ManagingPrime

I thought you of all people would appreciate the wisdom of the words "the pen is mightier than the sword."

Agreed. It's sad that these are facts. It needs to be addressed. I would love to see a world with zero guns. I would love to see a world where no one ever raised their voice agaist another person, let alone their hands. But we don't live in that world. While we are talking about american violence, let's open up the discussion beyond street violence. Do you care to comment on the amount of violence commited by the american government in relation to other nations? I'm threatened with violence as a result of someone elses actions. That makes me feel all kinds of warm and fuzzy. Humanity at it's finest. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. History can show over and over again where laws infrienged on liberty for the "benefit" of the collective whole with very bad outcomes... that's why america was a special experiment for as long as it was. "We" recognized that and enshrined personal liberty and freedom in our collecrive value system. I have two that live with me. They are amazing and enrich my life. Life is unjust in many ways, but if we value liberty, freedom, justice, truth and peace...and don't turn our backs on those values in the name of expediency we might just be pleased with the outcome. It's to easy to believe in some kind of exceptionalism where we just make it someone elses reponsibilty to make the world the kind of better place that we would all like to see.

And therein lies the rub. You've got on individual who violently killed 26 people. In response, the government tells 10's of millions if not 100+ million americans, "ok. Here's the game plan and if you don't comply your a felon and we'll throw you in prison (another form of violence)...but you should be on-board because maybe...possibly..it could..save one child." As proposed I don't see justice being done. It's not just guns. Everyday new laws are being passed which make otherwise law abiding citizens suspects and criminals. Guns I think are just the line in the sand for many. I'm glad this proposed legislation is not going to pass...we need less violence, not more and this proposed legislation is a great way to get more violence. I think it's fair to revisit the issue in the future. However, for the government to have any credibility it's going to get the rafter out of it's eye before trying to remove the straw from the peoples....

Honestly, I could care less. Lone nut job. Lone sane person. Worked in a group. Conspiracy. AR, AK, single shot 22, RPG... I simply don't care. I don't trust this government or any government...nothing changes that. Narrative is probably quite close to the truth, but most lies are and god knows this government loves to lie. At the end of the day I take responsibility for myself and try to not get caught up in the madness. When I was living on the dropzone (lived in a tent for months) I would commute from the DZ to my day job at JPMC. On the drive there was a point where it was like crossing into a different world. I've been doing the big boy thing and living in the city for about a year now. Society is sick, but where are you going to run to? Who are you going to fight? I don't think anyone is actually interested in addressing the root causes of these issues. The debates are just a way of prolonging the spectacle and getting every bit of entertainment value that we can out of the events. We could debate all this crap in circles, round and round...or we could do something a little more profitable and fun. Heard of bounce bingo? I propose student body count bingo.

I heard later that video showed the weapon removed from the car's trunk was a shotgun. You're right. Wait for the trial. What trial? The shooters dead. This event has been so politicized I doubt the most factual narrative will be served on a silver platter prior to the next shooting which will grab the national headlines.

I never stated it was all about shot placement, that is why I qualified the statement with "all other things being equal." CCW holders are not law enforcement. I would not expect a ccw holder to protect me anymore than I would expect the police too. Matter of fact, I put them both into the catagory of elevated threat vs the average unarmed citizen, but that is kind of besides the point.

Ethics notwithstanding, of course. "Nice ethical business owners plunder the assets of their company then declare bankruptcy when their poor management practices cause the excrement to hit the fan." I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic when he described the owners as "nice" and "ethical." With that in mind, he summed up the information in the article rather well. Playing devils advocate here, but what exactly was unethical? The company was private. They had the sales and the equity to justify the payouts. If there was specific intent to cash out prior to getting hit with lawsuits, that's one thing. But as the plaintiffs own attorney states, there is no evidence of that.

I'm sure many were thankful that there was a cop on site, though. I doubt many of them would have preferred a mere CCW holder. Tell that to the bystanders in nyc that got shot up by the police recently. This appeal to authority used regarding police proficiency with firearms is amus ing. If you are so inclined, look into how often the average police officer is required to qualify with their firearms. All other things being equal, if it came to shot placement I would take the average ccw over the average cop.

In my first week in az there was a beheading and a couple people found shot up in an abandonded car not far at all from where I was living. It caused me to be a bit more aware of the gang/cartel activity in the border states. I'm generally desensitized at this point. I'm just happy it's not my day to day experience like it is for so many.

Good thing we can at least read. Fredric Ellis, a Boston attorney representing several victims, said there is no evidence that the founders “raided” the company’s coffers shortly before it filed for bankruptcy protection. But he said the records show that the company was growing rapidly and generated enormous profits for the owners before it shut down. “They were clearly taking a lot of money out while it was operating,” Ellis said. “They cashed out, no doubt about it.” There is nothing inherently wrong with that. If they knew bk was coming around the corner, "no evidence" of that, it would be a diferent story. As it stands I'm not sure the story is exactly relevant to the professors thesis.

