nerdgirl

Respectfully, I disagree. Functional genomics (epigenetics) isn’t challenging the concept of DNA as fundamental molecular of transfer of genetic information and inheritance; it’s further expanding the understanding of it. Somewhat akin to the difference & level of knowledge one has about skydiving on one’s fifth jump to what one knows about rigs, packing, flying your body, formations, spotting (hopefully!), launching exits, etc. on one’s 1000th jump. It's part of molecular biology. To be explicit: No one is asserting functional genomics doesn’t exist nor is anyone (technically competant) asserting that it's going to replace nuclear DNA as the long-term storage molecule of genetic information. They are very interesting concepts. The problem is there’s no evidence of the *degree of causality* that you seem to imply. It’s just not there. And it’s not brand new either: Prof Barbara McClintock’s painstaking & tedious work on maize from the 1950s, for which she was awarded the Nobel Prize, showed the role that epi-mutations can have on phenotype. (She also showed that they weren’t usually stable.) The interest and discoveries in functional genomics (epigenetics) over the last 10-15 years have focused on disease incidence and suppression and have largely been do to the availability of new & automated instrumentation & techniques. If it’s not genetic, by what mechanism do you think information is being passed along from parent to child? You almost sound like you’re implying a non-DNA-based method? ‘Epigentic inheritance’ still refers to changes to/on the genome. What percentage of information (genetic material) comes via the backbone/nuclear DNA inherited from the mother and father? (One metaphorical ‘back of the envelope’ approach to calculating would be to subtract the overlap w/our nearest genetic ancestor.) Epigenetic changes are not always stable, i.e., may last for one/couple/few generations, such as seen in corn and mouse phenotypes (appearance/coloring) that were subsequently lost. What happened in the 3rd & 4th generations of offspring of those from the Dutch WWII famine? If a changes results in a significant abnormality, it may be tremendously important to those individuals and their families. Very small changes can have large effects … a small effect … or no effect (more likely scenario). Stepping back I’m wondering is it the science that’s driving your hypotheses or environmentalism/environmental politics? For sake of argument, let’s assume (momentarily) that the scenario you are portraying is accurate. If the epigenetic rate of change that you are implying occurred, what would be the impact on the ability of humans to successfully reproduce with humans who have been isolated from each other for 40,000 years (the major human migration to Australia & South Pacific)? It wouldn’t be positive. The genome (all portions) has to be fairly stable over long periods of time or Europeans and Australian aboriginals would not be able to have children together. There have been lots of natural environmental factors over the last 40,000 years. You sited the Dutch famine of WWII; even more impacting was European exposure to smallpox, measles, typhus, and tuberculosis, since the disease-organisms crossed the species boundary from their zoonotic origin. One speculative hypothesis is that epigenetics suggests that the human genome (& all others by implication) are more robust/resilient & temporarily adaptable -- improvisation on the genome level -- to environmental challenges than might be previously expected. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

And specifically w/r/t USG policy (as opposed to religious dogma/doctrine), Rev Hagee has asserted that American foreign policy towards Palestine is causing God to attack the US with terrorists, implying that the attacks of Sept 11th 2001 were the fault of of US foreign policy. Both Rev Falwell and Rev Robertson have had long-standing spiritual advisory relationships with many political figures. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

Methylation is a reversible mechanism, that regulates transcriptional activity. Mutations (deletions, insertions or single nucleotide exchange) are irreversible ... Yes, sometimes it is … as you probably know, most biological modifications are reversible, e.g., protein phosphorylation, oxygen binding to hemoglobin & myoglobin (moving oxygen from lungs to blood and storing it), cytochrome P-450 function (eliminating alcohol via the liver -- very important in the skydiving community). They have to be: reversibility is essential for functioning as biological signals that can respond to changing physiological cues. DNA methylation, specifically histone methylation, was considered to be an exception (i.e., to be irreversible) because removal of a methyl group from DNA must involve a cleavage of a carbon–carbon bond, which from an energy and sterics perspective was considered an unlikely reaction. Now it’s understood to not be. Diverging from the original question in this thread as you may also likely know, the majority of functional genomics (epigenetics) research is not toward hereditary but is being directed at exploring mechanisms involved in aging and disease and therapeutics, e.g., the potential reversibility is being exploited as a route to chemotherapeutics for tumor suppression. Of greater interest to me has been some of the work looking at alkylation of (& thereby potential prevention of the irreversible mutation of) Guanine (one of the DNA bases) and proteins (thereby potentially providing diagnostic markers) by sulfur mustard (aka “mustard gas,” tho’ its *not* a gas at any human physiological temps & pressures) and nitrogen mustard. It’s such an effective irreversible alkylating agent (among other reasons) that while the DoD can use live VX and GB (sarin) for live indoor training at the CDTF at Fort Leonard Wood, to do live training with sulfur mustard one has to go up to Suffield Canada. Otoh, sometimes DNA methylation is irreversible; protein methylation is irreversible, e.g., arginine is the classic example; sometimes it leads to other chemical changes that are irreversible; & sometimes the change is passed along to offspring. It’s cool, it’s complicated, and eventually takes us back to my original notation: “In order for you to pass along a trait, it has to be part of your DNA” as opposed to long-term potentiation between neurons (memory). VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

