nerdgirl

It's more than just the military -- that's the point. While the military's unclassified networks may have vulnerabilities; one could argue that anything that's got underlying parts radiation hardened is less vulnerable. It's a credit (& strength of) to the US system (civilian oversight, w/in & w/out the USG) that the military/DoD is so forthcoming/transparent. The civilian network, part of the nation's critical infrastructure, is more vulnerable. Softer target, as well. Qualitative comparison of long-term strategic consequences of attack on military versus civilian network is going to require either a few beers or another delayed plane. /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

I’ve never particularly excelled at following standard, customary norms and practices. It’s my inner iconoclast.

Thanks!

Shouldn't that read, "24/7?" Only for you ... /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

I was curious enough about this -- & it’s relevant to some ‘stuff’ I do professionally -- to ask a friend & former colleague, (who’s a PhD physicist/computer scientist - noted for [riddler]), and “Chief Architect” at another successful Silicon Valley internet-based company (as a stand-in for Google). It’s worth keeping in mind that he’s writing from the perspective of an operator/innovator & a strategist to foster innovation, someone who has to use program management tools rather than a theorist. Oh yeah, he’s also *really* modest too. Shared w/his permission: “Funny you should ask that question. I just gave a talk at the Stanford Buss. School titled "The Ninjas of Chaos vs. the Black Belts of Six Sigma". The message is that six sigma is completely the wrong approach for product design for web companies. It works great when you're building products such as light bulbs. However when you're faced with a marketplace where innovation is key you need a very different approach. A big part of it comes in what people are calling "principles of design". For us that means a design process that favors lightweight systems that a flexible and adaptable. This is critical in being able to change directions rather than having a long drawn out process (like the gov has in putting together contracts). We often find into the process that the customer wants/needs something very different that what we had imagined and that we have to have a base framework that allows us to move in a new direction without jettisoning all the hard work that had already been done. I put a tremendous amount of effort in underlying architecture to ensure that our products have the ability to be nimble. That said, in a large organization such as ours (16K+ employees) we do have problems innovating. In this case we look outside for inspiration. The easiest to look to buy someone that has something innovative. While that approach doesn't make sense for the gov, they can do other things. One thing is review teams, much like the one Susan and I led. These teams can come in and ask hard questions, and propose some innovative solutions." VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

True enough that I don’t want to go *there* [death] yet! [Being pedantic in the morning ... partially to tease you & partially to illustrate a couple points] No, “energy” after life does not imply concept of an “afterlife.” There’s always some vibrational and rotational energy in the body’s molecules. IIRC, i.e., going back to group theory for the math geeks, there 3 vibrational modes to water. Bending & stretching becomes more complex in larger molecules, i.e., more lines on the IR spectra. Until one reaches/extracts zero-point (-273 degree Celsius or 0 Kelvin), there will be vibrational energy in the body. Even interstellar region of space is warmer than that … not by a lot in some places. Unless a body is *completely* immolated, there’s lots of potential energy too. [/Monday morning pedanticism ] /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

In fifth grade (I'm getting to my point, bear with me) we had an interesting exercise that your quote reminds me of. We'd read the first chapter of a story, then answer questions about what we thought was going on or what we thought about particular characters' traits. Then we'd read another chapter and answer another round of questions. At the end of the story we'd have to write a paper not about the story, but about why we thought our answers changed. Interesting approach. I may try that as an exercise. Thanks.

One (additional) problem with that scenario – that’s been recognized for a while but very little is really being done – is that it becomes a real problem (heck, in some areas it *is* a real problem now) when you need folks who are able to get security clearances, especially for ‘pointy things w/fins’- & ‘shiny metal death’-related work or technical analysis in the intelligence community. ---- ---- ---- Related observation (to subject of thread): Headlines of this weekend’s Wall Street Journal, both ‘above the fold’: “Jobs Data Suggest U.S. Is in Recession” “More People Pushed Into Part-Time Work Force” /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

[tongue firmly planted in cheek] For the counterinsurgency geek … or .... [tongue removed from cheek] BrickArms LLC of Redmond WA added a trio of insurgents to its line of Mini-figs that feature: Tan two-sided minifig Lego torso with crossed-bandoleer print Black Lego Scarf Headwrap Black BrickArms RPG Black BrickArms C96 Broomhandle Mauser Pistol Black BrickArms AK Assault Rifle 8 Black BrickArms M67 Frag Grenades Black Lego Rubber Band Bandoleer Ordered a couple for myself & a set for a couple friends /Marg … who was delayed in an airport on late Sunday night.

