TomAiello

I've started sending out the invitations for this course. As people confirm (or not) I'll work down the list. At this point I have 1 confirmed student, 3 invitations I'm waiting on confirmation for, and 1 invited auditor. As soon as I receive confirmations or folks let me know they can't make it, I'll send out additional invitations. Once I've filled the whole course with confirmed attendees, I'll send out a final email to everyone who applied, letting them know. Thanks for bearing with me. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Well, I haven't landed mine yet. Have you? Landing the suit is easy. Doing so without an inflated parachute may be a bit more difficult, but can also be achieved if: (a) there is no human in the suit at the time, or (b) exit is ultra low--like 2 feet. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Have you filmed your PC during the move to bridle stretch? I know that _most_ of the people I've seen do a 'flinging' motion have a tendency to impart rotation to the PC. In many cases, I've actually seen the PC (still bundled) perform complete rotations (360 degrees) while moving to bridle extension. I noticed that I was doing this a couple years ago, and spent a morning "re-training" myself on the ground, to pitch without rotating the PC. I found that in my case a wrist flick (much like the motion used when throwing a ball) was the culprit. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I agree. I've been involved in several on-line communities. Without a doubt the most important thing in determining their success has been the single personality at the top, setting the tone. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

If I didn't think he'd kick my butt, I'd call him. Girlfalldown, do you have his phone number? He'd probably not kick your butt, seeing as your a girl, and an invalid, and all. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

It's ok. He programmed a script to stop the bonfire with 1 post to go before 1 million. That way he can make the millionth post. Which "he"? THE "HE"? Yep. And I think it's 3am in SA right now, so it could be a long wait... -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

It's ok. He programmed a script to stop the bonfire with 1 post to go before 1 million. That way he can make the millionth post. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Do you have any information on the "guy" in this example? The tracking skills of the jumper are still going to be the most important factor, so if guy #1 was a much better tracker than guy #2, the example isn't terribly relevant to gear selection. I'm pretty sure, for example, that if you put me in a full pressurized suit, AD could still out-track me in street clothes. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Also to me. Which is why I was wondering about it leaving his hand prematurely, or other possibilities. Unfortunately, we don't have video, so the best we can do is speculate based on what we do know. Apex/Vertigo 42". It was pretty much brand new. Not that I could find. Yes. I couldn't locate any. Pretty much the only noteworthy thing about the PC was that the ZP it was made from appeared to be much heavier than the ZP I've commonly seen. One jumper commented that it looked like "paraglider ZP". It was very thick--almost waxy. We were able to make it hold it's shape pretty easily when table testing (I expect that wear will reduce this effect, but this one was pretty much brand new). -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Which one? In the first one (weird jump) the jumpers are DexterBASE, KMonster, and myself. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Yes, but there were at least three people (Clem, Denise and Ted) watching who each had hundreds of BASE jumps. All three of them reported that his pitch was strong. Personally, I wondered this, too. I also wonder if his strong pitch was just the hand motion, and he somehow "dropped" the PC early in the pitch (or had it pulled from his hand by the restricted bridle) without noticing. This is all my best understanding. I'm not a physicist, so take with appropriate salting, but as I understand it: At terminal a falling body has a burble that is twice as long as the width of the body (so, a human falling belly to earth will have a terminal burble roughly twice as long as the distance from shoulder to shoulder). This burble begins at zero (no airspeed=no burble) and increases at a geometric progression until it reaches it's terminal size. That means that most of it's size is attained in the last few seconds before reaching terminal. Jaap's burble at the time of his pitch (say, 2 seconds down) would have been so small that getting a 42" PC stuck in it ought to be practically impossible unless the PC was somehow "stuck" in the spandex pouch, or "stuck" in it's own folded shape. I think the "PC stuck in burble" thing is vastly overrated on subterminal BASE jumps. The burble just isn't that big yet. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Hell, I'm just honored to have gotten to meet both of yall. All right, break it up. What's with the lovefest? That kind of thing belongs in the Bonfire. Speaker's Corner is for arguments. Now start fighting! -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Intolerance for anyone who doesn't believe as he does? It's spillover from another forum. The original subject was not a drunk driver. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

So do you have the bridle inside the package when you fold it? We saw a noticeable hesitation here (non-wingsuit) over the weekend that was likely caused by folding the PC that way with the bridle already S folded inside it. See Dead Jaap's Thread for more details. I'm hoping he'll get some pictures up and start a discussion about the PC pack when he gets home. I'm curious if we've come to opposite conclusions about the same PC pack job, but it's hard to tell without more photos (or even video) of the PC packing. Can you elaborate on your method? Thanks! -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

