davelepka

Your jumps would be alot safer if you did the same thing every time. From gear up, to the plane ride, gear checks, in freefall, and under canopy, TM's have a routine they repeat over and over again. How often do you check your handles in freefall? TM's are supposed to do it every jump. What is your WL, and how many jumps do you have? TM's are always jumping at a lower WL (around 1 to 1 or so) and have at least 500 jumps, most of them with experience on sport canopies at higher WL's. How high do you pull? TM's are up above 5k. That gives them extra time to deal with problems (on lightly loaded canopies), and extra alt. to help minnimize off field landings, even after a cutaway. If sport jumpers worked within the same confines as a TM with regards to the above points, skydiving would be safer.

***Can you say, "what's wrong with this picture"? ==================================== It's the jumpers who cannot keep an eye on the Slink for a half days worth of jumping unitl they take a set. Give it time, someone will figure out a way to screw up a HiPer link too.

***I'm being closely observed and trained by an extremely experienced jumper (somewhere around 10,000, tandem master, master rigger, IAF instructor, coach) that we all consider a safety freak ================================== Allrighty then, is this giuy "coaching and training" you how to swoop, or is he telling you enough to hopefully keep you in one piece because he knows that you are going to swoop no matter what anyone tells you? Ask him this, "Would it be better for me to dial it back a notch, and work on the basics instead of strarting to swoop with my experience level?" His answer to the second question should provide you with the answer to the first question.

***I'm a crater waiting to happen, I'm gonna die or break somethin, blah blah blah, it's all been said so don't bore me w/ how I'm going to kill myself, we'll all die some day. ================================ OK, but are we all going to die on a DZ? How do you think the DZO wil feel when trying to manange the bad press of a fatality? What about the staff (and DZO) who are going to experiecne a loss of income because you acted like a dumbass, and now the DZ is shut down for several hours due to ambulances/helicopters in the landing area? OR Do you have health insurane? If so, your reckless actions, and the possible severe trauma will ring up untold medical bills (possibly for the rest of your life) the burden of which the rest of us will have to bear via increased insurance premiums. No insurance? You've just dug yourself a hole of debt you'll never see the top of. Your friends and family will end up supporting you while you struggle to pay off a small percentage of the bills. Those same friends and family may also end up wiping your ass for the rest of your life depending on the extent of your injuries. All of this because you couldn't put in a couple hundred jumps with a conservative canopy, and flying a conservative pattern. With the advanced training available today, you could be out-swooping guys will 1000+ jumps if you put in 250 conservative jumps, then invested in some one on one coaching. Way to make those good decisions.

***One bad landing, and not even a scrape to show for it. Hasn't everyone had a bad landing at some point =================================== Yes. Everyone has, you are completely right. Do you personally think that jumping a 55 at 4 to 1 all the time is a good idea? Don't you think that it would be far safer to jump something bigger, more in line with whats known as an effective and effiecient wing loading? Even 3 to 1 would be considered excessive, but a HUGE inprovement over the status quo. I understand if you have a personal relationship with the jumper in question, and want to have his back, but do you really believe that a 55 at 4 to 1 is a good idea for day to day jumping? Even if you don't want to publicly admit it, you have to know somewhere deep down inside that he's pushed his luck for too long, and that enough is enough already. Would a VX 70 really be all that bad?

***he chose to land had an upslope; the 55 doesn't have the lift to pull up out of that, He learned to jump at the Ranch ==================================== Why choose to land on the upslope then? He learned there, he knows the landing area, and he flew himself into an upslope. Good thinking. Gald his canopy choice gives him some room for error. More good thinking. I wonder if that Brazilian guy jumps his 39 on every jump, or if he realizes the limitations of that high of a W/L and only jumps it under controlled conditions (and on flat landing areas). That would be some actual good thinking.

Nice job missing every point I made. Despite your inferences otherwise, the post consisted of my opinion, without influence from others. I have only been working at that DZ for a short while in respect to how long I have been skydiving. I came on staff with my own viewpoints, some of them contrary to the mangement, and have stood by my views all along, openly and publicly. The reason you assume that the management of that DZ had an influence on my post is because you're getting the same message from both of us. Take a look at the thread, you're getting the same message from quite a few people. It's not a coincidence, it's beacuse you're wrong.