As reported last week in UK’s The Guardian “Nato is treating the threat of cyber warfare as seriously as the risk of a missile strike, according to a senior official. Suleyman Anil, who is in charge of protecting Nato against computer attacks, said: ‘Cyber defence is now mentioned at the highest level along with missile defence and energy security. We have seen more of these attacks and we don't think this problem will disappear soon. Unless globally supported measures are taken, it can become a global problem.’ “Among the chief threats is cyber terrorism, in which attempts are made to shut down online communication networks or use the internet to attack official institutions. Although some have warned of the possible threat since the 1980s, it is only in recent years that the issue has made it onto the radar of governments around the world. “But Anil also warned of rogue nations who could sponsor internet-based attacks on Nato members. ‘There are nations who are not just working on defence capabilities, but who have attack capabilities - and that brings a new dimension to the whole issue.’” I assert w/r/t formal threat assessment, where Threat = F(vulnerability, capability, motivation), the threat from cyberterrorism, cyberwarfare, and cybercrime exceeds the missile threat both to the US and to NATO countries. Vulnerability: Well, if you accept that missile defense works, one can assert that US vulnerability is low; if you don’t, then there is a potential vulnerability to those who do have such capability. In June 2007, the Chinese military hacked into the Office of Secretary of Defense’s unclassified computer network. Last week, OSD's chief information officer, Dennis Clem, acknowledged publicly, “This was a very bad day … We don't know when they'll use the information they stole, [which was] an amazing amount, [including] processes and procedures that will be valuable to adversaries.” -- Far from the first time: in 2005, there were almost 80,000 attempted hacks. About 1,300 were successful, including hacks into the Army’s 101st and 82nd Airborne and the 4th Infantry. Not just the DoD that’s being targeted, State Department computers were hacked by China too. Commerce and DHS have also been hacked. -- W/r/t NATO allies, what may mark the first incidence of politically-motivated state-on-state ‘cyber-invasion:’ the Estonian government, police, banks, airports, and communications systems were shut down in April by an cyber attack traced to Russia. Estonia called for help under NATO … the implications of this w/r/t security alliances and security assurances are tremendous: under NATO, who/what is retaliated against? -- the National Strategy for Physical Protection of Critical Infrastructures and Key Assets and the National Strategy to Secure Cyberspace indentifying information and communications technology (ICT) infrastructure, i.e., “telecommunications” as US critical infrastructure. -- National Security Presidential Directive(NSPD) 54/Homeland Security Presidential Directive (HSPD) 23 (classified) was signed 8 Jan 2008. It reportedly “expands the intelligence community's role in monitoring Internet traffic to protect against a rising number of attacks on federal agencies’ computer systems. The directive authorizes the intelligence agencies, in particular the National Security Agency, to monitor the computer networks of all federal agencies -- including ones they have not previously monitored. “Until now, the government’s efforts to protect itself from cyber-attacks -- which run the gamut from hackers to organized crime to foreign governments trying to steal sensitive data -- have been piecemeal. “There has been a string of attacks on networks at the State, Commerce, Defense and Homeland Security departments in the past year and a