peek

Interested spectators = more tandems . Interested spectators = more student skydivers There, fixed it for you.

I was about ready to reply to the guy, but your post explains it so well. Around these parts they at least kind of know better because they have seen me in mine.

The routine stuff, maybe, but not with students! They provide something new and interesting nearly every jump. My doing a lot of types of jumping helps too. I don't recall if and when I became complacent, but I guess I did at some point. Now days I put more thought into some of the things I used to not worry so much about. Perhaps because I have not had any type of problem in a long time and that alone makes me more cautious. I've always been a "Know Your Gear" kind of guy, and I imagine that helps a lot.

Those "walrus tooth" tabs usually work very well unless they get a bend in them, so check for that. The principle of the way they work is that they can bend to make it easy to tuck them in, but then must remain fairly straight to hold the flap well. If you can't get them to stay straight you might contact the manufacturer, Rigging Innovations, for replacements, or ask a knowledgeable rigger to make new ones.

If I did I certainly didn't mean to. I was trying to parallel the two instructional method progressions.

Well, unfortunately it is not that simple, and I suppose that is why a lot of drop zones are vague about it. Once you are no longer with a static line instructor and using a static line to initiate your deployment, you are simply a freefall student, and progressively jumping at higher altitudes and longer delays. Once you no longer have an AFF instructor with you in freefall you are just a freefall student, although probably jumping at full altitude. With either of these, maybe the drop zone refers to it as a "coach" jump or something similar. For the "static line" progression it takes a bit of time with a price list and calculator to figure out what it will probably cost. You might just need to do this yourself.

I would say, "exchanging a known problem for a potential one." Since all we hear nowdays is downsize, downsize, downsize, there are a number of rigs with closing loops that originate on the first flap that are never going to be able to be made tight because they contain a canopy smaller than the design size. Sure, there is potential for trouble, but if a person is careful with the installation and maintenance of a flexible cable pin, it could make their rig more secure. It has certainly done so with my rig. There is a thread around here somewhere with Bill Booth stating that the RWS (UPT) will not offer such a pin, and I don't blame him, because it is not suitable for most skydivers. Fortunately most new rigs have good pin protection (good flap closing design), so many people with rigs that don't close tightly will probably still be OK.

OK, I see how that can happen, but I was thinking that Martini was taking about it happening related to the flexible pin. What you drew could happen with any pin as far as I can tell. Perhaps we need another thread, "main container flap closing order", (and why).

Yep, if the container is tight, the black cable would be my choice too. My Centaurus that has the flex cable was too loose for comfort, that is why I use a cable.

If a rig has a closing loop that originates on a tab between the reserve and main, of course. But many rigs now have loops that originate on the first flap to close. This unfortunately does not allow for much adjustment if a smaller canopy is installed in a rig made for a larger one.

This is not "autoset's" setup. By all means, send a picture of the situation you describe, because from the text I can't tell at all what you mean. Covered in my reply and in the study.

I see you found my study. I continue to jump that rig with the flexible cable closing pin with much success. http://www.pcprg.com/flexcab.htm To answer some of the concerns: 1. It has to be built correctly as described in the study. 2. Yes, you need to continue checking the condition of the cable to be sure it doesn't get too big of a nick in it. Mine is the original cable with a lot of jumps on it. No nicks, and I don't do anything special. 3. The most likely reason for using a flexible cable is that your original pin is so loose it scares you, so you use the longer flexible cable. If the closing forces are high you probably won't use the flexible cable, and I wouldn't recommend it. 4. Of course you need to change the closing loop more often, but getting a sturdy material for the closing loop helps a lot.

Some places, of course, but there are places that still call it AFF, still call them "levels", do 7 of them with (an) AFF instructor(s), and then provide good instruction with the continuing coach jumps. I'm really puzzled, because doesn't your statement below describe a DZ that trained well using this program? "I couldn't believe it when one of the new jumpers mentioned that scott miller's course was just a refresher of what she learned in AFF." And just in case you think the ISP is the end-all answer, I have seen a visiting students's (4 page ISP oriented) proficiency card that had done jumps up to about category F, and NONE of the equipment, spotting, canopy, or emergency review sections signed off. None! And I bet that drop zone says they teach using the ISP. It's all in the instruction, not in the name.