the not so rich jumper is now expected to buy a rig worth more than his car or anything else he owns the currency rule of 30 days is unjust, unfair, and uncalled for They pretend its a safety factor...its a greed factor. ===================================== Really? No jumper is expected to buy anything. There is better, higher performing equipment available on the market. There is also a weath of used equipment at various pricing levels. A jumper who wants to skydive like it's 1981 can do so for about the same cost as a rig in 1981 (counting inflation). If you want to skydive like it's 2004 (which it is), it's going to cost a premium. You will get better, safer, and more capable equipment for your additional investment, so more jumpers are going with the good stuff. Which leads us to the 30 currency plan. Skydiving ala 2004 needs a 30 requirement. The aforementioned higher performance equipment, combined with the newer styles of skydiving demand a certain amount of currency to be safe. People who doubt this should look to the examples of the old timers who return to the sport after a long layoff. While they may have been proficient in thier day, on the equipment of their day, they find themselves over thier heads on todays modern gear. Fortunately they have years of experience on their side, so when the gear (and their refusal to accept it's potential) gets the better of them, they come away with, lets say, a broken foot, while a jumper without thier backround, would be far worse for the ware. The community is currently suffering from it's total lack of preparedness for the new generation of canopies. The slow response in the training department to accompany these canopies has sent many a jumper to the ER or the grave. As skydiving becomes more complex with ever escalating levels of performance in all areas (canopies, freefall, aircraft, etc) it would be negligent to reduce the currency requirements. This is a different day than you are used to. Jumpers have different expectaitons for themselves, and their equipment. People want to do 10 or 12 jumps per day, they want a ZP canopy that will open soft, flare easily, and give them a 30 ft surf on a straight in landing. These are things that were not possible 20 years ago, but you know what IT'S NOT 20 YEARS AGO.

***I am being respectful to you because you have so much more experience than me (and are probably older than me too), ______________________________________________ Despite that, I'm still a dick. I never learn.

All good points. I would lean toward the 5000ft side of the stated break off range, giving the other jumpers 1000ft to clear the area, and the center-guy time to have a controlled pull with no rush. In consideration of the low jump numbers for the jumper in question, the size of the formation would be very small, say four if two were on the more experienced side, smaller if all had lower jump numbers. While there are some special considerations involved, wanting to dump at 4000ft does need to be a trip to solo-ville at any DZ.

Read carefully, the center refers to the center of a formation, not the center of the exit order. Thats why there's reference to break off (implying that others are present). According to your report, this jumper would be doing solos at your DZ due to his high hard deck. My point was that his pull requirements weren't that far out of line with what others at your DZ are doing as to preclude him from jumping with others. You estimated that he would have to pull by 4000ft to have a 3000ft hard deck. Your own pull requirements are at 3200 to 3300ft. You mean to tell me that 700ft puts this guy at the back of the bus, doing solos at your DZ? Your info regarding deployment time is short sighted, though in line with your experience. Many problems exist and can occur after you have seen four line groups going into a square slider (although it is a good start). A broken line, a stuck slider, a stuck brake toggle, knotted or snagged excess steering line, etc. are all things that could make an otherwise 'good' canopy unlandable. While your freefall may have been arrested, your eventual contact with the ground might not be injury free. Good luck with the toggle whippin', Yahoo.

***At the dropzone I jump at, this will mean you are mostly jumping alone. Most people at my DZ pull at about 3500'-3000' ==================================== If those are the common pull altitudes, add 1000 to 1500 ft for common break off altitudes. That puts break off at 4k (min) to 5k. There's no reason the jumper in question couldn't pull in the center, just after break off, allowing him to jump with others. For a guy who's never had a cutaway, you seem to have alot to say about deployments and what will and won't work. Take a giant step back and think about what you don't know.

***There is a slight advantage for the x-braced ------------------------------------------------------ It's more than slight.

***you do not have immediate control of your canopy --------------------------------------------- I think I said this in the other thread. The idea is that any change in pitch or roll for your canopy is dependent on your body shifting in the opposite direction of the intended movement, i.e. if you want to turn left, your body weight will have to shift to the right for this to happen. If you are already off to the side of your canopy (in a turn) and need to flare, your body weight needs to shift out ahead of your canopy (causing the canopy to pitch upwards and arrest your decent). The further your body weight is from the neutral center position (where it is during straight flight) the longer it takes your body weight to facillitate your intended changes in direction. The difference in 'time to control response' for your canopy between recovering from a toggle turn as compared to a riser turn is not that great. Although the difference is slight, every step you can take to stack the cards in your favor is an important one. A riser turn can and will put you into an unrecoverable situation very quickly. In response to the incident in question, the toggle turn may have been used out of neeed. At the low-ish wing loading the female jumper was at, a 270 front riser turn may have taken more strength than the jumper had. The toggle turn on the other hand, would have been much easier to manage.