half. U.S. officials and cyber-security experts have said Chinese Web sites were involved in several of the biggest attacks back to 2005, including some at the country's nuclear-energy labs and large defense contractors.” The execution of this NSPD extends to & is proactively involving the private sector, i.e., “information sharing.” At the same time “privacy advocates, fearing government intrusion on private networks, have already compared the project to the NSA's warrantless wiretapping program. In a congressional hearing last Thursday, Rep. Paul Broun, R-Ga., said the program seemed ‘a little like the fox guarding the henhouse.’” -- The conclusion of the recent National Academy of Sciences report, “Toward a Safer and More Secure Cyberspace” is … well, to put it concisely and less than diplomatically, we’re screwed. On vulnerability: much greater w/r/t execution of cyberterrorism, cyberwarfare, and cybercrime. Capability: We know that there are only 4 countries that have ICBMs capable of hitting the US: Russia, China, France & UK. The President, the SecDef, and head of MDA (nee BMDO) has repeatedly asserted that missile defense is not directed at Russia or China. What non-NATO nations have missiles and nuclear weapons capable of hitting our NATO allies? -- Which non-state actors (terrorists) have ICBMs, mid-range, or short-range missiles? None have nuclear weapons. Conversely, how many countries have access to the internet? -- China and Russia have demonstrated capabilities w/r/t executing cyberwarfare/cyberterrorism. -- Non-state actors (terrorists) have excelled at exploiting cyberspace: SecDef Gates “It is just plain embarrassing that al-Qaeda is better at communicating its message on the internet than America.” -- Al Qa'eda has it's own media and internet 'company.' On capability: much greater with execution of cyberterrorism, cyberwarfare, and cybercrime. Motivation: States: I would assert is low. -- Non-state actors: Big Al Qa’eda has indicated that they consider nuclear (along w/biological) to be strategic weapons they would like to acquire. I don’t see any evidence that AQ would differentiate between an improvised nuclear device (*not* a radiological dispersal device/RDD or ‘dirty bomb’) or suicide detonation of a bought/stolen/whatever nuclear warhead and one on a missile. Yes – see discussion above w/r/t actions of China, Russia, etc. -- Additionally, the US National Intelligence Council’s (NIC) “Key Judgments” from the April 2006 National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) on “Trends in Global Terrorism: Implications for the United States, asserted “We judge that groups of all stripes will increasingly use the Internet to communicate, propagandize, recruit, train, and obtain logistical and financial support.” On motivation: -- state actors much greater with execution of cyberterrorism, cyberwarfare, and cybercrime. -- non-state actors: perhaps equal. In summary, back to qualitative threat analysis: there is greater capability and greater vulnerability w/r/t cyber attacks and perhaps equal of greater motivation, therefore threat from cyber attacks is greater than threat of missile attack. DNI’s unclassified threat assessment – cyber threat assessment starts on page 18 of the pdf file/excerpts here. --- ---- --- And in case ya don’t believe accept my threat analysis, one final bon mot: (Coincidently (?)), LTG Ray Odierno (recently nominated to be the Army’s Vice Chief of Staff and who has spent some time recently, ahh last 3 years, in Iraq) stressed the cyber threat in conversation with Ralph Peters, as reported in Peter’s NY Post Op-Ed column “Lessons from the General” Friday: “We need to better understand the cyber-world piece. It's critical to our enemies.” VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

