nigel99

I think the whole SC environment is getting a bit to centred on religion at the moment. The gun and politics threads have currently taken a back seat. So should politicians be allowed to own/carry fire-arms? Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Uhhhhh, Nigel...I know Max. You may want to re-think that. Ok I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, since I know you Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Agnosticism is just a luke warm philosophy for those who have arrested their spiritual development. You know how funny that statement is coming from someone who follows blind belief without questioning? Anyway it is nice to see a couple of threads not following the normal religion lines (yet) Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

WTF do you know about what I hope? The fact that you sit on the fence. I don't see it as sitting on the fence. I certainly have no "hope" that god exists. But I am not 100% certain that there is not a "spiritual" element to life that we don't fully understand. I don't attribute that to a god, it could just as easily be a force. Maybe it means different things to different people? Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

This made me think of Popsjumper Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

You realise unicorns exist? They are just fat and grey and we call them Rhinos Following on from what other people have said - I would also class myself more as an agnostic. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

I was brought up in a devoutly christian family and told it was wrong to question etc. As a teenager I was told bluntly by someone in the church that I had just enough christianity to make me un-happy. I was told that I needed to "lose" myself in Christ to be truly happy. Ironically it was a happy clapper church (my father was a pastor/elder) and I was forced to be involved - normally running the sound desk. Quite frequently my best mate and I would get high on pot prior to the evening service and it was ALWAYS on those days that I got told that I was "really in the spirit" I struggled with the whole concept until my late twenties, until I gradually realised that I simply did not believe it and felt the evidence was that it was a fairy tale. My parents don't know, and frankly the relationship with them is more important than talking about my beliefs. My wife is devastated by my lack of belief, I know that it hurts her. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Ya, because when all the religious people are all gone, God knows that all the Stalins, and all the Jim Joneses, and all the Mussolinies, and all Ze Dongs and all the Alfred Kinseys and all the Tamil Tigers of the world will just live happily ever after.... Give it a rest Babin. Eh? Sex is very very bad Did nobody tell you? Sex is the cause of all of humanities problems, I can pretty much guarantee that without it, within a generation all our problems would disappear Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

What do you mean? Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

I wish it did. But religion has shaped many of the laws here in the US. Belief in Santa Clause gets us a few days off every year and gets people to buy each other gifts for no other reason but tradition. But not all religious people believe that it is healthy for politics and religion to be mixed the way it is in the USA. Fundamentalism is different to religion and it hurts us all. I see a difference between questioning people on their beliefs, and trying to change their beliefs. In all honesty people who try and change others beliefs come across as condescending and arrogant. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Not sure if you have ever read "The road less travelled" by Scott Peck? In his book he talks about how some of his patients receive healing from their mental illness by getting religion. He also talks about how some get healing by losing religion. Some people (perhaps many people) are better off when they have religion to guide their lives. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Well the madness started when we decided that we would support terrorists in Libya. Unfortunately poking our noses into other peoples business tends to back-fire. I am not surprised that this is happening. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Really? I know a lot of people who I would consider to be truly faithful, many in my own family. And most of them seem to be very good people. I don't know how most of them feel about my beliefs, because it's rarely come up. Though I have talked about my beliefs with several of my religious friends, and we've always managed to be respectful of each other's beliefs. I think you and I are using two different definitions of "rationalize." I was talking about looking at things from a rational point of view; I thought that was what the OP meant, but maybe he meant the "making excuses" definition? I think you and Rehmwa are both correct (as he outlines in his response to your post). I did not mean rationalise as in making excuses, but rather looking at things in a rational manner. I believe it is possible to examine your religious beliefs in a rational manner, and some people do. Just because they come from a different starting point to 'us', doesn't necessarily mean they are wrong. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

I don't believe any such thing. You are broadly overgeneralizing a view held by fundamentalists. There are a great many thinking Christians, many of whom, myself included, not only respect the beliefs of others, but have doubts and questions about our own beliefs. True about the generalisation. 90% of my family are religious fundamentalists and believe exactly as I stated it (including my wife btw). Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