Here's a guess, it's the money. Most dealers or stores aren't buying rigs and such expressly for demo purposes (that would be expensive). Maybe they are using used gear from thier inventory, or they wree given some demo models by a manufacturer to use. Either way it's a case of using what happens to be available, which means that it will be sufficeint for most jumpers needs, but not tailored directly to any one jumpers needs.

***I stated clearly that I do not have the experience to do this. ================================ Here's the thing, with the possible exception of the two guys from the WFFC, nobody has the experiecne to do this. Landing a Mr. Bill takes very little in the way of skydiving ability. Being able to pull off a Mr. Bill, and being able to land a canopy is all it takes. Not falling off under 1000ft takes 'holding on' ability, thats about it. Thnigs that take skydiving ability: Landing a 39 sq ft canopy, building a 300 way, docking a wingsuit with a canopy. These things take 1000's of jumps and careful planning to achieve. That other thing is just holding on.

*** My canopy ride was good, except my landing, ================================= This should be your primary area of concern at this point. Freefall is entertaining, but solid canopy control skills will save your life.

Here are some general comments on this thread. 1. Always have a plan B. If traffic shows up, use plan B. The thing about plan B is that it's built into every swoop approach you make. If you are at 700ft, ready to make a left 270, and you have a traffic issue, go to deepish brakes, do a flat 90 left, and check traffic again for a possible 180 approach. If traffic is still a problem, another flat 90 left will have you set up for a 90 approach, all the way around to a straight into the wind landing. 2. Traffic is always a problem. Every fast canopy pilot should go right into deep brakes, and count canopies upon opening. Take an inventory of who's where, and what they're flying. Look for an opening in the traffic where you can fit in your swoop. If that means getting down and landing first, you can easily do that. If you need to wait, and let some traffic clear, you're already in brakes, how handy. 3. Traffic is NOT everywhere. It may seem like it, but if you run into trouble with your preferred landing area, often times you can get a clear lane elsewhere, and salvage your swoop. Landing in a 'student' area (if DZ rules allow) is an easy out, as the student canopies are slow, and easy to work around. 4. Attempting to set a landing order, or linking the exit order to the landings is a watse of time. Set your exit order according to DZ rules and accepted safety procedures. Enjoy your jump, and worry about your swoop after you (and everyone else) is safely under canopy. Lets face it, for those who these rules apply (swoopers with little canopies), you are supposed to be experienced and accomplished canopy pilots. Put those skills to work, and make your situation what you want on your own. You should all know by now that relying on others to perform a certain way in order for you do your thing is a waste of time. 5. Swooping and traffic manegement are hard to do. To those who are learning to swoop, you may have to trade a couple thousand feet of freefall, for a clear landing area in which to practice. Break off at 6k, and open by 4k will give you all the room you need to do what you want to do. Now when I say open at 4k, thats followed by 3k of sitting in deep brakes, letting the rest of the load get down. Any way you look at it, if you are focused on traffic, you're not focused on your approach (and vice versa).

***One more reason to get a vector3... linkless bridle attachment ================================= Ive had this on my rig since before the Vector 3 came out. Many bags can be larks-headed onto the attachment point of the canopy. It may take a little work to get the bag/PC/bridle through the opening, but it can be done. Viola, linkless attachment. Vector 3's are nice, though.

***the sky hook now deploys the reserve differently ----------------------------------------------------- It still deploys the reserve immediately after a cutaway, regardless of the position of your camera helmet (as in pinned back by your twisted risers after you filmed your canopys attempt to open). For this reason it doesn't seem any better than an RSL.

***The only canopy I have ever stalled was a Nav 280 that was VERY lightly loaded. I really did not enjoy the resulting ~6 foot drop to the ground =================================== This is why you stall a canopy intentionally, at altitude. Once you have experienced it safely at 2000+ ft, you are less likely to do what you did at 6 ft. The outcome would have been worse if you had done this a second or two sooner (as in 10 or 12 ft higher).

Your riser pressure is high because your wingloading is low. Thats alot of canopy you're trying to muscle around. Your jump numbers are also low. Others like you have been killed or seriously injured by rushing into swooping.

***The French officials also found several other items which they had never seen before including testicles and a backbone. ---------------------------------------------------------- Funny stuff. I know this can't be true because he only has one testicle, and the report indicated "testicles"

Rear riser landings (as in straight in), try one today. Rear riser swoops, not just yet.

He pulled a nice (although slow) ghostrider with one of our student rigs (w/ Navagator) the last time he was at our DZ. Good stuff.