And at one point, you could get a special sticker allowing one to drive in the HOV (High Occupancy Vehicle) lanes in Virginia. /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

It says more about his opponenets, does it not? I think it says more about the American electorate and who the majority of those who vote (which was what percent of the voting eligible populace?) wanted to represent them. ------ ------ While it is sometimes hard to stifle a chuckle at President Bush's malapropisms because they are sometimes very funny, I don’t find games/jokes/whatever that mock/malign/ridicule the President to be useful. He was elected the by those Americans who exercised their right to vote, therefore ultimately we are mocking/maligning/ridiculing our own system and ourselves. (NB: please don't interpret that as in anyway asserting that policies should not be challenged/able.) VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

Playing out the scenario Congress is suspended for 10 years. The Federal Budget goes into continuing resolutions (CR) for the next ten years. FY09 budget is (by law when on CRs) only 80% of FY08 budget (~$2.9T). No new projects can be initiated, and there are no more supplementals, i.e., no more funding for OIF (aka “the Iraq War”) – that may be an unintended consequence of the scenario. FY10 budget … well, it either remains 80% of FY08 budget (~$2.32T) or 80% of the FY09 budget ($1.86T). CRs haven't extended beyond a single fiscal year before, afaik. If the former, you lose 20% each year, which is one way to decrease the federal budget. First to go: Government contracts to private companies, FFRDCs, etc., which will not be renewed nor new contracts initiated, i.e., government contractors will lose their jobs first. Eventually, all individuals paid by the federal govt no longer receive paychecks. Mandatory spending will still have to be paid (debt, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid). In FY08, mandatory spending was ~$1.79T. If you lose 20% each year, by FY11 the federal budget is below that value ($1.49T), assuming no increase for inflation or additional debt). If not, taking into account inflation, interest, and other conservative estimates of cost increases, how long until mandatory spending encompasses the whole federal budget? VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

All 5 redacted volumes of the Iraqi Perspectives Project’s “Saddam and Terrorism: Emerging Insights from Captured Iraqi Documents” report done by the Institute for Defense Analyses (IDA) for JFCOM are available online as of 20 March. The DoD’s decision to not issue an official press release/statement release nor release the report online but to instead send copies of the unclassified, cleared for public release report via US mail on cd was discussed last week in the post “IRAQ - The New Vacation Hot Spot!.” VR/Marg ... still waiting on my own cd to come through the US mail --- ---- ---- "A Defense Department-sponsored report that examined captured Iraqi documents for indications of links between Saddam Hussein and terrorist organizations is now available online. "The five-volume report affirmed that there was 'no "smoking gun" (i.e., direct connection) between Saddam’s Iraq and al Qaeda.' But it also said there was 'strong evidence that links the regime of Saddam Hussein to regional and global terrorism.' "Although the report was publicly released on March 13, the Department of Defense declined to publish it online, offering instead to provide copies on disk. "The Defense Intelligence Agency 'made every effort to balance national security concerns, requirements of law, and the needs of an informed democracy and focused the redactions to the necessary minimum,' the report states. The Iraqi documents themselves are an eclectic, uneven bunch. One of them, a fifty-page Iraqi 'intelligence' analysis, disparages the austerely conservative Wahhabi school of Islam by claiming that its eighteenth century founder, Ibn ‘Abd al Wahhab, had ancestors who were Jews. In what must be the only laugh-out-loud line in the generally dismal five-volume report, the Iraqi analysis states that Ibn ‘Abd al Wahhab’s grandfather’s true name was not 'Sulayman' but 'Shulman.' [emphasis - nerdgirl] "'Tawran confirms that Sulayman, the grandfather of the sheikh, is (Shulman); he is Jew from the merchants of the city of Burstah in Turkey, he had left it and settled in Damascus, grew his beard, and wore the Muslim turban, but was thrown out for being voodoo.' "The analysis, produced by the Air Defense Security System of Iraq’s General Military Intelligence Directorate, is not a very reliable guide to Islamic or Jewish history, though it may explain something about Iraq’s air defenses. “'The Birth of Al-Wahabi Movement and Its Historic Roots' appears in volume 5 of the Defense Department report and is also directly available in this extract'" Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