Dave, you apparently learned at a DZ that didn't do too well on the traditional 7 level AFF program, but that does not mean it is "old" or "outdated". It's kind of like when people talk about having learned on the "static line method". Well, usually only the first 5 jumps are static line. And when a person learns on the 7 level AFF program usually (if they are pretty good) only the first 7 jumps are AFF. After that, you are either taught well (by coaches, mentors, etc.) or you aren't. It is a DZ quality issue, not an instructional method issue. Only a small part of the quality of instruction involves the specific "method". The ISP is not a panacea.

Yes! Very nice. Now if we can just get the riser manufacturers to do this.

Done. http://www.pcprg.com Go to the Skydiver Area at http://www.pcprg.com/skydive.htm Stowing excess steering line using Velcro without damaging the line http://www.pcprg.com/slstow.htm

I wish I could think of further sarcasm to emphasize your point but I can't. I suppose you do what I do, and that is to follow the reserve canopy manufacturer's instructions for packing the reserve, then at the point where it says to refer to the rig manufacturer's instructions, you go there. I haven't seen any letters from canopy manufacturers in the Talon 2 manual approving their "interesting" pack job, so I'll stick to the instructions from the canopy manufacturer.

I see jheadley posted after us, stating that he has seen this too. But my reply to Chuck might be the best explanation. I wasn't trying to be a wise guy at you. Perhaps that was a bit of sarcasm directed to those people I see doing this. I find it difficult to believe some of the things people do or not do to be "cool", but I see it.

Well, maybe I should be putting it another way- Because I suggest to them that it would be best to stow the excess, and I'm "not cool", then not stowing it makes it "cool".

Velcro damages many things, but only if the hook side touches it. It is not difficult to sew a couple of pieces of Velcro on risers in a way that prevents this. I'm not going to open my rig to take a picture, but I shouldn't need to because I can describe it. Sew a rectangular piece of hook on the back side of the riser, slightly narrower than the riser, and with a height (up and down the riser) slightly less than the width of the pile being used, i.e., 1 or 2 inch. Sew a 2-3 inch length of pile to the edge of the riser so that when the pile is curled around back it completely covers the hook. The excess brake line is stowed at the side of the riser, enclosed in pile. It's really that simple, and unless one is careless when packing, the lines will never touch hook, (nor will anything else, besides the pile!) Why the manufacturers don't do this I haven't a clue, because if people don't like it, it can simply be ignored, leaving the pile covering the hook, never to touch another thing, forever and ever.

Who said? (One can no longer earn a new I/E rating, but the rating remains for those holding it.)

One reason is that few rig manufacturers have designed easy to use non-Velcro methods for doing this, and of course, everyone thinks that Velcro is evil now. People would rather accept the additional risk of unstowed excess than install a decent stowage system on their riser. And believe it or not, there is a "cool factor" to having them unstowed. Seems crazy to you and me, but I know places and people where it exists. Of course, a perfectly acceptable system can be designed using Velcro that will not damage the lines (unless you try really hard to stow them poorly.) But I guess most people are too lazy.

My prediction is that most people will not go to another boogie unless it is close, and the numbers will not be large. Sure, people south and southwest may go to SkyFest, people in the Chicago area may go to SummerFest, people in the mideast may go to Richmond-The Boogie, people in the east may go to a Ranch or Cross Keys event, people in the northwest may go to Lost Prairie, people in the west may go to Perris Valley to jump the jet if they have never done so, but... Not in huge numbers. Mainly people will stick close to home (since many of their local DZ's have turbine aircraft anyway.) It has already started, DZ's are planning "local" boogies around that time. What are gas prices going to be this summer? (rhetorical question)

That was for canopy work. Here is the link if you are interested. http://www.pcprg.com/swoopstreamer.htm

You ask, "What is the point of "flat" packing? Your comments in a post later in this thread... ...lead me to think that you are one of those people who believe that anything "older" should be abandoned in favor of anything "newer". If that is the case, I cannot comment further or answer your question. If you are _not_ one of those people, then the advantages and disadvantages of the various packing methods that have been described in the thread are where the answer is.