cloudseeker2001

And that translates to a universal right to health care, how? Obviously modern health care is a product of our society, and all in our society should share what it has to offer. Lot's of things are products of our society. That doesn't give us a right to them. You could use that logic to say that liberty gives you the right to personally address Congress every day. After all, Congress is a product of our society, right? Health care is not a liberty, it's a commodity that we need to keep us alive and healthy. There may or may not be a "right" to health care, but you're twisting the language so ridiculously that even someone who might agree with you can see it's not worth the effort. HAHAHAHAHA!!!! I am twisting language? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! That is funny!!!!! So you feel as though you have no obligation or responsibility to help your fellow human in need of medical attention. You will pass sick and dying people on the street, injured people from car accidents, skydiving accidents, mentally deficient people who need help, people who simply have no insurance, people who had good insurance but because they were sick, they lost their jobs and lost their coverage, old people who need Hospice or home nurse care, young and old people who need long term care……..whatever and however many different ways a person falls into a pit of medical need and you, as a fellow human being and citizen of the most powerful country that has ever been on the face of this planet, have nothing to say other than, too bad you cannot afford the latest price of the “commodity”????????????????? This may very well be your mode of thought, but not mine. And the language I use is not twisted, not by a long shot. The meaning is right there where you showed me, my man on the street.

Clarification: You're claiming that healthcare is a "God given and constitutionally guaranteed right" but investigating allegations of child abuse, acting on probable cause to remove children from abusive or neglectful situations is wrong? By analogy, are you really saying that a parent has the right to break a child's arm & the state is required to pay for medical care to set the bone? That's what it sounds like you're asserting? I don't get it. Please explain it to me so that I can understand you logic and rationale. Huh? What room? /Marg I have answered your question and provided my opinion concerning the probable cause time and time again, and you still keep asking as if you are expecting a different answer. Re-read my post concerning the lame probable cause the cops used to invade the compound. Try not to over-think it.

And that translates to a universal right to health care, how? Obviously modern health care is a product of our society, and all in our society should share what it has to offer. Do you not think that we have an obligation to provide the most basic liberties to those who cannot afford these benefits? Or do you think we should be so inhuman as to let people by the masses die in the streets while you step over them to get you morning Starbucks? If you do not thing the US Constitution protects or even influences health care, do some research.

Right on!

There are no less than four definitions for liberty in the Merriam Webster Collegiate Dictionary and I think you will find one that fits my usage of the word.

There are no less than four definitions for liberty in the Merriam Webster Collegiate Dictionary and I think you will find one that fits my usage of the word.

Just want to make sure that I'm understanding correctly, neither agreeing nor disagreeing at this point: You are claiming that socialized medicine is a "God given and constitutionally guaranteed right" ? Therefore you're in favor of USG subsidized universal healthcare for all Americans? VR/Marg The United States Constitution guarantees that all people in this country get the very basic liberties this country has to offer and public health is one of them. We already have a socialized medical program that is not very affective, and should be overhauled to include more treatments and greater access. We have a duty, as humans, to provide healthcare to everyone. It is barbaric to do otherwise. Our current medical care system is based on greed.

Well, first of all, I wouldn't have taken 416 kids based on 1 anonymous phone call. If I were a cop I would subpoena phone records and find the owner of that phone. Then I'd put that person in front of a judge and find out who this 16 year old girl was. Then, if she does in fact exist, I would arrest the man she implicates for rape, and start building a case based on my interrogation of him and testimony of the girl. Duke, this makes far too much sense! Most all the people think on emotion, and that is what the governement, and to much extent, the media wants of the public, so that they can do whatever they would like.

That is too bad, he could have sued her in civil court for defamation of character if all of that happened. "Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance, others mean and rueful of the western dream"

This is direct causation and genetic forensic evidence of intermarriage of first cousins, which is illegal in Arizona. “An MRI of the brain of one fumarase deficiency child showed that more than half the brain was missing. “Tarby says most of the children ‘can say at least a word or two,’ but that all of them ‘have severe mental retardation’ with IQs of less than 25.” Legally, can an individual with an IQ of

Umm... He's dead. I don't think he minds if he's got a bit of dust on him. "Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance, others mean and rueful of the western dream"

