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If the owner of the gear is OK with it I think it would be a good idea, but of course only if the conditions were just right, meaning not too much wind. By the time people get their own gear they are so afraid of falling down and getting it dirty that they are terrified of going downwind even by a few miles per hour. Of course, there are some people that are so afraid of falling down at all that they are going to be difficult to convince to give it a try, because they assume they cannot run that fast. For some, the act of falling down is closely associated with getting hurt because they have never played rough as a kid and fallen down as a course of playing.

Excellent research Chris! And excellent conclusion! Sometimes problems are complex and cannot be solved with simple solutions or "conventional wisdom" that is unfortunately passed from skydiver to skydiver without scientific background. You are figuring this out the correct way.

Just in case you all don't know what Snow White is talking about, Steve gave a really nice seminar at the WFFC on human factors and safety, complete with PowerPoint presentation. He has also done great work as S&TA at Quantum Leap Skydiving. It has been a long road to recovery for Steve and we are all eager to see him get most things back to normal, at least as much as he can. The long stay in the hospital has been a real drag for him.

I believe you, and I believe all of the respondents who have studied tracking in detail. I guess what makes me uncomfortable about some people talking about the "body as airfoil" part of it is that I see quite a few instructors telling students about this before the students have even managed a good "delta" position. It's like it has become one of those urban legends passed around by those who don't really understand it. Perhaps I should say: For people learning to "track", [The improvement in "making your body like a wing" surely cannot be that much.]

John Kallend's response to Ralph Glasser's letter to Parachutist about lift while tracking A question for John and the forum. Although technically John is correct about the definition of "lift", don't you think it is a bit of a stretch to tell skydivers to de-arch and "make their body the shape of a wing", implying that they will get more lift due to "pressure difference between top and bottom surfaces"? As aerobatic pilots sometimes say, "With enough airspeed you can make a barn door act like a wing." But I think that is all that is happening. The improvement in "making your body like a wing" surely cannot be that much. It's not that it is not true, it's the implication of how much good it will do.

To the point where the brakes are set, about 10 inches or so for this canopy. I never analyzed that in particular, but there is a certain amount of variation from opening to opening or turn to turn. Not very hard, but for me, starting a turn causes the toggle pressure to become great enough that I can't hold it down anyway.

Pretty good guess. http://www.pcprg.com/mnvr.htm See graph of riser forces.

Tom, thanks for doing that. I was going to write to the editor too, but I hardly knew where to start, the article was so bad. Think of the opportunity that Tandem instructor had, to show a pilot how to fly a parachute. The author unfortunately presented skydiving as the "crazy" thing to do, and I'm really puzzled as to why AOPA would not treat it more seriously. I guess they needed an article for that issue.

Anyone know which drop zones this pilot/student skydiver went to to make his jumps? Sounds like it might be more than one.

Note that there are multiple types that are called "flat". This will give you a bit of info you want I think: http://www.pcprg.com/packing.htm

Well, the last one I went to, I saw people overloading the washer, which isn't safe. I'm not even sure it was wash-worthy, but then, I didn't check the logbooks. I'm not comfortable with so many people folding their cloths so close to me. How large is your laundry area? I think you need to promise me that if anyone does anything unsafe that they will be removed. And can you promise me good weather too? I prefer to hang cloths outside to dry.

That's a new one on me. It the line set is built with even tension on all lines, how is any particular line going to stretch more than another? I've seen GP and FCI Mantas with 2000 jumps that are still in trim.

For a presentation at a PIA Symposium I took a highly loaded Stiletto (as the first canopy of 3 on a cutaway rig) and packed it in a number of outrageous ways to see if it ever opened in an unrecoverable turn, and then did full stalls once open to see if it could ever get into an unrecoverable turn. In my case I could not get it in an unrecoverable turn, although with practice I think it could be made to do that. And this was with the canopy bent up into a "U" shape and flopping all over the place. The point being that you should not fear approaching a stall, because it is going to have to be a fairly radical one to get you into trouble. As Rob's post explains, work it right on the edge so you know what it feels like. (If your "D" lines are not slack you are not even close.) Brian's article mentions some alarming things during a stall that would worry a lot of people, but I don't think many people would ever experience them beause most people would stop long before the point that their canopy would do them.

It was a PD reline job and they replaced 4 slider stops and material in the area (patches.) It would seem this happens to canopies that have a number of jumps on them and open medium to slowly to begin with. Interesting, and it only makes sense.

