bodypilot1

Thanks Scott. I almost for got what this thread was originally about! Ed www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

I wouldn't agree. I've worked for a DZ where having an TM and AFF rating actually made you less money. Being one of the few AFF rated Instructors at the DZ, you get pulled from the tandem rotation to do an AFF jump, and if done correctly, it will take you longer then doing a tandem, thus by the end of the weekend (your busiest days) you find that the person thats newly tandem rated at 500 jumps, and is the "weekend warrior", has make more jumps and alot more money then you have. Ed www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

Its not free Edited to ad: They do have a 14 day trial period so you can see the video tho..... www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

Having a correct briefing before your jump is what should be done by the instructor, and a brief review of the TLO's are done on the way up to altitude. If you didn't get anything from the instructor besides the briefing on the ride up to altitude, I suggest going to another DZ for your training, or speak with the S&TA about the instruction program your paying for. Ed www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

Same here.... Ed www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

I don't chase parked cars. As I said, I'm sure your a great mentor and I hope we can fly together sometime soon. Be safe. Ed www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

Dont you think this will be growing as more people get into wingsuit flying? I'd say so... Wrong. Nobody said lost, just with a program of teaching set up for flying suit safely and correctly, and before they set up or require one for us. We also had AFF students graduating from AFF in just 7 jumps and had no idea of what a canopy does besides how to open it and land it too right? They have changed that for what reason? Money? NO, for safety. They restructured the program because the sport is growing and needs to have more training to prevent possible accidents. No shit. I have seen AFF Instructors thats cant fly to save their own ass, but they are good at ground training. Wingsuit are meant to be jump by experienced jumpers that already know how to skydive and are current, and a structured program will show we are responsible for being safe in a wingsuit and have been correctly evaluated on thier currency and their ability befor jumping a wingsuit. They will be instructed on emergency procedures in the particular suit and flight patterns for the particular DZ by a qualified person. Your assuming... Your also assuming DZ's will never require some type of documentation that you have been trained by qualified Instructor too. Like I said, as the sport grows and the person with 50-100 jumps shows up at the DZ with a wingsuit he's bought off the internet and attempts to jump it, things will change. I can see you have some sort of problem with the BMI's , BMI rating and it's costs for the BMCI to train new BMI's, since skydiving is mainly what they do for a living and dont do it for free. Should USPA require documentation of wingsuit pilots having training from some sort of Instructor they have implemented into the BSR's in the future, I hope yours is signed off for free.

If you have ever been to a DZ that is unformiliar with wingsuits, you'd know how they are leary of the safety and flight pattern of them being jumped at their DZ. You must only jump mainly only at Perris? With the multiple planes in the air, have you ever had the problem of incorrect wingsuit flight patterns that interfere with another planes jumper and jump run? This would be something covered in the structured program. Not yet, BUT, being PRO active, rather than RE active ,with be easier on "us" as wingsuit flyers! Would you rather have someone that has never flown a wingsuit tell you how to, and what they think works better for safety? Let's cover our bases responsibly, so to speak, before they do. Thats not good, but a BMI does not take some type of "oath" that requires him to teach everyone when they want him to. For instance, you are a student and show up at the DZ and the AFF Instructor is sick and cant jump, do you just say hell, I'll just get training from someone that thinks he's ready for the AFF Instructors course? I'd bet not.... If we had more BMI's or MTR2 or S-Fly Instructors out there, we'd have the resources for getting good instructors at anytime we wanted. Not pesky. This is where you are seperating the person that makes thier living from Instructing, and the person that just does it for fun and wants to give back to the sport. Though he gives the course for FREE it's better he has taught from a structured program and has a rating. I worked for YEARS as a "I dont need the money USPA AFF and Tandem Instructor", because I had a real job out side of skydiving, and never did I think I wanted to teach anything without the proper training and rating to do so. Whether you ever get a wingsuit rating on the type of wingsuit you jump is your choice. All I am saying is it better for the wingsuit community to have a structure program for teaching safety in the particular suit they are going to jump (such as a BM, MTR2 or S-Fly rating), the correct flight patters and a documented log of the the training recieved, and from whom, because eventually it will be required. Glen, I dont knock ya for wanting to get more wingsuits up in the air and not charging a thing for it, hell, I instructed for quite a while giving my pay to the people that did it for a living because I had a real job outside of skydiving. All I am saying is, lets avoid possible accidents or fatalities, by teaching a structured program for the safety of flying wingsuits, and that may mean getting a MT2 or a BMI rating of some sort. But lets make the rules and guideline before someone else does that has never flown a wingsuit. BTW, I'll be down at Perris doing The Right Stuff 16way Oct 30th. I'll be at the DZ on Friday about noon and all day Sunday, I'll have my wingsuit too if you'd like to do some flocking jumps? Be safe