He S folded the bridle into the bottom half of the fully extended mesh, _before_ folding the mesh in half into the PC bundle. This effectively trapped the bridle inside the PC bundle. My digital camera is, by random coincidence, also in the SLC airport right now, so I can't post pictures of the "Dead Jaap Pack" but I'll try to do so once I have a camera, assuming Jaap doesn't get to it first. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Um, shouldn't Screw BASE numbers be issued in pairs? How'd you end up with an odd number? -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Yes, the canopy (Rock Dragon 266) was slider down. I'm answering for Jaap, because he's probably just getting off the plane in SLC, and I know he won't get home until sometime very late tonight. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

On to the specifics of the accident: Nope. I said pretty much the same thing I say to everyone, which is "you know, you don't have to do this jump." Yep. That's why I decided to stay. In my opinion, the most experienced jumper on the load is the default "stay and get busted" guy. Regardless, if there had been a more experienced jumper on the load who had chosen to bail, I would have stayed anyway. I just don't think that leaving injured people by themselves is good human conduct. Yes. See my above explanation that I believe the most experienced jumper on a load ought to be willing to stay with the injured and take the bust. That's what I did. In the exact center of the span, midway between two pillars. He had one leg amputated below the knee during the following week, by surgeons at a major medical center. But I'm sure you knew that, since it was widely disseminated on several midwest skydiving listservs. As far as I can tell, not much, actually. That surprises me. There was another incident earlier in the day at the same site, in which jumpers were chased off by police, and also a self-rescue of an injured jumper. I spoke to the Sheriff after the accident, when I was in custody, and truthfully found his attitude to be very understanding and accepting. I believe his exact words were "heck, if I wanted to do that, I'd be out there too." I'm not sure what kind of response you are looking for. A number from 1 to 100? I felt responsible enough to stay and face arrest, to sort out gear, to call the hospital to check on him, to call his friends at home in an effort to get things organized post-accident, and to call and check in on him a couple times in the following weeks. In all honesty, Johnny, it seems like you're trying to use this accident to launch yet another attack against me. But I feel that I acted well, and did the right thing here. I will gladly stand by my post-accident responses in this situation (and every other that I have been involved in). -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Are you saying that you don't feel responsible, in any way, for people who you teach to BASE jump? I guess I just don't operate that way. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

It sounds like you're looking for specifics on this particular incident, so I've split it off into it's own thread. There are multiple posters on this forum who were present at the time. Perhaps they will contribute their views, as well. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I don't believe that Carl meant for the numbers to be "USA only" when he started them. There were plenty of early BASE number holders outside the US, and they've always been a pretty international bunch. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I met him about 20 minutes before the jump, when our two groups bumped into each other in the landing area while walking up. I was unaware of his level of experience (I believe he had 8 prior BASE jumps, 2 off that span) until we reached the exit. I agreed to do the PCA because their group (3 jumpers) had limited experience, and were going to jump regardless. In that situation, I think that helping reduce the risks is better than refusing to help. Was I mentoring him? No, I don't think so. Mentoring, for most of us, involves more than just holding a pilot chute. But yes, I did feel pretty bad for him. Witness, for example, the fact that I stayed with him for two hours, guided the rescue crew in, and was willing to get arrested rather than leave an injured jumper. I'm sure that everyone else on the load felt bad, too. Perhaps Peter or Jamie can tell you how they felt, as well. If you'd like to start a discussion of that accident, there's a "post new" button in the upper right corner of the forum page. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

At this point, I find the people I am jumping with at least as important as the jumps themselves. I believe the BASE numbers are a way to stay connected to the history and community of the sport. When I had a couple hundred jumps, I couldn't be bothered to care about that. Now? I think all those other folks out there doing this thing have turned out to be one of the things that gives it meaning. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

This is an interesting statement, and I'm curious how many people feel this way. Certainly I feel that a BASE mentor ought to be a very experienced jumper. Where I differ from the above is that, since I've never met somebody in BASE who wasn't an adult, my feeling is that what you do is, at the end of the day, your choice. Regardless of what we think, when one of your students is injured, you are likely to feel some personal doubt or guilt. To expect an instructor or mentor to never question themselves, to never ask "couldn't I have done better to prepare the student?" is probably not realistic. Humans cannot just shut off their emotional responses. When you guide someone, no matter how hard you try to make things as safe as possible for them, you still feel some responsibility when they are injured. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

This is K763's response, that I am importing manually from the other thread: -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com