remibond

What Freeman gives a damn about the IRS? Are we a country of Freemen or are my country men slaves to a government? Will we fight as lions or lay down and die as sheep? Well that's...dramatic.

This covers me. I've been shooting since I was about 12 or 13 since my school had a fairly large C.C.F. unit (even though I was in the RAF section for the free flying lessons) and got tons of experience on the SA80 as well as the .22 Lee Enfield No.8. They taught us about maintenance and cleaning as well as respect and accuracy. I think at one point I was going through about 30-40 rounds a week on the No.8 Happy days. eta: For what it's worth I'm about as city as they come, lived in London all my life.

Not detracting from this incident (whatever actually happened) but you'd be naive to think it doesn't happen both ways. You are correct So why report it differently? I'm not entirely sure what you mean. All reports that I've seen of this make it clear that it was a "race riot" and draw attention to the fact they were black.

besides teh 1st shot which started all, 1 was shot dead, and 3 were crushed by a car The first shot started a peaceful protest which the criminally inclined hijacked. The second shot may or may not have had anything to do with the riots but I've seen no evidence either way; people get shot in that area all the time. The three crushed by the car happened a few hours ago so I haven't had a chance to look into it yet. On top of all of that, investigators have determined that there's absolutely no evidence that Duggan fired at officers first But hey, wasn't this supposed to be a gun thread?

Not detracting from this incident (whatever actually happened) but you'd be naive to think it doesn't happen both ways.

You mean to say that you don't have alien abduction insurance??? Okay all jokes aside, I was speaking from the perspective that if there's someone willing to buy something there will always be someone somewhere willing to take their money. While this is probably true for most things, I will listen to the various voices here telling me I'm wrong on this point. Forgive my youthful hubris. edited because it would appear I can't spell

Doesn't mean we can't eat them!

Doesn't mean we can't eat them!

How has this got anything to do with socialism?

Still no word on what caused it though, "deteriorating culture" isn't a reason for whatever happened. An excuse, maybe.

well, goodie. Why don't you go find it first before proclaiming that it must exist. Good luck. The small business owner doesn't have that sort of free cash to spend on expensive insurance that doesn't even exist. Despite what dreamdancer would tell you, he or she is just trying to eek out a living. In the US, I suppose you could write off the loss on your personal or business tax return. But that doesn't restore your livelihood. Well because there's a market for it. An insurance company offering cover for damages and loses caused by rioting or large scale theft could make a killing by preying off the fears of small business owners, especially after what we've seen recently in England. [insurance salesman]I understand that times are tough, but can you really put a price on peace of mind?[/insurance salesman] Not quite sure what dreamdancer has to do with this. Maybe not, but would I be right in assuming the funds you'd gain from doing that would be enough to rebuild whatever business you owned?

Do the rioters have rabies? Lol I have no idea. I'll take a walk when I've finished revising and report back. Probably find a zombie or two.

I've never had to insure a business but I assume there must be some way of claiming compensation from somewhere for events outside of your control. A lot of home insurance does cover theft so it stands to reason that the same could be arranged for business owners. Thanks, I actually read the link just before you posted it to brush up on my history so I wouldn't say something moronic. I think it worked . Anyway, regardless of the circumstances of the majority of deaths, I think we can both agree that the toll would have been lower if firearms were taken out of the equation. There would probably have been more looting, that much is true, but whatever was stolen or damaged could have been replaced. A human life can not. A non-lethal solution is always preferable.

Would I kill someone stealing my car? No, not even if the law allowed it. Would I kill someone ransacking a business that I spent my life building, that provides mine and my families livelihood? Absolutely, especially knowing the police would simply take pictures after the fact. Sorry, still disagree. All you're doing is claiming that murder for some possessions is more justified than murder for other possessions. If you're a business owner with a family to support and have any reason to be worried about the security of your business it should be insured to the hilt before it even opens. That way when the unfortunate happens you don't starve to death.

Haha

Type faster It honestly depends on what you consider to be a bloodbath. I consider the death of 53 civilians over 5 days when we're not in a warzone to be too many. That being said, something does have to be done. As some have said in another thread, baton rounds and tactical use of CS gas after a curfew has been called into effect may be the way to go. It would be the first time they've ever been used on the mainland but desperate times and all that. In the spirit of staying more or less on topic with the thread, I'm definitely not against the idea of an armed populace in most situations. What I would hope for, however, is strict regulation of who has access to guns.

I was only 1 y.o when they happened but I've read about them, FWIW. It wasn't clear to me though, were the majority of the looters armed too or armed as well as the people defending their property? It should also be pointed out that 53 people died during the course of those over 6 days, while no one has died as a direct result of the England ones over the 3 days they've been going on.

It would be very unlikely to result in a blood bath. The average legally armed citizen here in the US is not all that trigger happy. I am sure it wouldn't be that much different in the UK. We'd be talking about armed roaming gangs of rioters and looters versus armed police (since I'm assuming guns for the police would be mandatory if they were legal and easily accesible for the general populace) and angry/scared business or home owners. People would be shot and people would be killed. Then again, maybe the fear of a swift death would be deterrent enough.

Defending your business from wanton thugs? Absolutely, IMO. I, personally, disagree. I think that once you are prepared to kill just for the sake of possessions you're on a slippery slope. It is a tricky one though.

The question is even if people were legally armed, would wholesale murder be the right way to go in response to what's going on? On top of that, you could bet that a fair few of the rioters would have guns too. It would be a bloodbath. Probably.

Re: holster. Not necessarily. It IS possible to have an accidental discharge with a gun in a holster. It could be a mistake to think that a holster automatically makes you safe. Well maybe, but you're less likely to shoot your balls off if it is holstered.

Hi to you too, A baton round is a general term that encompasses rubber and plastic bullets as well as bean bag rounds, though rubber has generally been phased out in favour of the plastic equivalent as it is less deadly. The aim of them is to temporarily render a violent person unable to continue said violence which will allow security forces to either detain them or regroup. Interesting article from the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14459127 ETA: I also heard about the death in Croydon. I personally doubt it is linked to the riots though the shooter may have taken advantage of the general chaos to settle a score or something. Or maybe I watch too many bad movies.

I just watched the chief of police say on Sky how ill informed the media are. Plastic bullets went out of fashion decades ago according to him. He also lashed out at the media for demanding water canons, saying that they only work in certain circumstances (dense crowds etc). 16 000 police out and about tonight. Well some kind of baton round then. A quote from the most reliable source on the planet, Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_bullet 16,000 police in the capital and all police cells already full. Not to mention the trouble that's started off in Birmingham, Liverpool and some other places I can't remember. It's interesting to say the least. I'm just wondering who the first person to be fired will be.

That's interesting because I've just heard on the radio that the use of plastic bullets has been authorised if riots continue tonight. I'll try and find a link.

Sounds like it's time for a dose of that. Like I said, it depends entirely on how you define reasonable force. Or rather, what degree of force is deemed to be reasonable.