That's really neat! Thanks! /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

That’s a great recommendation. Of all the arguments put forth on this list that I’ve read over the last few years in the gun threads, the most effective came from [Rookie120]. He posted a link to a video last fall (?) that featured a calm, non-condescending, non-belittling, reasonably-dressed (i.e., didn’t look like a proverbial poster child for the ‘Michigan militia’), former police-officer from California (IIRC) who demonstrated visually how difficult (one might assert meaningless) categorizing guns as “assault weapons” based on visual appearance is. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

Not strictly true. Like I said earlier, go google "Epigenetics famine". Yes & no … And generically true. It also depends on how precisely define DNA. Epigenetics is also/more commonly known as functional genomics. The word “epigenetic” literally means “in addition to the genetic sequence.” What molecule is (most commonly) altered in epigenetic changes? DNA. Second most commonly altered molecule is RNA. For those who don’t remember their high school biology, natural DNA (& RNA) is a long strand of nucleotides. Nucleotides are made of 3 parts: a nitrogenous base, a sugar, and phosphate groups. In DNA, the bases are adenine, cytosine, guanine, thymine (ACGT). (To be precisely correct, in RNA, uracil replaces thymine.) Epigenetics is adding other chemicals onto the DNA (or RNA) that produce a mutation on the genome. The classic example is adding a methyl group (-CH3) onto cytosine-containing nucleotide that occurs next to a guanine-containing nucleotide in DNA (called a “CpG site”). It's the bases that are the most common targets, which are along the inside of the DNA helix somewhat akin to rungs on a latter. So it's sticking a extra hydrophobic (i.e., doesn't like water) piece off of that rung. That change may, or may not, impact how the cellular genetic material transcribes a protein. When folks talk about changes in DNA structure, it’s most commonly, but not always, a shorthand for changes to the bases, e.g., a single nucleotide polymorphism (or “SNP” pronounced “snip”); or a Insertion/Deletion (“InDel”) of a number of nucleotides. In order for an epigenetic change to be passed along it has to occur on the DNA of the eggs or the sperm. You can’t pass along epigenetic changes that occur after, which may be beneficial, as mutations (generally) increase as we age. Altho’ to touch on one area of epigenetics that is controversial and has significant implications considering changing demographics of developed world’s populations: there is significant evidence that autism is associated with epigenetic changes in the DNA in sperm of men over 40. *More importantly,* within the context of the original poster's question, no one is proposing “epigenetics;” or “junk” DNA; or RNAi; or any of the other cutting edge work being done is proposing that it accounts for assertions of past life memory. VR/Marg ... who was a Viking princess in a former lifetime! Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