Report: Dacron lines on Stiletto I had my Stilletto relined with Dacron because: 1. I got tired of the dimensional changes with wear. 2. To give me even softer openings. I don't have too many jumps on it yet, but thought I would report on it in case someone else has considered doing this. (Note: I already have a larger than stock slider on it, so the changes described are from the lines only.) The openings are simply phenomenal (to me). It is in the "sniveling" stage about 1-2 seconds longer and "wanders" back and forth a bit more, (which to me does not seem unusual, since it has more time in which to do this.) It still opens on heading. The slider stays up near the top of the lines for 1-2 seconds longer after the canopy has done most of the spreading, and then it moves down the lines much slower than when it had Spectra lines. (I would think that this will cause less wear in general on the lines over time.) We'll see what happens as the lines wear. The flight characteristics changes are very small. It "seems" a bit slower in flight and during turns, (but this is very subjective.) I don't (seem to) notice any difference on landing. I also jump 3 large parachutes so going back and forth between them and the Stiletto is going to make it difficult to "feel" the difference. And after a few more jumps on it, the "feel" of the Spectra lines will be gone, and further comparison will be useless anyway.

Actually no. The WFFC web site lists the requirements to be wristbanded as a "skydiver" on the "Gear and Jumper Requirements" page. admonished by 2 people who know better and wish that people would not do things that jepardize skydiving, the WFFC, and baloon jumping at the WFFC.

I think they are basically as reliable, and I understand all your points. It's been a long thread, so you may not have caught all my comments, but it was something to the effect of, "It is a skydive (being from a balloon), so why not go higher and use a skydiving rig with 2 parachutes." Also my concern about the legality of it was that it could affect skydiving or the WFFC. BASE jumping is a great sport, but mixing it with skydiving would seem to eventually cause problems I don't think either sport wants. Thanks for the comments.

What do you do up there behind your student? Teach

The word "stupid" refers to endangering skydiving, the WFFC, and balloon jumping at the WFFC, and I used it to get my point across. It worked, and it inflamed a number of people, which is regrettable, but is always a risk when you let people know what you think. The main reason for my post was to educate skydivers who may not know about there topics. And in the process I have learned a lot too. P.S. I want everyone to know that I represent myself only, unless I state otherwise.

Nah, I'm just saying that it's great when people get together to figure out how to make something happen. I guess I need to uncheck that box that says "Append signature to post". My signature line usually states my thoughts on skydiving fairly well, but it's not working very well for this thread is it?. :)

Come on now! If you didn't care you wouldn't be commenting. To me it's been time well spent. I've learned a few things about the atitude of BASE jumpers I didn't know, (and I would think people would be interested in that.) It's very important to the whole situation. The jumper was never at risk from the FAA.

Nick, I'm trying to give you something positive to work with or to look forward to. I don't understand how this can be construed as negative or not caring about safety. I must admit that I have sufficient ego to be convinced that a positive outlook should benefit the WFFC more than a negative one. (Maybe I just learned that from Don.)

I wore a seat belt (restraint) when I jumped it. I never heard anyone comment about lack of seat belts. Perhaps you are refering to the restraint systems which were not "seat belts"? If so, I am quite sure the FAA looked at those and accepted them. If you expect me to personally prevent events like this then your expectations are way to high. "All the time" would be an exaggeration of course. (In case people don't know this, there were time this year when the event was not on an official weather hold from clouds, but some of the aircraft owners decided on their own to not fly.) This is one of the things that the FAA is really quite reasonable about. They don't violate people if a cloud has been an issue, then simply put the event on a weather hold. I do not walk up and down the isle of the aircraft I am on to check seatbelts, nor can I in some aircraft. I have not seen anyone neglect seatbelts in several years. The only thing I saw was some guys trying to sit on the floor of the Skyvan where there are no seatbelts. The Skyvan loader and several jumpers spoke before I could. Like I said, there are some things that I may not notice or even be naive to.

Understood. More or less :) Thanks for the comments.

I honestly encourage you to make that happen! Previous FAA people at the WFFC did not approve the AN-2 from dropping jumpers because it was certificated as an "experimental" aircraft which cannot take passengers for hire. The current FAA folks allowed it to be jumped as a club with a membership. They simply want things to be done correctly. Once you figure out how to make these things legal, it's just fantastic.