd to me...I suppose skydiving is more of a community event and this is where the difference lay between fixed object jumping, highlining between two cliffs alone or soloing a route without gear. More of a 'mother hen' syndrome in skydiving? I wonder why climber's aren't like you AggieDave? They have cut gear off their dead friends too you know. You're not special in that regard so surely that is not the difference. Rehmwa, nothing is extreme. And everything is extreme.

well OK, there we have it...you're a coherent thoughtful poster here. Why the obsession on failure in the sport by you and others? No other sport I have enjoyed is there such an obsession on failure (and the failure here btw is freezing up on holding on your front riser until you impact the earth). I have base jumped, highlined, and free solo'd multipitch routes and never encountered such negative thinking centered around obsessing over failure. Why do you think it is so? Do posters truly believe others do not understand that if the front riser is held too long impact will occur and it will hurt. Did you actually have to come up with the hangar example? Dave do you really think it is that mysterious that people need it explained to them??? Why didnt anybody tell me that if I slipped out of the crack with my hand jam then I would die when I was free soloing routes. Or if I fell off the antennae instead of exiting clean I would die? Pretty sure nobody said anything because it was obvious. Exactly like the issue of holding your fronts until impact. But I don't think because something is obvious I would be cavalier while practicing the activity. I never let my guard down free soloing, I never quickly rigged a highline, and I certainly dont initiate a dive with a parachute from 300 feet without thinking and analyzing outs and plans for aborting the dive. I would think *thats* obvious too but who knows with this group we have Anyway, I really am done, its been ahem interesting.

Will a rawa box made for a cx100 work with a cx110? They are the same dimensions so I'm thinking it will work (unless there's something I'm missing?). anybody try this??? buying a used box makes me happy but it not fitting makes me not happy

this has become some ridiculous shit! I'm gonna test jump a seven cell canopy that is no longer produced. Oh shit I'm gonna die dudes!!!! I'm done here this is a waste of time. Incidentally its the same message most were trying to communicate with me from the get-go

well I tried Stane, he didnt have anything for me about the indigo...he did get back to me very quickly though so he has good customer service even for a product that he doesnt sell anymore. it looks like it will come down to test jumping it and figuring it out on my own.

hey dave, so riddle me this if you will, i'd sincerely appreciate your insight. why is doing a 90 with one front with plenty of altitude for recovery, followed smoothly by double front risers and then let off for a smooth landing (allowing canopy to naturally recover before toggles are applied for plane-off) met with proclamations of death? It seems very conservative to me...a safire2 139 with a 1.25 WL does not lose that much altitude in a 90 front riser turn and recovers extremely quick (so if you do initiate low which should not happen based on an ingrained site picture) then you can abort turn and take your out and do your slight crosswinder (which I have practiced many times purposely for that reason). So why the animosity (not from you, or Aggie Dave, or beowulf, or matt but from the other random people)? Is it fear that I will progress too quickly into actually dangerous landing approaches? The only danger I've been told so far is slamming into the ground because you dont let off your front risers! I could also accelerate into a brick wall with my truck if I dont let of the accelerator and apply brakes! I dont think I'm gonna do that though so it strikes me as insubstantial Is there any real danger besides NOT LETTING UP YOUR FRONT RISER? (this is a learning moment by the way).

well fair enough beowulf, thats cool if you dont want to talk about landing a parachute. i wanted to talk about it, you know, in the swooping forum, but i'll just reserve talking about it for when im on the dropzone i guess and to the ones with proclamations of death. yes im very much like sangi, with my 90 degree front riser turn initiated extremely high and double fronts to land. its just a roll of the dice each jump when im gonna go in doing that isnt it!!! now lets make another thread about removeable sliders to make the forum even more interesting.

you're into making snap judgments aren't you? Did you miss the part where I said I've received coaching and will continue getting coaching? I also didnt really ask a question, merely laid out my landing pattern progression and asked for thoughts about it...to you know...talk about what we are into. Kinda what internet forums are....about. I never asked for internet coaching...but keep on rocking out guy!

Oops, my bad. Thought BASE was all they did. I only knew of the contact b/c I'd heard the local gossip that Pete recently took over the US distributorship. Actually you're a little confused but thanks for the attempt...I wish it were a base canopy cuz that would make this process much easier since Stane still produces those in europe. Atair in europe took over the base canopies (thats Stane) and split from skydiving mains and Atair USA (they continued to produce skydiving mains for a few years). I emailed Stane and he doesnt really know anything about the indigo (manufactured but never brought to market as a seven cell canopy intended to compete with the spectre apparently). Oh well I am getting a new one (indigo) soon and will fly it and test it, and take line measurements to develop a line trim chart (and just hope it came out of the factory in trim!). thanks for the help everybody

Does anybody have contact information for Atair USA? I need information on the Atair Indigo canopy. Any leads on anybody who might know anybody that has info on this canopy would be helpful! I'm about to test jump it but any more information could help me form a better opinion. I also need line trim charts if possible (unlikely?). thanks and blue skies!

thats a fair assessment and hence my earlier voicing of frustration with the process of online discussion (because I don't think what you're seeing is an accurate portrayal of me as a jumper or a discusser). I'd imagine if we talked in person the discussion would go differently. I blame myself not taking the time to clearly articulate my thoughts! peace dude

ah, well I'm done here, dave, but you must have missed the multiple posts I made saying I agree with the idea of professional coaching and I am going to pursue that this summer (in fact already had my mind made up about that one but thanks for pointing out to me that its a good idea). Well its been worth it based on AggieDave's post - as usual his writing is very insightful. peace out guys and gals!