Starting at the top … seems like a good place. You ask some questions that go to the heart of the cognitive neurosciences, a field which has seen tremendous leaps in the last 20 years due to the develop of new imaging tools like functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging (fMRI) and due to tremendous advances is genomics and proteomics. Part of the question is defining what do you mean by “genetic memory”? In neurosciences/cognitive sciences/biology, “memory” refers to a process by which connections are made between neurons (long term potentiation and plasticity through synapses). When you make new connections (form memories that are kept long term), those memories are written on the brain in the language of proteins, neurochemicals connections, and synapses. They aren’t written into your DNA or genes. In order for you to pass along a trait, it has to be part of your DNA. Mutations do occur in DNA (like those that cause cancers or occasionally a mutation that enables a beneficial trait, e.g., opposable thumbs). In short, no, you can’t genetically pass onto your children your ability to turn 16 points in 20 seconds anymore than you can pass along the ability to weave in a traditional Navajo design, translate ancient Sumerian, or play Led Zeppelin’s “Stairway to Heaven.” All of those ‘memories’ involve long-term potentiation in your brain not encoding on your DNA, which you recognized: “Anything that occurred after that instant in time [conception & first miosis] could not be passed down.” And it also answers why you don’t have the memories of your ancestors nor will your children have knowledge of what you did in your teens and twenties, perhaps a good thing, eh? (NB: which is not to say that you will not be able to pass along genes that you inherited that convey aptitude in sports, language, handicrafts, or music – it’s the specific skill acquisition and memories that are learned.) Otoh, instinct is behavior that one could describe as a result of DNA coding for the creation of certain proteins that generate certain neurochemicals &/or enzymes that have certain influences on certain, sometimes very specific, parts of the brain. (And that’s the simplified version.) There are clear examples where our genes (& every other creature of the planet’s genes) code for proteins that create chemicals that influence behavior, e.g., fear and adrenaline; maternal love and oxytocin. There are others where our brains appear to be ‘wired’ to be pre-disposed/influence-able (instinct) to learning certain behaviors (learned behavior) that elicit release of specific neurochemicals: love, language structure, creativity. Historically, there’s a connected fascinating (im-ever-ho) example of how political dogma inhibited lack of scientific progress. Joseph Stalin was opposed to genetics and evolution – it challenged Marxist tendencies. A form of Lamarckism, (“genetic memory,” which was mentioned previously by [jakee]) -- known as Lysenkoism named after its chief proponent and Stalin sycophant Trofim Lysenko -- was institutionalized (in a “Stalinist” way) in 1930s Soviet Union. Ideology trumped science and Lysenkoism influenced Soviet agricultural policy, which led to crop failures and famine that likely killed more Russians and others under Soviet rule than WWII. So while the USSR was ideologically trying to challenge genetics because it didn’t fit with Stalin’s ideology, the western world was rapidly unraveling the structure of DNA, understanding the role of gene, and eventually transgenics (aka genetic engineering). It was ultimately beneficial to the US and western world that the Soviet dogma enforced such a mistaken belief, because otherwise the Soviet offense biological weapons program would have been even farther along than they were. If you’re interested in reading more: my favorite neuroscience text, Principles of Neural Science, which is known just by its initials known as “KJS” for the initials of its 3 principles editors, somewhat akin to what we mean when we talk about “BSRs”. It’s a fabulously written volume, considered authoritative, and the most recent edition is only 1400 pages. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

Thanks for the analysis and reference. I made my 'prediction' on the case back in December: The strict interpretationalists (e.g., Justices Scalia & Thomas) will look to the 2nd Amendment ... but in the numbers game to get a majority, it will take those who don't adhere to strict interpretationalism (e.g., Justices Kennedy & Breyer) who are likely (imo) to argue unilateral laws are an "undo burden" and argue from privacy rights. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

Lock the door? Heck, at “6:30pm” (when the protest march is scheduled to depart) the door is likely to be locked anyway & everyone gone home. How difficult will/would it be to identify “Dawn Butterfly & David Flowerpants” leading a “torchlit” march pushing/carrying/whatever a “movable cage,” down the street? (Are torches even legal w/in Pittsburgh? Los Angeles restricts the length of sticks which one can carry inside the city.) Army recruiters and the local police have information (G2) on what the civilians are planning. This isn’t a job for the proverbial or literal cavalry; interacting with the media is a job for public affairs specialists. If warranted, interacting w/citizens is a job for the local police. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

Congrations! & Best wishes! /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

Wow! That’s intense ... & heartbreaking. Thank you for posting that link. I would likely have missed the story otherwise. I strongly suspect many of us support organizations individually, as part as of groups, or as part of our work that has direct impact. Soldiers’ Angels is one that I’ve been involved with for the last three years. Just finished 2nd year volunteering with eCYBERMISSION,” the Army’s “web-based science, math and technology competition for 6th through 9th grade teams,” composed of soldiers children from around the world. I had one group in Germany doing some serious electronics! I do acknowledge the latter is indirect support. Are you willing to organize the kind of effort you propose? VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

Aka “stability operations” as part of stability, security, transition, & reconstruction (!) /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