This is news to me and hopefully not true. Though I think structured wingsuit instructional programs are good for safety, I can almost garentee you that some governing body will implement some future program on flying wingsuits, requiring some sort of documentation showing you have been trained properly by a wingsuit instructor of some sort. But thats just my opinion.... Not good event planning there is? Securing the person you planned on coming before the event is a wise idea dont you think? Hero? Who are you kidding? They aren't a HERO for getting students on their first jump, they are just keeping the planes flying to make them money..... Very true. Again possibly true, but the guidelines set by the manufacturer have been taught and that may be all the governing body will want to see for safety so they don't have to get involved. Not all instructors teach the best or fly the best as goes with any discipline in skydiving. There are also people that think jumping at a non USPA rated DZ is more dangerous just because it's not a group member of USPA. The fact is it's their choice as to where they jump and and how they'd like to be trained and whom by. Think what they may, but like I said, when USPA starts requiring some sort documentation they are qualified to jump a wingsuit they'll wish they had done something before hand to have some sort of rating, as their wingsuit sits on the gound when they show up at a DZ that doesn't know they are great in the wingsuit. First, I didn't know there was a rumor, and 2nd I'd like to see wingsuit flyers take the responsability of keeping the first time wingsuit flyer knowledgable on every aspect of the wingsuit and also show the general skydiving community we do have a structured instructional program for which ever suit it is you choose to jump. If you dont agreem with the program BM has in place, remember it's all about CHOICE my friend. Be safe. Ed www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

A DZ or the DZO can do anything they or he wants. They are in it for the money. If your profile is correct, you may want to teach the FJC and do AFF a few years working for a DZ and have a reputable image as a quality Instructor before you try and ask the DZ if it's something they'd be willing to do. Not all DZ's are willing to do do this. I train my own students and jump with my own students. Ed www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

$99 per student. As an Indepented USPA Instructor and contractor, I teach the FJC at whatever time is best for the student or students. Whether it be the weekday evenings or weekends, and not on the drop zone. I've found working with the students, and not having them stress so much about jumping the same day you teach them ALL the FJC works good, and then a small refresher the day I jump with them has proven to have a better learning curve, doing the entire jump covering all the TLO's, and with less stress. Ed www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

My point exactly! This is what we want to try and avoid! By stopping the accidents BEFORE THEY HAPPEN from the lack of a "structured" Instructional Program. We need to show that wingsuits are safe, if instructed correctly on how to fly that particular suit and before someone just shows up at the DZ with one they picked up off the internet and jumps it not only injuring himself, but possibly involving others. Ed www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

Cedric did tell me they have a Matter suit rating when I was jumping the suit with him a few months back in Perris. As far as the S-fly and P-Fly suits I'm not sure... IMO if you are going to take the time and money to make, sell and distribute a suit on a large scale, it would be good for them to set up a structured rating program to teach by. Ed www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

Regardless of what type of suit it is, just having the proper instruction guidelines by that particular suit maker is wise. For instance, I wouldn't suggest going to someone with a Sigma Vector rating for instruction or advise about a Strong rig now would I? If you are qualified to Instruct on a certain type of suit, then only teach someone how to fly that curtain suit, as they are not all the same flying style as far as body position or emergency procedures. Having a structured teaching environment set in place for wingsuits is something we need to do as the sport is just in it's beginning....AGAIN. Lets not have a start to all the DZ's banning wingsuits in the future because we were stupid for not setting up our own structured guidelines for them. IMO if your going to instruct on how to fly more then 1 style of suit, take the time to get the manufacturers rating for teaching in that suit. Be safe. Ed www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