I *love* it and love his latest, particularly “Radio Nowhere.” I also like a lot of Toby Keith’s music, which has some very ‘red-state’-esque sentiments. And he’s never hesitated to express those in concert. Heck, in 2003 it was the “Shock 'N Y'all Tour.” And there’s the never apolitical outspoken individual rights-2nd amendment supporter, Ted Nugent. ----- --- ----- I’m not sure how one separates politics and issues of the day from music … or art … or literature. I guess I’m part of the minority opinion that finds that music inspired by passionate convictions – whether or not I agree with them – is more powerful. I don’t understand how the thread title “a life without consequences” relates to the topic discussed. The former is a profound concept – no consequences to one’s life? I’m missing the connection. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

If you’re genuinely interested, an easy way to find out is to search www.thomas.loc.gov/, which is funded by your tax dollars

That's the question being asked by one NY City school. Over the last couple weeks there have been suggestions that problems in the American primary education system are attributable to certain factors ranging from the NEA to the rise of right-wing fundamentalist Christianity, and that the solutions range from home schooling to not home schooling. I’ll toss out a couple more speculative hypotheses. To be explicitly clear, I am not asserting either as the single or even likely major independent variables. -- The ‘coolness’ factor of being a ‘jerk’ or ‘punk’ or ‘stoopid’. -- While there are some absolutely fabulous teachers in the public education system: I am the product of public education in the 1980s and 1990s. I thank those fantastic teachers! Before WWII, the primary professional opportunities available to women were nurse, secretary, or teacher. In the 20 years after the end of WWII, a lot more professions were legally and socially opened to women. Today, ~50% of the law degrees and ~50% of the doctorates in the life sciences are awarded to women (some fields, like engineering & the physical sciences, are still 80% or more male-dominated ). Half the population previously was essentially restricted to 3 professions; they are now able to do almost anything (remaining exceptions being certain combat military fields). Heck, I have thanked a deity on multiple occasions that *someone else* wants to teach kindergarten because that would drive me crazy and would not be productive for the students! And most of those ‘other’ professions pay better. The pool for teachers, a female-dominated field has been diluted – the best & brightest have other options, and in a free market, they frequently go after the ones that pay more. (I’m quite confident that I’m not the first to pose this hypothesis.) The underlying question is being asked by one NY City school -- will schools improve if teachers are paid better? Flat organization – no vice principals. The model is one in which the equivalent to the CEO – the principal – makes less work than the workers (the teachers). Success is dependent on the teachers. One could ask if this is an experiment that might suggest that criticality in any school? Commend the school for not ‘stacking the deck’ – they’re not doing this in an upscale suburb but tackling a ‘tough’ challenge. “A New York City charter school set to open in 2009 in Washington Heights will test one of the most fundamental questions in education: Whether significantly higher pay for teachers is the key to improving schools. “The school, which will run from fifth to eighth grades, is promising to pay teachers $125,000, plus a potential bonus based on schoolwide performance. That is nearly twice as much as the average New York City public school teacher earns, roughly two and a half times the national average teacher salary and higher than the base salary of all but the most senior teachers in the most generous districts nationwide. “The school’s creator and first principal, Zeke M. Vanderhoek, contends that high salaries will lure the best teachers. He says he wants to put into practice the conclusion reached by a growing body of research: that teacher quality — not star principals, laptop computers or abundant electives — is the crucial ingredient for success. “The school will open with seven teachers and 120 students, most of them from low-income Hispanic families. At full capacity, it will have 28 teachers and 480 students. It will have no assistant principals, and only one or two social workers. Its classes will have 30 students. In an inversion of the traditional school hierarchy that is raising eyebrows among school administrators, the principal will start off earning just $90,000. In place of a menu of electives to round out the core curriculum, all students will take music and Latin. Period. “‘This is an approach that has not been tried in this way in American education, and it opens up a slew of fascinating opportunities,’ said Frederick M. Hess, director of education policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute. ‘That $125,000 figure could have a catalytic effect.’ “The school’s teachers will be selected through a rigorous application process outlined on its Web site, www.tepcharter.org, and run by Mr. Vanderhoek. There will be telephone and in-person interviews, and applicants will have to submit multiple forms of evidence attesting to their students’ achievement and their own prowess; only those scoring at the 90th percentile in the verbal section of the GRE, GMAT or similar tests need apply. The process will culminate in three live teaching auditions.” /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