^ just pile on man with all of your shitty jokes. lets make the forum as uninteresting as possible with as dumbed down humor as we can. lets not actually discuss "swooping and canopy control" here.

do you have to have it on for every skydive?

aggie and beowulf and others: absolute respect to what you're saying. I think there is a miscommunication...nothing I have said was intended to contradict advice about coaching. I have received coaching (nothing beyond the adept swoopers at the dz i learned at giving me) and will get professional swooping advice. lets get that straight! I was just discussing what I was doing with my current progression not saying I knew it all or anything like that. fuckin internet man its a waste of time to talk about your passions with other likeminded people I think

well yes of course. its not an either or thing though (talk about it online or get coaching). i'll get coaching this summer hopefully if I can take the time off and have money for it (already an expensive sport). I jumped 13 times this weekend though and learned a shit-ton on my own. its not rocket science landing a parachute...it must be respected but to think you can't learn on your own is ridiculous. respect to everybody that answered - hope you had some great skydives this weekend

what was bad about learning on your own? Did you feel in danger on landings? Or do you mean that your learning was much slower than if you had advice from a mentor with experience?

My basic pattern is the same as when I was on a MANTA student canopy - I am basically initiating my turn to final around 250-300 feet with a 90 degree turn (performed with a front riser and harness input instead of a toggle) and then smoothly holding both front risers to maintain some speed from the turn to provide lift for the canopy to plane out. For the 180s I have done I have initiated it at 500 and held double fronts to finish the landing. Before I 'mated' the front riser turn with the double fronts I was flying my pattern with front risers but allowing canopy to recover naturally before double fronts are applied. progression: student canopy jumps 1-20 monarch 175 sabre 150 sabre 120 (jumps 80-150) double fronts for first 30 jumps then 45 degree front riser turn to final + double fronts sabre2 150 jumps 150-170 double fronts for a few jumps then 90 degree turn + double fronts safire2 139 WL 1.25 jumps 170-210 90+double fronts I imagine the next logical step in the progression is to get more comfortable and aware during the 90+double front and slowly decrease the amount of time spent on double front risers before allowing canopy to plane out before flaring. Eventually it will just be the front riser turn that generates the speed for lift at the end. But I am giving myself plenty of time (many jumps) before I would feel like venturing into shortening that double front leg of the final approach. Eventually I could see how a 270 front riser turn would be possible after hundreds of jumps. I'm landing within 2-5m of target most every jump on my current canopy. I dont have mad skillz so I am making up with that by being slow about this progression.

It is safer going to double fronts to burn off the last bit of altitude after the 90 having initiated it higher than? (Is my question of the thread btw)...however I dont want to ingrain bad habits...I'd rather be high after the 90 than low though (hence the need for double fronts after the turn to conserve the speed gained during the turn and use it for lift in the landing). My reasoning is that I can gain more and more awareness by doing it this way and then when the time comes to progress to a canopy that has a longer recovery arc than the safire 2 I currently fly I can slowly become accustomed to bringing the 90-180 lower to the ground so that double fronts won't be needed. I probably dont get as much speed out of the landing as with a 90...However it is safer highballing the turn and doing doubles to get me down that last bit... I always have an 'out' so I can abort the turn early (less than 90) and do a crosswind landing (no problem for me on my current canopy). Am going to get some coaching when time money permits. thanks for the responses!

I've been experimenting with adding speed with front risers pretty much since the beginning of my skydiving (well around 50-60 jumps doing double fronts). I have begun last 75 jumps to add a front riser carve very conservative sometimes just 45 degrees...lately I have been doing 90-180 degree turn and then going onto double fronts to finish the dive before letting the canopy start the recovery process and flare for landing. I notice that if I time the 90 to double front transition correctly then I get more speed than if I just did double fronts (but actually not a tremendous amount more). If I mistime the transition (say I delay between the carve and the double fronts), then I lose a lot of the carving turn speed and just end up going as fast as my double fronts let me go (which is faster than normal but not as fast as a slow carving 90-180 gets me going). I think what is happening is the canopy is recovering from the carving turn and then I am forcing it back into a dive again with the double fronts (which would explain why riser pressure builds during this transition). Does this make sense and am I understanding whats going on correctly??? So if I want to maintain speed of the front riser carve while still giving myself a good margin of error by using double fronts down low then I have to smoothly transition to doubles from the left front riser turn so to not allow the canopy to begin the recovery arc before I want it to??? I'm not ready to give up finishing the landing approach on double fronts because this gives me a really great margin of error for the setup for the carving turn...if I set a bit too low then I just do doubles for 1-2 seconds instead of 3-4 seconds if I set up correctly. My question is am I holding back my progression with my landing approach by always going into double fronts to finish or can I progress with my approaches (in terms of getting a further plane-out during the flare) and stick with my conservative approach of going to double fronts after the carve to land???

its beats watching real housewives of orange county. maybe we can make a show for your new girl real housewives of skydivers....or how about "16 year old skydiver and pregnant" damn i need to stop letting my girlfriend control the remote :( carry on good sir :)

parachuting in general, dont really have the details but somebody had a cliff strike and died in switzerland base jumping.