Good thing we can at least read. Fredric Ellis, a Boston attorney representing several victims, said there is no evidence that the founders “raided” the company’s coffers shortly before it filed for bankruptcy protection. But he said the records show that the company was growing rapidly and generated enormous profits for the owners before it shut down.

It sure would be nice if there was national outrage over this shooting, seeing how it's pretty representitive of the majority of gun violence in this country. Something tells me its not going to be much more than a footnote.....hmmm I wonder why that is?

You don't often see business owners, outside of predator funds, engaging in that kind of activity. Members of the executive suite however.... People that put their lifes work or their retirement funds into a company don't often like to see it pillaged. Sorry to be nit picky there, but the title caught my eye and you didn't give much to work with. Link?

The sad thing is, I think most of the people who responded to this thought I was serious. It's not exactly inconsistent with what others have said.

Oooh, that sounds so "street." Man, you sure must know a lot about gangs! I watch MTV and A&E from time to time.

Meh. Whatever. Oh, well, at least I got to start a gun thread. http://www.click2houston.com/news/Pct-4-Multiple-people-shot-at-Lone-Star-College/-/1735978/18233132/-/format/rss_2.0/-/6a4ut7z/-/index.html Gang-bangers go to college? I didn't see mention they were gang members. What makes you think that? Even more reason to keep the non gang members armed at all times! Lets just sayin certain parts of H-town, wearing a red shirt & a Falcons hat has nothing to do with being a fan of Atlanta's team. Kinda like all the young men around here with the Astro's 'Star' logo tattooed prominently....they ain't hardcore baseball fans...and you most definitely won't see THEM with a Falcons hat! Are you talking about these gangs? http://www.stophoustongangs.org/default.aspx?menuitemid=756&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1 Chuck Yup. I just learned something new.... The Astro's fans are the "Houstone Tango Blast" Can't figure out the Falcons fans, but I'm pretty sure they are some derivative of the bloods. 'Set trippin' at a community college...go figure.

Not the best example. What if one of the guys was an undercover cop? What if one or more of the students ccing responded, which guy do you shoot? What is people responding were even worse shots and more people got hit in the cross fire?

It may be a case of where the devil is in the details, but wasn't there a recent court case that stated police are not required to place themselves in harms way to protect a citizen? More recent than warren vs district of columbia.

Agreed, to a point. I don't presume that the south was full of simple minded bumkins. Supply and demand. I doubt large plantation owns were in the business because it allowed for a life of sitting on the front porch drinking iced tea. As i understand it, the addopted the cotton gin real quick. When the benifits of industrialisation were fully realized, if they were not already, the south had the means to build factories, obtain raw materials, transport goods, etc. I tend tend to view it as competing ideas on how to best utilize human capital. There are all types of slaves. Physical slavery went out for favor for a reason. Wage slavery is better, especially in a republic such as our own... it only makes serse that these two competing ideas would lead to conflict. Edit to add: typing on phone is pita. Please forgive typos.

One could argue that the law, courts, police, etc. Do allow people to ignore the violence. I.e. "it's their problem, not mine". One could go on to argue that kind of mindset allows for a detachment that makes it possible for a sense of personal security. It put it simply, I'm sure members of leo have a much different perception of how violent thier society is vs. the average citizen.

I don't really understand what you are trying to get at. Additionally, I don't find that particular case of violence all that interesting...maybe because it's a part of the new normal. If your interested in mass killings at schools you may find the largest us mass school killing interesting.

Yep, 1 in 12 on average will experience a violent or property theft crime. High enough average for me and mine to be armed and prepared. I think you might want to revisit the numbers. It's not 1 in 12. According to the report in the link it's more like 17 in 1000, less than 2%. Less than a quarter of what you've stated. Nothing to be concerned about, then. Unless you are one of the less than 2% Try 10%+++.... A lot of crimes go unreported. I've never reported an instance of violence against my person of theft of my property, yet I've had both experiences. Per NY Times: Study shows nearly 1 in 5 women report having been sexually assaulted. Another study shows that nearly 15% of all US adults admit they were a victim of domestic violence. To not recognize and confront just how violent our society/species is we not only marginalize the past and future victims of violence, but in essence we victimize them all over again.

I was not assuming that you did. Just wanted to see if there was some special carve our for the civil war. EDIT TO ADD: When history is a little..ummm...opaque regarding motivations I tend to 'follow the money'. So, I can see why the civil war, like many before and after, would be justifiable to many at the time.

If the civil war was not justifiable in your mind, then how would you justify any other war before or after?

Now you are getting somewhere. You think that the north would have led the industrial revolution if slavery continued to exist in the south?