I don't know what the purpose of the 'supervising rigger' is in the UK, but in the US it does not include personally checking every step of every pack job. The truth is, I don't know what the exact purpose of the supervising rigger is in the US, just that they need to be 'there'. Hi Dave, I don't want to hijack the thread with my smart arse remarks. I actually jump in the US and am not familiar with UK/BPA regs. In a recent thread about packing it was made clear by a rigger that the purpose of "direct supervision" is to ensure that the main is packed properly by checking all the important steps. It seems to me that this being the case - IF the FAA regs had been followed the error would have been caught. First - don't get me wrong we are all responsible as licensed jumpers for our own safety. But I don't like this attitude that you "pay for the pack job, not the opening". If you are going to charge money for a service be professional. If you are negligent or incompetent you SHOULD be held to account. I realise that the USA's legal system tends to screw the innocent, hence the waivers etc and that needs to be born in mind when making generalisations. Anyway I'm off my soap-box. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Fully agree. With 5 rigs of my own often being used by wingsuit students, there have been a few chops over the years. The borrower/user know they'll be paying for any lost gear and repack. And have, in every instance. Yesterday, a visiting packer misrouted a bridle that resulted in a container lock. The jumper paid for his reserve re-pack, as (I believe) he should. Folks now know to avoid that packer in the future. Mainly stirring trouble but it seems like the supervising rigger should pick up the tab for the repack. That is on the assumption that there was one. Isn't this a classic example of why the regs require supervision of packers? Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-15428711 Followed by the following quote Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Ok then call it reconcile your belief. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

I believe in God, I don't assume to understand he who created me. I also believe that there is only one God, therefore to talk about a Christian God or a Jewish God would be blasphemy. As I believe that there is only one God, Christians and Jews and anyone who has a monotheistic faith by my rational is simply worshiping one God in many different ways. To me its not so important how you worship simply that you do. I suppose that if I were to classify myself by Christian denomination I'd be closest to a Methodist as I believe that how you live your life and faith is most important. Thanks for the reply. I just wish I had a sharper wit and could come up with something zinging. The humour in the fact that you are a muslim and answered reasonably as opposed to the vast majority of 'other' replies. Well it's just funny. That's simply a bunch of bullshit...you could blast him down any which way you like...and you would, but you're starting to realize that we don't give a bloody hell what you think about it, so it doesn't fcking matter... You think I asked so I could try and pick holes in his and your beliefs? Sorry you are so uptight, but frankly it is something that interests me. Jamile answered with what he believed, so far you've trolled and littered your posts with fuck this/fuck that - sorry but the only person that reflects on is you I think it is pretty clear that I don't believe in God, no-ones views are going to change that. Similarly I have no intention of ever trying to convince someone else that they are wrong either. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

I believe in God, I don't assume to understand he who created me. I also believe that there is only one God, therefore to talk about a Christian God or a Jewish God would be blasphemy. As I believe that there is only one God, Christians and Jews and anyone who has a monotheistic faith by my rational is simply worshiping one God in many different ways. To me its not so important how you worship simply that you do. I suppose that if I were to classify myself by Christian denomination I'd be closest to a Methodist as I believe that how you live your life and faith is most important. Thanks for the reply. I just wish I had a sharper wit and could come up with something zinging. The humour in the fact that you are a muslim and answered reasonably as opposed to the vast majority of 'other' replies. Well it's just funny. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

So Instead of trolling why don't you answer my original post? How do you justify/rationalise your belief that Jesus is the son of God and that everyone else is wrong? Why is Jesus real and Mohammed not? Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

You know what the most infuriating thing about trying to hold a conversation with you is? It's that you won't just come out and say whatever point you think you're trying to make. Why? If you have something to say . . . say it. Why waste my time with this nonsensical back and forth game of you attempting to hide behind some sort of "riddle?" FFS . . . SAY whatever the F it is you're going to say! I can't believe I've wasted 20 f'in minutes on this already. Get on with it. I'm tired and and going to go to sleep soon. I'm lost Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

It was part of an early Holiday Inn advert Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Can I propose a similar question by re-writing YOUR question? Personal belief in any religion doesn't need to be "rationalized". Only non-believers would even have to ask the question. It is a valid question Andy. For me personally, I suppose I could summarise it by saying that I see no evidence of any religion being correct. In the absence of any being right it seems most logical that all are wrong. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

I am curious how people (not only Christians) rationalise their beliefs? How can you assume that your version/understanding of God is correct and everyone else is wrong? Specifically how can you look yourself in the mirror and honestly believe in your God, while firmly believing that other religions God's are simply figments of their imagination? Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.