They didn't have the Coach rating when I received my AFF Instructor rating, and the passing rate for the AFF-I course was only about 20% also I think. I had about 500 or so jumps when I received mine. If you like Instructing, you'll surely enjoy having the AFF rating. Having your belly flying skills down before going to the course and having the abitilty for split second reactions, giving the correct signals and giving them freedom to learn in the air, are what you need to pass the course. Being able to freefly too is a great tool during AFF also, as doing AFF instructing isn't always about staying on your belly. Practice with a seasoned Instructor and learn what to teach on the ground before taking the student up in the air. Correctly teaching the TLO's to a student on the ground, and having them completely understand what you have explained, will lead to better skydives and possibly a more relaxed student. Just please remember, though you like to teach, an AFF rating takes ALOT of time and energy (and sometimes alot of money for the practice jumps!) and you must stay VERY current on your air skills to maintain 100% safety for you and your students. It's NOT just a casual rating to use now and then... Good luck in the path your taking..... Be safe Ed www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

Then I guess thats just one more reason to get a BMI rating isn't it! The BMI rating is designed by Birdman for safety and the correct way of instruction on flying the suit, just the same reason the tandem rig manufacturers have a rating for the rigs they manufacture. People might think that it's just to get money from them, but it's a guideline for safety set by the manufacturer. If anyone is really wanting to see wingsuit flying grow bigger in the sport, we need to set the guidelines for safety and become more involved in what the wingsuit makers are setting for basic guidelines, rather than trying to be "Rebels". (i.e. "I'm not going to pay for that rating when I know I'm good enough, and I can teach anyone even if I dont have the stupid rating") The rules will be set for flying the wingsuits, and if we dont get the rules straight as the wingsuit community grows, people that have never even jumped a wingsuit will set the rules for us guarenteed! Be safe. Ed www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

I think it's a great idea to get a BMI involved in the transaction if the person really wants to buy and learn how to jump a wingsuit. But, it's kinda like a jumper buying a high performance canopy thing. It would be great if we could send the equipment to a responsable person and have them keep it and evaluate when the jumper is ready to jump it. Tell him if he really wants to buy the suit he'll need to get a local "BMI" involved. Be safe. Ed www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

Though a DZ can implement any program they want, I teach my program by the USPA A license progression card such as the one here. I require 2 working tandems that must have good body position, altitude awareness and pull at the assigned altitude, along with satisfactory canopy awareness and control for landing. If the student can demonstrate these TLO's, I teach the ground school and take them up for a Cat C single Instructor jump from then on until they are able to supervise and jumpmaster themselves. - www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

Is there some reason your not a BMI and just have the access demo to the demos Birdman has? Or do you have some type of problem with Birdman's Instructor rating and want to do you own thing? Not a flame, just curious..... - www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

Correct How about this....

IMO, if the skydiver that has been too lazy or uninterested in keeping his rating current, why should they all the sudden be ok to take the student on jump? Staying focused and current to what the student needs is a big part of holding a rating, and someone that is not going to take the time or effort to keep something as simple as a coach rating has no business jumping with a student. - www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

All 3 manuevers do not have to be completed on 1 jump. Try doing just the backloops with regaining good stability, and then have it signed off before moving on to the other manuevers. Don't overload yourself on the jumps, relax and enjoy them, but most of all maintain atlitude awareness and be safe.

I guess if you wanted to take the work away for the current Instructors that are working at the time, that would be a choice.... - www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

Thank Tom. I guess what it's saying is that, if there is not a coach or an AFF rated Instructor on the DZ working the S&TA may "file a waiver" and let an experienced non rated jumper jump with the student. - www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

I do not see this in the SIM. This is what it reads. Is this something NEW added to the SIM or must I be missing something? Or did you just ad this part? - www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com