No, it doesn't. In fact, you've now actually identified the real "tiny fraction". I’m not sure that the *per capita* number individuals willing to pursue politically or religiously motivated violence against civilians (i.e., terrorism) as a tactic is larger among one religious extremist group or another. I’d be very curious to see a comparative assessment. What happens to the *per capita* numbers if one starts to consider Irish-Americans supporting - tacitly and with direct financial contributions - the IRA and other Irish nationalist ‘resistance’ groups though the 1990s? Tacit support for terrorist tactics seems to be a possible major factor (independent variable). Hmmm? There's also a different calculus when considering domestic vs external attacks -- attacks that hurt/injure/kill one's neighbors or threaten one's economic prosperity are more often met with descrease in tacit &/or direct support, e.g., as was the case in North Ireland when the Provisional IRA assassinated the manager of a Du Pont Chemical facility located near Londonderry in February 1977. In 1976, Du Pont Chemical Company was the largest single employer in Londonderry County. In dealing with an internal, domestic threat in which the sub-state actors were dependent on the local populace, threats to the infrastructure and indigenous economy were unsuccessful. The campaign to target businessmen was “dropped quietly: without any public declaration.” Conversely in May 2004, radical Islamicists targeted employees at a Yanbu, Saudi Arabia petrochemical facility owned ABB Lummus Global Inc. Among those fatally shot were two Americans, two Britons, one Australian, one Canadian and one Saudi. Additionally, the body of the American plant manager was tied behind a Honda Accord and dragged through the streets. Slowing as they drove past a (boys) school, one of the terrorists reportedly “pointed to the blood-soaked and battered body of the American engineer and said, ‘This is the president of America.’” The industrial executive’s corpse became a brutalized effigy of the US President. The individual was viewed as inseparable from policies to which the terrorists objected, and furthermore, the battering of the plant manager’s body was gruesomely displayed by the terrorists as a pedagogical tool to young Saudi boys. The attack was also used in an effort to encourage Saudi nationals to join insurgent resistance to OIF. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

I’m going to quibble with both of you – two of my favorite challenging, smart, & thoughtful SC folks

Another one to add to your list of ‘homegrown terrorists’: William J. Krar of Tyler Texas, who pled guilty to possessing chemical weapons. Krar was affiliated with right-wing, anti-government, white-supremacy groups. Among Krar’s seized weapons cache, in a Texas self-storage unit, were 2 homebuilt sodium cyanide (NaCN) munitions: combining 800 g sodium cyanide + strong oxidizing acids in old ammo box to generate cyanide gas (HCN) or cyanogen chloride (CNCl). Each improvised chemical device (“ICD”) would be (hypothetically) capable of killing almost 6,500 people via percutaneous exposure based on lethal dose for 50% of population (LD50), which for a variety of logistical reasons is an unlikely scenario; or kill 1/2 the people in a 9 x 40 x 40 ft^3 enclosure in one minute (inhalation). Krar also had homemade landmines and a remote-controlled “briefcase device ready for explosive insertion,” i.e., IEDs; 67 pounds of Kinepak solid binary explosives (ammonium nitrate); 66 tubes of Kinepak binary liquid explosives (nitromethane); military detonators; trip wire; electric and non-electric blasting caps; and cases of atropine syringes (i.e., the antidote for nerve agent exposure (!)). Krar was interdicted because he sent a package containing fake birth certificates (from multiple states), driver’s license, concealed weapons permit, a DoD DIA badge, and a UN badge -- all with the same picture & different names -- to the wrong address on Staten Island … along with a note: “Hope this package gets to you O.K., we would hate to have this fall into the wrong hands.” The inadvertent recipients opened the package and rather than forwarding it to another right-wing, anti-government, white-supremacy affiliate, New Jersey Militia member Edward Feltus, the folks called the police who called the FBI. Krar eventually pled guilty to building and possessing chemical weapons and was sentenced to 11y/3months in federal prison. When I give talks on chemical terrorism, to be somewhat intentionally provocative (also helps make sure the audience is still awake ), I call it my personal vote for the most under-covered story of 2003 and semi-facetiously state that if Krar’s first name was “Ahmed” or “Mohammed” instead of "William," AG John Ashcroft would have been leading press conferences. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

Within the scenario you proposed: a room full of 12-14 yo’s I’d first re-fine it to ‘liberalism’ and ‘conservatism’ as political philosophies. I would describe conservatism as tending to be more traditional, supportive of long-standing institutions, and favoring slow, prudent change (if any change at all). Tending to be more cautious/less prone to risk (e.g., like conservative investment strategy), i.e., one who wants to ‘conserve’ what they have. Highly valuing personal liberties. I would describe liberalism as tending to be concerned equally with equality and civil, political, and personal liberties and more willing to challenge traditional assumptions or ways of doing things. I’d also note that at its origin the Republican Party most strongly resembled a liberalist political philosophy & a fairly radical one at that! VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