[I’ve expressed my absolute condemnation of torture by any & all parties repeatedly and strongly enough to not need to repeat it.] What’s particularly intriguing about this particular veto to me is the inversion the usual perceptions on the civilian-military divide. From NPR’s http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88008106Weekend Edition Saturday: “Bush ignored the advice of 43 retired generals and admirals and 18 national security experts, including former secretaries of state [including former Sec of State Colin Powell, GEN USA (ret) - nerdgirl] and national security advisers, who supported the bill. “The bill would have limited the CIA to 19 interrogation techniques that are used by the military and spelled out in the Army Field Manual [FM 2-22.3, updated 2006 - nerdgirl]. Bush said he vetoed the measure because it is important for the CIA to have a separate and classified interrogation program for suspected terrorists who possess critical information about possible plots against the United States.” In January, the Director of National Intelligence (DNI), Mike McConnell (Vice Admiral, USN (ret)), acknowledged “‘If I had water draining into my nose, oh God, I just can't imagine how painful! Whether it's torture by anybody else's definition, for me it would be torture.’ McConnell said the legal test for torture should be ‘pretty simple. Is it excruciatingly painful to the point of forcing someone to say something because of the pain?” *Notionally,* the concept of having ‘separate’ and ‘classified’ interrogation program for the intelligence community is reasonable assuming there is effective, robust oversight. One problem is what constitutes the “enhanced interrogation techniques” beyond what is allowed in FM 2-22.3 that President Bush authorized for the CIA (& DIA?) last summer in an executive order. From President Bush’s statement w/r/t the veto of HR 2082, the "Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008”: “The Army Field Manual is directed at guiding the actions of nearly three million active duty and reserve military personnel in connection with the detention of lawful combatants during the course of traditional armed conflicts, but terrorists often are trained specifically to resist techniques prescribed in publicly available military regulations such as the Manual. “My disagreement over section 327 [of HR 2082] is not over any particular interrogation technique; for instance, it is not over waterboarding, which is not part of the current CIA program. Rather, my concern is the need to maintain a separate CIA program that will shield from disclosure to al Qaeda and other terrorists the interrogation techniques they may face upon capture. In accordance with a clear purpose of the "Military Commissions Act of 2006," my veto is intended to allow the continuation of a separate and classified CIA interrogation program that the Department of Justice has determined is lawful and that operates according to rules distinct from the more general rules applicable to the Department of Defense.” What about non-traditional armed conflicts? “Other provisions of the bill purport to require the executive branch to submit information to the Congress that may be constitutionally protected from disclosure, including information the disclosure of which could impair foreign relations, the national security, the deliberative processes of the Executive, or the performance of the Executive's constitutional duties…. In addition, section 406 would require a consolidated inventory of Special Access Programs (SAPs) to be submitted to the Congress.” So there’s also an element of Executive privilege to which the Administration is objecting Congress’ attempt to exert oversight. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

So are you volunteering yourself & your services? /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

Neat. Thanks for the update & link. Looking at your website - the LZ is the Syangboche airstrip, yes? I've been curious about that since the trip was announced. Should be gorgeous! Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

There’s also the 12th Amendment (original method for choosing VP), which concludes “But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United State.” (The 20th partially superseded the 12th w/r/t method for choosing the VP.) So one Constitutional question: does the intent of the last sentence of the 12th remain viable/applicable, which has nothing to do w/the original method for electing VP? If yes, does the 22nd (mentioned above) make former President Bill Clinton “constitutionally ineligible”? While not a legal scholar, I would argue yes. Strategically, if I was advising Senator Clinton’s campaign I would advise against pursuit of that option for a variety of reasons, including but not limited to former President Clinton's greater effectiveness as a roving global ambassador … something of a 21st century James T. Kirk for goodwill toward America around this planet. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

I just got a bunch delivered to me - I love the library! Sharon Weinberger's Imaginary Weapons: A Journey through the Pentagon's Scientific Underworld looks like a easy and entertaining read. Interview from the Daily Show. Also got Ethics and Weapons of Mass Destruction ... but not sure if that's typical holiday reading. /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

A skydiver from Hollister served in Africa (Cameroon, IIRC) in 2005-06. She checks into here occasionally but doesn't post much. I'd be happy to connect you with her privately, if she hasn't already PM'd you. She had an experience that I think is definitely worth hearing. My mom was in the 2nd group that went out in 1963 - am very proud of her for that! VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