CPS doesn't just take an anonymous phone call about child abuse and then go to that person's house and take their children. They will investigate the situation and take the children if they feel there is actual evidence of abuse. I spent a couple of years working for a place that dealt with abused children (in TX), and I never saw a case where children were taken away from their homes without a pretty good reason. And even if the children are taken away, the alleged abuser is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. But in a child abuse case, CPS can't just leave the children in their homes until after the court date, because they will generally be at risk in that situation. I know two CPS workers and I am amazed by some of the things they cook up together on people. "Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance, others mean and rueful of the western dream"

Yes, I am sure. I'm just telling you that I don't think the same thing that you think regarding the government lying about the phone call. But since I have no way of knowing whether I am right or wrong, I certainly can't prove anything to you. No reason to be modest, you are a skydiver after all, you know you are right!!!!!!

I'm not trying to prove you wrong, as I do not know whether they are lying or not. But I have no reason to believe that they are lying about it. Are you sure you are not trying to prove me wrong? "Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance, others mean and rueful of the western dream"

When it comes to probable (do you disagree abuse in this case is probable?) abuse--particularly sexually--of children, I really don't give a shit how they got around the law to do what they can to stop it. What if someone called the CPS and told them you and your friends where abusing children and the police arrested you, wreaked your home, locked your accounts, put your name in the public and made a fool of you? It makes no difference if you did it or not, everyone will think you did and it will give people on DZ.com something to talk about! I guess you would not care, after all, it is for the children. How do you think we got into the Iraq mess to begin with? Could it be lies???????????

The link I posted is about the Texas case. And doing a news search will give you more info about that case. If you think it's just a big government conspiracy, fine; I can't prove to you that it's not. But I don't believe it is. I also don't believe that anyone in this case is necessarily guilty (because I don't have enough information to say that), but it sounds like there was enough evidence to take the children into temporary custody while the situation is further examined (which is what they are doing). It's a horrible situation for the kids inolved, but I'm not sure how it could be handled differently. My point is that I think the government has lied concerning its probable cause to invade this compound, and you have failed to prove me wrong.

QuoteHere is one story: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89476130 But I think you have to look beyond the current situation in TX and look at the recent history of FLDS to see that there is a good chance that sexual abuse was happening at the Eldorado compound. Guilty by association……was that just added to the US Constitution? Where are the facts concerning the Texas Case?

That happened in Utah, not Texas. The Texas Ranger could not even arrest Barlows a few days ago and his probation officer can prove he has been in Utah. Does that not sound odd at the very least? Where and who is the girl the called for help? Why do they not even know the name of the person they are supposed to arrest for this crime? And how can you belive what the police say has happend if they cannot even provide these simple facts? The cops have more together in traffic court than this case! Please post info on the Texas case.

I have driven a Ferrari Test before and that was sweet........but never and Lambo. There is a guy who lives not far from me that has an orange one just like the picture.

Interesting... All the information I've heard has also been from news websites, and it seems to me that they have quite a bit of evidence showing that underage girls in this group have been forced to marry and have sex with older men. Post some please.

Then you must not have heard much about it. Caver said no one was found inside the temple. But a Texas Rangers affidavit released Wednesday cited evidence that included unmade beds in the temple that an informant said were used for grown men to have sex with their young "spiritual wives" after weddings. _______________________________________________ I quickly read through about 8 articles at the CNN website and this is about the best I could find concerning the evidence of mass abuse of young girls. But, I could have missed something.

Then you must not have heard much about it. Probably. I do not watch TV at all, so I miss much of what most people think it true information. I have read a number of websites concerning this case, but the gossip is mostly left out of written word.

No, that's not what I said, nor is that similar to what happened at the FLDS compound. I have not heard that the government had info that most, some, few or even a couple of girls had been mistreated. I have only heard that they had one girl make a call and they have no idea who she is. "Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance, others mean and rueful of the western dream"

It is all over the news........Read what I pulled from the local ABC website. "Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance, others mean and rueful of the western dream"

If they couldn't identify the stolen rig mentioned in the call, but found substantial evidence that most all the rigs at the DZ were stolen, then yes, I would expect all the rigs to be confiscated. I would like to make sure I understand.......the cops show up to the DZ and they say "someone, we do not know who, called and told us a stolen rig was being jumped here and we do not know what rig it is......BUT we are taking all of them just to be sure we get the right one" And you are fine with this? You think this is reasonable actions on the part of the police to take a 100K worth of equipment? I would like to make sure I understand you. "Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance, others mean and rueful of the western dream"