The Pew Research Center reported increasing public optimism regarding Iraq in polling results released at the end of February. Excerpts from the full report: “Public perceptions of the situation in Iraq have become significantly more positive over the past several months, even as opinions about the initial decision to use military force remain mostly negative and unchanged. “The number of Americans who say the military effort is going very or fairly well is much higher now than a year ago (48% vs. 30% in February 2007). There has been a smaller positive change in the number who believe that the U.S. will ultimately succeed in achieving its goals (now 53%, up from 47% in February 2007). “Opinion on the critical question of whether the U.S. should keep troops in Iraq is now about evenly divided, the first time this has happened since late 2006. About half of those surveyed (49%) say they favor bringing troops home as soon as possible, but most of these (33%) favor gradual withdrawal over the next year or two, rather than immediate withdrawal. Similarly, just under half (47%) say that the U.S. should keep troops in Iraq until the situation has stabilized, with most of these (30%) saying that no timetable should be set. “Despite the positive views about progress in many areas, the public remains divided on the question of whether the U.S. presence is helpful or harmful to the Iraqi government. Currently, 44% say that the U.S. military presence does more to weaken the Iraqi government by making them too dependent on us; 43% say that the U.S. presence strengthens the Iraqi government by giving it needed support.” The survey also found that just over a quarter (28%) of the American public is aware of the number of fatalities (3,983, as of 15 Mar 08, as confirmed by the DoD through Friday + 5 named in Defenselink press release today). Otoh, nearly half (49%) thought that the number of deaths was less than 3,000, and another quarter (23%) asserted the number was greater than 4,000. (Summary graphics showing opinions, Feb07, Sep07, Nov07, & Feb08 attached.) Interesting public opinion/perception results taken in context of the election cycle & a NY Times Op-Ed “Winning the Battle, Losing the War” by Jim Willbanks, PhD (LTC Army (ret) & director of the military history department at the United States Army Command and General Staff College, Ft Leavenworth, KS) that followed a few days after release of the Pew Report. excerpts “Historians are often reluctant to draw comparisons between historical events, and this has been especially true for Vietnam and Iraq, because the two wars have more differences than similarities. That being said, however, American military actions today can be informed by one general lesson from the Tet offensive, and that is the importance of not putting the best face on a military situation for political reasons. “To dampen antiwar sentiment, Johnson and Westmoreland encouraged what turned out to be false expectations about our prospects in Vietnam, and this colored Americans’ perception of the Tet offensive, stretching the president’s credibility gap to the breaking point. A tactical victory became a strategic defeat and led to the virtual abdication of President Johnson. General Tran Do of North Vietnam acknowledged that the offensive failed to achieve its objectives, but noted that the public reaction in the United States was ‘a fortunate result.’ “Gen. David Petraeus, commander of coalition forces in Iraq, is a student of the Vietnam War whose doctoral dissertation at Princeton was titled ‘The American Military and the Lessons of Vietnam.’ Clearly, he internalized those lessons, because in discussing the surge and the progress of the war in Iraq he has studiously avoided building undue expectations and has repeatedly said that there will be tough times ahead. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates was likewise careful in his recent comments about re-evaluating troop reduction plans this summer. The wisdom of their approach will become especially evident if insurgents in Iraq engage in any Tet-like offensive this year -- especially with a presidential election looming and the future of the American military commitment in Iraq hanging in the balance.” Again, history is not predictive but should not be ignored either. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

Wouldn't surprise me, particularly the buildings west of the 1-75/1-85 connector (where the Georgia Dome, CNN building, Omni Hotel & Georgia State University are). The major skyscrapers to the east of the downtown connector (1-75/1-85) remain illuminated, which would suggest minimal damage as well as a small tornado on the Northside Dr/MLK Dr area to the freeway (Grady curve). Marg [Edit to add: local CBS affiliate, which has 'slideshow' of damage] Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

Yes, it appears that a tornado -- minimally major wind damage -- took out a small part of the Georgia Dome. The images of damage appear similar to typical tornado damage from the midwest - extremely localized along what resembles the path of a small tornado. No deaths or major injuries reported. Play resumed at the Georgia Dome. The storm did major damage to the CNN Building, the adjacent Omni hotel, Centennial Olympic Park - hotel room chairs propelled into the streets. I'm in the Buckhead area ... north of that area - had small hail, lots of rain, lightening, no apparent damage. /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

No. Advise, yes. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying

I do believe we have reached that point of, as they say, 'violent agreement' here.