I would argue Locke was a unitarian, universalist theist. Bloom makes that connection/assertion that Locke was a ‘secret’ atheist through his endorsement of Hobbes and a-biblical theism (more unitarian-universalist) and as inalienable rights were adopted as part of the Declaration of Independence (particularly evident if you go to Jefferson’s “Original Rough Draught”) and the Constitution: “The notion that man possesses inalienable natural rights, that they belong to him as an individual prior, both in time and in sanctity, to any civil society, and that civil societies exist for and acquire their legitimacy from ensuring those rights, is an invention of modern philosophy. Rights are new in modernity, not a part of the common-sense language of politics or of classical political philosophy. Hobbes initiated the notion of rights, and it was given its greatest respectability by Locke.” (Bloom, p. 165). ..... One of Bloom’s protegees, formerly University of Chicago/now apparently at Columbia Mark Lilla, expounded on the thesis in The Stillborn God: Religion, Politics, and the Modern West. Lilla authored a piece featured in NY Times Sunday Magazine last year: “Hobbes was neither a liberal nor a democrat. He thought that consolidating power in the hands of one man was the only way to relieve citizens of their mutual fears. But over the next few centuries, Western thinkers like John Locke, who adopted his approach, began to imagine a new kind of political order in which power would be limited, divided and widely shared; in which those in power at one moment would relinquish it peacefully at another, without fear of retribution; in which public law would govern relations among citizens and institutions; in which many different religions would be allowed to flourish, free from state interference; and in which individuals would have inalienable rights to protect them from government and their fellows. This liberal-democratic order is the only one we in the West recognize as legitimate today, and we owe it primarily to Hobbes. In order to escape the destructive passions of messianic faith, political theology centered on God was replaced by political philosophy centered on man. This was the Great Separation.” VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

Concur. Sen McCain on foreign policy, defense policy, national security Sen Obama on foreign affairs, defense, energy, healthcare, education Analysis of the Senators Obama, Clinton & Edward's policies on nuclear weapons, terrorism, and deterrence [Edit to add: in which I am most critical of the Cold War-esque strategies of Sen Clinton.] Again, can you show where someone actually made that statement? It seems to be a red herring. Whereas, actual quotes from just the last 4 months in Speakers Corner, with which you didn't seem to take issue: Maybe something like: "It's that time of the month boys; who can I blow up this time?" VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

He also railed pretty strongly against rock-n-roll. Mick Jagger was a specific target, IIRC. One of my favorite quotes from the Ivy League Professor's book, which may reflect my approach to Speakers Corner as well: "The questions are all there. They only need to be addressed continuously and seriously for liberal learning to exist; for it does not consist so much in answers as in the permanent dialogue." Bloom argued for a broad, rigorous, analytical liberal arts education ... perhaps not so different from Jacoby's thesis linked by the OP? He became the proverbial 'poster child' for a certain right-wing political agenda that ironically, if one *actually* read the book, was not there. (He also basically accused the Founding Fathers of being 'card-carrying' Hobbesian & Lockean *atheists* and that duty/obligation should precede rights. ) I speculate that, if alive today, he would be vitrioloically opposed to the commodification of higher education ... & the Internet (he died in 1992, before NCSA launched MOSAIC) and wireless-everything. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

As the subjects of China’s percentage of the US foreign debt, its standing army, and the relation to the US politics/economics frequently arise in threads here, some might be interested in the DoD’s latest annual report to Congress on the Military Power of the People’s Republic of China. Impact of environmental issues are included. Lots of data, maps, charts, and acronyms.

Interesting ... Is "descriptive" synonmous with "positivism"? I'd never thought of the normative (loosely, how things 'should' be, i.e., prescriptive)/positive (loosely, how things 'are,' objective description) dichotomy like that before. Curious-neat. It's almost an inversion of the usual colloquial "liberal" ='s rainbows-dolphins-daisies idealist/conservative ='s pragmatic realist dichotomy.

Naw ... just toss over some virtual chocolate. I'm just a primary data addict & a huge advocate of open source (OSINT). /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying