remibond

I laughed a bit. It's late. I'm tired. The use of water cannons in parts of urban NI has proven very effective at stopping people doing things they're not supposed to be doing and in my opinion would work, especially in larger areas of open space like Clapham Junction which was on fire not too long ago. Like you said people are looting not rioting and I'm sure it's a hell of a lot harder to carry on of those 42" plasma HD ready TVs when you've got a couple tons of water to contend with. As for the CS gas, it could work in conjunction with your curfew idea. Publicise that any mobs about after X time will have some serious difficulty breathing for a while, that way when you deploy it you can say they were warned. All about how you define reasonable force. Or maybe I'm just evil. My aim is non-lethal but temporarily disabling. And if it's a little painful then meh, shit happens. Maybe one of our resident cops could say what they think of all this.

Fair enough. You're funny when you're angry so I'll assume you saying shoot them was just a bit of loose hyperbole. All the same, what do you think should be done? Not just about this but the further reaching problems. You've clearly lived in London and seen the fuckery in N.I. so I'd be interested to hear your ideas. The problem is that there simply isn't the civil resources to deal with this scale of trouble. The politicians are to afraid to be the one who authorise rubber bullets to be used on the mainland for the first time in history anyway. Likewise they wouldn't mobilise the Army (whats left of it) until it was to late. Call up as many Specials as possible, bring in Police from other forces in the UK and cancel leave. We need QRF reinforcements to cover west, east south and north London. Once those that are caught go to court, if found guilty they should face the fullest sentencing possible. Heavy Police presence on the streets increased and look into a way of shutting down the Blackberry messenger service and potentially Twitter and Facebook on a Temp basis across London. Its containment time at the moment, record and arrest, they simply haven't the manpower to do anything else. The main problem to stopping this now is, as you said, manpower. There is only so much the Met can do when it's so outnumbered without the risk for loss of life being too great. It only takes one person to be killed by an over-zealous beatdown or stray rubber bullet for this to get even worse, you remember the public outcry after the G20 protests. It would ignite further protests not to mention probably making the position of Met Commissioner untenable for whoever currently resides in it. That being said, if this continues much longer it's likely some senior heads will roll anyway; I seem to recall Theresa May saying that cutting police budgets won't lead to increased public disorder sometime last year. One designated role of the army is peace keeping but I don't think we're at the stage where they need to be brought in just yet. The difficult balance is finding a solution that puts a swift end to rioting and effectively disuades people from pulling the same shit again without being seen as too heavy handed or using unreasonable force. I vote for the water cannon (and maybe the odd sprinkling of CS gas) . Once everyone is nice and subdued arresting can begin and trials can start. Simples. Lets also not forget that London has more CCTV cameras per person than any other city in the World so even if perpetrators aren't caught now it's possible they will be at a later date. As for the Twitter, Facebook and BB thing, it'll never happen. They're all used far too much by far too many innocent people. Maybe a bit of light monitoring might be in order though.

Fair enough. You're funny when you're angry so I'll assume you saying shoot them was just a bit of loose hyperbole. All the same, what do you think should be done? Not just about this but the further reaching problems. You've clearly lived in London and seen the fuckery in N.I. so I'd be interested to hear your ideas.

Data which provides the ethnicity of the 18,091 men and boys who police took action against in London during 2009-10, looked at both violent and sexual offences. It found that 67 per cent of those caught by police for gun crimes were black. Among those proceeded against for street crimes, including muggings, assault with intent to rob and snatching property, 54 per cent were black males. On sex offences, black men made up 32 per cent of all male suspects, with 49 per cent of those apprehended by police being white men. The statistics also suggest that police hold black women accountable for a disproportionate amount of violent crime. On knife crime, 45 per cent of suspected female perpetrators were black. Among those women and girls police took action against for gun crime, 58 per cent were black and in robberies that figure was 52 per cent. The police statistics relate to those prosecuted - whether convicted or acquitted - issued with a caution, warning or penalty notice. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1290047/Metropolitan-Police-crime-statistics-reveal-violent-criminals-black--victims.html#ixzz1UT28fhFN Now lets do a quick check, seeing as 67% of detected Gun crime 54% of street crimes, including muggings, assault with intent to rob and snatching property 32% of all sex crimes in London are down to black men.. and 45% of knife crime 58% of gun crime committed by females 52% of robberies committed by females in London are down to black women, then what percentage of the population in London is comprised of black people? Answer: Black or Black British: Black Caribbean 4.3% Black or Black British: Black African 5.5% Black or Black British: Other Black 0.8% Total 10.6% Source: ONS mid-2007 Ethnic Group Population Estimates http://tinyurl.com/3hb43ye When 10.6% of the population are responsible for 67% of Gun crime, 54% of street crimes, including muggings, assault with intent to rob and snatching property and 32% of all sex crimes. Them being 6 time more likely to be stopped isn't racism its justifiably to be expected on the hard figures alone. Meh, The Daily Mail. A more interesting statistic would be how many of those stopped were engaged in activities of the nefarious variety and how many of the stops actually led to anything. Or if it was just harassment of innocent people.

Real rioters get the first tube home in the morning.

