Zenister

i'll agree there on somethings.. however rock (and more recently metal) drummers have been pushing the envelop on heavy pummeling double bass and its accompanied rhythms in directions the jazz greats never imagined.... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

cant do it, both are hugely influential, but there are people out playing both of them now... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

6k isnt very much. why does the school think the teachers are the problem? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

No I got it you are just off. I didn;t bring feelings into it. You said that a baby that can't function on its own is not "human". And by those "logical" objectives anyone that needs a resparator to breathe is also not "Human" due to a dependance on a machine. Your definition, not mine. you still missed it, i clearly stated there is difference between a human that is placed on life support and a fetus that has yet to become human in the first place. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

no I already did.. you must have missed it, it is a seperate issue. logic and feelings are on opposing sides of the spectrum. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

very nice and congratulations... nice way to bring 'feeling' into the discussion, which helps my point more than yours... for discussion no personal feelings involved many weeks ago she was still a potential human, if her mother had fallen down the stairs, danced to vigorously one night, or landed badly while skydiving, resulting in a stillbirth, should she be charged with involuntary manslaughter? ...its all rather simple once you take your feelings out of the equation. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

You said: So should we unplug Christofer Reeves? go back and read the thread...i'm not bothering with this strawman again... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

Just because you gave a standard doesn't make it right. It makes it your opinion and I'll respect that. It doesn't make it any better than mine and certainly doesn't make it any more scientifically based. it is absolutely based on the scientific methods and how it creates definitions, [I]perhaps a bit of study is in order? you might be surprised[/I] a standard that is based on verifiable evidence and repeatable facts is better than those that are created based on “I feel' or I believe this is right”... it is also one of the reasons we argue so much over 'evidence' and 'proof'. I use clear scientifically definable standards.... where as many see the bible is ' evidence' and 'proof'?? and yes you are correct when you say modern medicine (science) is expanding the envelope as to what is 'human', before Caesarean sections many potential humans were simply dead, and old age was 50…. So if you are not creating your definition of 'human life' using feelings and religion, what do you base it on? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

whatever... i can see few are interested in continuing intelligent discussion anymore... I defined a clear, logical, measurable and scientifically demonstratable standard. Show me where the religious camp has offered anything other than feelings and belief? Logic has nothing to do with what you feel or believe... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

idly wonders how many low speed drops the military has done with those parachutes and static line systems.... I dont have terribly many military static line jumps, and i've seen quite a few completely jacked exits that worked out anyway... and it doenst take very long to teach a PLF in the event the somehow miss the water.. is it at all possible this guy does have a very reliable way (assuming his gear is regularly PMCS'd) of doing things? What if he does? seems like many people are pissed because 'that is not the way we do it!!' until someone actually has some facts about his equipment, training given, and method used it would seem the T&F party is a bit early.... i'm not about to sign up for his 'FJC' but then your not likely to get me under a round again ever..... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

neener neener neener!! coach jumps absolutely rock....however it is good to go play on your own for one or two of those dives...i'd imagine your coach will suggest that at some point, or will at least put together a 'fun dive' or two to help consolidate all the 'skill based' dives your doing... you do get what you pay for, and with the talent and professionalism at Eloy you really cant go wrong... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

Extra special today.....when the silly blonde gets home, she spanks the fiery redhead for misbehaving. ok time to leave the thread..... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

you should brush up on your logic before you make such assertions and stop being intentionally obtuse.. a 6 month old child is self sustaining, it has all the necessary independent biological functions to survive in the environment adult members of its species occupy. a fetus does not, there is a fundamental difference. i'm not talking about 'care' at all. Basic biological functions are not ‘care’; does its respiratory system supply O2 from our atmosphere? Does its digestive system function independently? Does its heart pump it's own blood? Or does it rely on another ‘host’ for those functions common to all members of its species? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

cant do it. I'm much more concerned about real effects than political statements. I dont like either of our choices, taking a 'third' route (any third route although i have voted Libertarian in the past) will do nothing but allow others to decide who is in charge for the next years.. when it becomes apparent that the choice i would most prefer has no chance of winning, i'll vote against the choice i would least prefer rather than do nothing to prevent it from occurring... i dont feel quilty, i know our 2 party system sucks, it isnt going to change anytime soon either... currently 'one person on vote' is only a meaningful phrase inside the 2 party system.. voting for any alternate candidate lowers your vote to less than 1 when it comes to determining who will actually hold the office for the next 4 years.... and that reality is more important to me than voting for the way i 'wish things were' ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

not for anything approaching the same reasons..... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

please explain your 'rational' and the scientific standard by which you reached it. Also please show the scientific definition of 'human' that fits with your rationalization. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

your all absolutely wrong... feta goes best on pizza, with alfredo, ham and artichokes... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

first. pointing out the use of fallacy (the 'strawman' a very commonly used fallacy on this board) is not a insult. Whenever anyone uses blatantly invalid arguments or fallacies it is important to point them out to avoid clouding the discussion. [I](what you said I posted vs what was actually posted)[/I] A woman is in her 24th week of pregnancy and she experiences an abruption (placenta separates from the uterus). The fetus has the potential lung development at that point to have a good chance at surviving on its own after delivery. Of course, in this instance, a natural delivery is not going to happen and the baby is going to die unless heroic medical attention is given (cesarean section). This all has to happen in a matter of minutes or the mother will bleed to death internally and the baby will suffer brain damage. However, even in this case, the 24 week old baby will be sent to the Neonatal Intensive Care Unit and will remain there a long time. It will be given extended care until it has time to develop and grow enough. Is that fetus, before it is taken out, or the baby, in the NICU, considered human by your criteria? Would it be acceptable for the doctor to abort this baby as it is taken out at the mother’s request? the fact that the fetus must be put on life support to survive, that it still requires the environment of the womb to grow, means it is still a potential human ie. a fetus, not a human baby. It is really rather easy not matter how much you attempt to cloud the waters. So again. When it is capable of surviving in the environment its species occupies (using its own organic processes) it is a functional member of its species, before then it is only a potential member. This standard can be demonstrated again and again, using recognized scientific methods vs the 'i feel, i believe' stance adopted by those who use religion to make such determinations. There really isn’t much reason for this debate once we take feelings, belief, and religion out of the equation. if you put the 24 week fetus on the table while you tended to the mother, would it be alive when you came back? (you say 'on its own' but 'on it's on' does not include technological developments designed to replicate the womb environment.) If the answer is ‘yes’ then it is human, if the answer is 'no' then it is still a fetus, and will never become human without a host environment (natural or artificial) if the mother does not wish such heroic measure (ICU) be taken, the doctor isnt 'aborting' anything. Ps. Caesarian can hardly be considered a 'heroic' medical procedure by modern medicine.. By it self it does not create an artificial environment to continue to support life that cannot survive in the human environment. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

hmm looks like flirting to me.... "Do. or Do not. there is no try." -yoda one of the things i love about freefall...some choices are 'black and white' ... stay in the plane or get out? its only one step, but you cant take it back..... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

No, but I've done the opposite, tossed a rip cord. i tossed 2 then had another 'step' added "place cord in jumpsuit".... so the first part of my training when switching to BOC went "DONT stick this one in your jumpsuit"... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

so you can power your boogie with your cars? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

yea they are sort of cannon fodder without hooks ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

and i was wondering if i owed beer for having bought something at all the 'squares' lol oh well i bought a case or two at Xkeys when i was there anyway ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

i'll have to dig around... havent even thought about Quake until this server came up.... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

i'm mad, your mad, hes mad... we're all mad here... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.