PiLFy

Cold Stella beer, right ? To be continued...

Oh, I know that, thank you. It's one of the reasons I don't jump w/one.

Those sound like problems w/opening altitudes being too low, over-stuffed or poorly designed containers, & a rigging error. They don't sound like AAD malfunctions.

Older gear can be perfectly airworthy.

Deal

[Quote]"...but it just demonstrates that it's coming from both sides and it's ridiculous."[/Quote] No, you'd admonished the anti-AAD camp as being the sole guilty party. That was far from true. There's no splitting hairs about it. The text is all right there. 90% of the BS came from a few pro-AADs. They got answered. One pro-AAD person was talking progressively more smack for a while w/no moderation taking place. That it was allowed to devolve to that point is ridiculous. Though, it was probably inevitable here at the circus.

Hey Chuck, I just looked back through this thread. Here's the first attack including the word "Asshole": Scanning through the posts reveals insulting & nonsensical arguments, confrontational/holier-than-thou accusations, heavy ethnocentric & personal biases, & an overall adversarial approach by a vocal minority within the Pro-AAD camp. Most of the worst comments were so far out there that no one bothered replying to them, directly. I respectfully suggest that you reread the thread. You will find a pattern of antagonism, but it's from the other side. Berating people as if they were children, using disingenuous arguments, insulting people's morality & ethics, profane name-calling... All of those actions will get your butt kicked if done in-person. I think a couple of people here hiding behind their keyboards know that. Respect is a two-way street. A number of other pro-AAD posters have respectfully stated their opinions. Grimmie's posts come to mind, here. I've no problem w/that, & would be happy to sit back at the end of the jump day discussing it w/him. However, I won't be repeatedly attacked & insulted by others without responding. Sadly, the devolution of almost any meaningful debate is part & parcel of the Dizzy.com forums. It's why I rarely post. I'm not sure a lengthy, civil debate is possible, here. It was a good idea for a topic, Chuck. I thank you for making the effort.

Chuck, Respectfully, your method of using multiple quotes is misquoting people. You've attributed your words to me, this time.

I love you too, Bill. Can't we all just get along ?

Since we typically get what we pay for that's kind of a scary thought. Agreed. However, apparently they are out there, & riggers have found them to be airworthy.

Not choosing sides on the debate, but to be fair there have been people with arguments pro and con that have been trying to impose their views on others. Chuck, The words you've attributed to Iyosha, are mine. For the record, I haven't tried to impose my views regarding AADs on anyone. I've made no arguments for or against their use. I merely shot down a few false arguments.

I wouldn't jump a Vigil, or a Mars2. Dunno what Wicked Wingsuits would say. I only queried Cloud9 out of curiosity. I don't jump wingsuits, & have no interest in buying an AAD. If I wanted one, I'd have simply bought one years ago. ETA: $6 per month for 20yrs?? Care to figure the interest on that one ??

Do try to pay attention. A number of people have already posted that their complete rigs cost them less than a single AAD.

As usual, an awful lot of BS getting spewed by a few people on Dizzy... Here's your $20 rental fee: "Thank you for reaching out us at Cloud 9 Parachute Leasing LLC. We have the following payment options available for Cypres 2 AADs. (2) month option - $729.89 + tax & shipping (3) month option - $499.33 + tax & shipping (12) month option - $164.53 + tax & shipping These prices are a Lease to Own for new Cypres 2 AAD, at the end of the term you would own the AAD. Please let me know if any of these plans work for you." 150 month service life for a Cypres comes out to $11.50 per month plus interest. If you're going to make your argument towards people of marginal means, do it accurately. Nanny States always start w/a foot in the door technique, because "It's just plain old common sense." Then, they quickly spiral out of control, passing progressively inhibitive laws. The They in those cases being assholes who think they've the right to impose their views on others. That's a Hell of a slippery slope once it starts. Carry on...

This is what I meant. I'm used to seeing the cargo rails you mentioned for securing the single-sided belts. I just wish there were belts on each side, for each jumper. I jump at a few different DZs. I'm happy to say I usually don't see that kind of flippant attitude regarding belting up. Anyone not belting up would be spoken to. I do see a lot of belts that aren't tightened. I also sometimes can't get a belt on a full load if right by the door. I'm not trying to argue w/anyone. It just bothers me that USPA & the FAA both know about this easily mitigated hazard, yet won't enforce corrective action. Not for nuttin, but how much would another 21 sets of belts cost for an Otter?? A whole lot less than the potential consequences.

They weren't configured like that on a Casa I jumped. TBH, I also wasn't crazy about sitting sideways. Looked to be real bad in the advent of a crash.

I meant any two-sided affair that I could better secure myself with. I could run a lap belt through my harness, or use two single attachments through the harness.

Yet almost a full decade after that crash, I've never seen a two-point harness attachment in any jump plane I've ever been on. Why is that? Harnesses can't cost that much.

I found this one to be very informative, as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLJdDXJ9qBI Thank You for posting, OP.

Ohh... Eh, F it. He's still a lot closer to Eloy than I am.

FWIW, I too jump w/contacts. Never had any issues w/Z-flex goggles. Less than $20, & they can be adjusted to fit nice n tight. No need to switch to a fullface (until ya get kicked in the face, one day ).

You're brand new in the sport, & get to train at a world class facility like Skydive Arizona?? You suck, Ben... Oh yeah. Congrats, & welcome to the sport .

And the easier it will be.

As Joe already said, this has come up before. The Dainese units I've seen, press uniformly against the lower edge of a full face helmet. Guess a G3 would be the closest thing to those, but still lacks enough purchase/leverage around the bottom, IMHO. I'd be more afraid of the thing misfiring, than comforted by its protective value.

Those Dainese units have been used in Moto GP racing for a few years, now. Their main purpose is to protect the neck in a crash. They do that by pressing evenly against the bottom of a MC helmet, stabilizing the neck. Jump helmets don't have a prominent lower edge like that. Sorry, but I don't see the application for skydiving, either.