Yes, I know the chances of getting stopped are far higher. My point was that you were making the situation out to be worse than it actually is. 12 times a week is a blatant exaggeration even with the article you linked. that's only one article about one individual. there are many, many more instances. you don't think 150 stops in 6 years is extreme? Sure, if it were true. Listen mate I'm black, I'm 20 and I can truthfully say that I've only been stopped by the police twice: the first time because the people I was with were smoking and the second because I was waiting for someone who happened to be urinating in a decidedly inappropriate location. Both fairly funny stories but that isn't the point. The point is that, like I've already said, this isn't an issue of colour, it's an issue of greed and crime.

Crime is neither a black nor white thing. The is more reported and recorded crime perpetrated by black people in certain areas of London because there are more black people in certain areas of London. Similarly, there are more crimes committed by white people in Scotland (which incidentally had the second highest murder rate in Europe last time I checked) because there are more white people in Scotland.

Yes, I know the chances of getting stopped are far higher. My point was that you were making the situation out to be worse than it actually is. 12 times a week is a blatant exaggeration even with the article you linked.

how about a dozen times a week? how about the black numbers on the police dna database? Haha sorry, no points for sensationalism, I get enough of that already. Show me a black guy that has been stopped 12 times in a week and I may change my opinion. As for the database, so what? Until they start using it as a bank to withdraw DNA samples to plant at will it's hardly an issue. If you want real racism go to pre-apartheid South Africa. Now they had it bad.

Didn't know that. I thought the Mark chap had done the initial shooting. that's what the police would say... Want to finally enlighten us "yanks" about the severe racial issues in the UK... or do you want to just go on blithering daily about the issues here in the US... this isn't about racial tension. crap... This isn't entirely about racial tension. no, but to say that it has nothing to do with racism is just stupid... Racism and racial tension aren't the same thing. The extent of general racism today as a black guy is getting stopped and searched by the police a bit more than normal. As, however, rioting is also taking place in predominantly white areas (Enfield, for example), it could be be described as a combination of anti-establishmentism and personal greed. It is what it is.

Didn't know that. I thought the Mark chap had done the initial shooting. that's what the police would say... Want to finally enlighten us "yanks" about the severe racial issues in the UK... or do you want to just go on blithering daily about the issues here in the US... this isn't about racial tension. crap... This isn't entirely about racial tension. There's historically been a general lack of trust between black communities and police forces and Duggan was black but that's about as far as the racial issue goes. The area where he was shot, Tottenham, is one of the most diverse parts of the UK with about 3,800 inhabitants of 39 different nationalities. Or so I read. Either way, what started the protest that led to the riot wasn't simply the fact that he was shot (perhaps without firing first but we shall see), it was the fact that his family (4 children, spouse, mother etc.) found out about his death on the news. Not from the police force who had just killed him, but on the news. Regardless of what he may or may not have been involved in, that in itself is inexcusable and it is important that should be remembered despite the resulting chaos. The chaos is also disgraceful. I myself am a young guy but even I can see it is motivated solely by greed. Lack of money does not justify the wholesale looting that has been going on in London (second greatest city in the world btw) over the past few days and look forward to some swift justice against the offenders. Das ist alles Oh and for what it's worth, I live about a mile away from where this all started.

Two questions: 1. Do you like "Snatch"? 2. Are you from London?

A pear tree, been there longer than I've been alive. Oh and scotch bonnet peppers. And grass. Shed. etc.

link

In fairness that's only what, 12,500 extra per year. Hardly a population devastating amount.

If anyone is interested, this is the skeleton argument against the extradition of Assange published by his lawyers this morning.

Works well for those who are fans of ineffective governments like Italy. If you want a government that governs least, as the GOP motto goes, it's fabulous. DUUUUUUUUUUDE..............this...................................is effective???? At least your guy doesn't have "Bunga Bunga" parties with teenage prostitutes. Anyway you occasionally get some minor, inconsequential things done. Besides, if politics was perfect noone here would have anything left to bitch about. We're just along for the ride as it is so we might as well enjoy it.

If I wanted to sound smart and political I could draw comparison to the last UK election where it was presumed that the generally overlooked 3rd party (Liberal Democrats) would be voted into power due to the general perceived incompetence of the other two parties leaders. They weren't. But I have no horse/dog/moose in this race so I'll just sit back and grab some popcorn when the time comes around

Exactly, raw entertainment. Plus it would have the added bonus of ending the Muslim radicalisation of Europe.[/sarc] Palin 2012 WOOOOO!!!

http://www.theonion.com/articles/morbid-curiosity-leading-many-voters-to-support-pa,18865/ ...or maybe not. Still, as a non-American I'm kind of hoping she wins, even if only for the entertainment factor.

I’m not buying it. These stories just don’t ring true with me. “Next morning she was with her mother and several school mates in front of the clinic with the usual anti posters and chants.” I call bullshit. I’m not saying that a pro-lifer hasn’t gotten an abortion, I’m just saying something smells fishy about this. The stories are anecdotes from various doctors from different places. Do you think they are all fake? No I don’t think they are all fake. Yes I believe there are hypocrites on the issue. Some of those anecdotes are a little hard for me to swallow. Would it be tactless of me to make a swallow joke?

Sweden suicide bomber: Taimur Abdulwahab al-Abdaly was living in Britain

The UK is officially a hardcore fundamentalist Islamic state now, didn't you get the memo?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11978807 Thoughts?