Newbie

I know mate, don't worry, we'll get round to some tomfoolery soon enough! . I actually want to do a little of what you have been doing, like flat way camera work etc so my flat skills don't totally fall off, so will be looking to get some advice on that from you. It's wifey time this weekend so i won't be up but hopefully the weekend after, weather permitting. Will let you know next week how it's looking!

Thanks D, it was really good to finally meet you and hang out. Shame we didn't get to jump, but all good things come to those who wait eh "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts

Hi, you just missed out on a discussion on this in another thread here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1726587;search_string=c31;#1726587 C:31:XX errors are pretty common and can be a number of things. I got mine for the second time last week, changed the battery and tape, and it works fine again (for now). Check out that thread, hope it helps somewhat. "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts

Went up and did a few hd attempts with a friend who is a very competent head up flyer and he acted as my reference point. Surprisingly to me, i managed to hold a stable head down position from the second jump with him, with fairly minimal back sliding, but i was careful to pop into a sit before too much separation and keep up the vertical speed. Went and got a coached jump with Yoav from Arizona who is out with us for a few months (really nice guy) and here are some pics from that jump starting with the transition to hd from exit, then release, then moving in nice and close. Man, i can't begin to describe how nice it was, and the experience - this was on only my 7th hd specific jump, and to be inverted, stable, not backsliding, and tracking him on the spot somehow, not sure how i was doing it, but just thinking about wanting to turn and doing it as he effortlessly carved around me was about as good as it gets for me. I was totally stoked to say the least. Got some very good advice from Yoav on what to work on (mainly extending my lower leg out and widening my stance, and working on arm position), but the overriding thing was feeling so elated at flying close to someone in hd, with him flying there with me, smiling from ear to ear, smiling at each other, then waving off in hd, and banana peeling smoothly into a fast track, then getting down off the jump and walking up to him, beaming, absolutely unable to stop smiling, and having him say how nice the jump was - amazingly to me, he seemed almost as stoked about it as i was! Anyway just wanted to share my experiences in this new orientation with you guys because right now i feel like the proverbial kid in the candy store

Yes, it must be true, given that news report is coming out of Washington. Given that Western Europe just experienced it's first round of suicide bombers last week, in the name of Al Qaeda, i find this article almost completely pointless to be honest. Even if support amongst marginals is down as the article claims, those aren't the sorts of people we care about. It's the handful of extremists who will never swerve from his word that we should focus on. "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts

So you dont want cheap service staff, crops, inexpensive restaurant meals, cheap hotels? I wonder, if companies started to bring out "Illegal Immigration Free" products and services, and started charging more than double what you now pay for them, just how many of your would put your money where your mouths are. Would you? "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts

I agree with you - legal way is the best way. But, you have to understand and appreciate (as i'm sure you do) the legal means to now enter your country for a low skilled migrant worker is next to impossible. There is no way (from my understanding of the immigration laws there) they will be eligible to enter the country legally. I think the misconception is poeple are doing this illegally because they have the option to do it legally, but for whatever reason are not taking that option. Given the immigration laws there, i would assume that you see so many illegals enter because frankly, they don't have the option to work there legally, unlike those who arrived even 50 years ago, who were able to enter the US far more easily and remain there. "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts

Of course you own the area it occupies, but does owning a house mean i should stop others coming here so they can buy their own too? Does it mean i call this "my" country and afflict some right of ownership over who should be able to come here? No. All it does is show me that if i can be comfortable, anyone should be allowed to be comforable as my neighbour, as long as they want to make a contribution to society, legally or otherwise. If someone wants to come here, and mop floors in a restaurant and clean up after us illegally so they can live the life i'm lucky enough to have, go right ahead i say. Just because you have some material possession gives you no right to call a country "yours" in my opinion. Contribution to society and other citizens lives makes you a true "owner" of that land, not through material possessions. "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts

Do you actually think a college student is going to clean rooms or mow a lawn during the summer. Hell no. Most are looking for internships in their fields. Which looks better on a resume: mowed lawns for the summer or interned at Boeing. Yes illegal immigration is a problem, but offer better solutions than militarize the border or hire college kids. Good points, just what i was trying to say in the other post. If you have a link to the SF Chronicle article, i wouldn't mind reading it. "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts

Yes i can see how the influx of cheap labour, and therefore the ability for many businesses in the US to continue to supply you with cheap products and services, is the terrible price you are paying for "subsidising" these 3rd world countries political decisions. Someone already made this point - there is no way you would get the standard of quality of life you have without cheap labour keeping it that way. "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts

My argument isn't flawed because it's human nature - we all want the best for ourselves and our families. That will never change. Do i consider this "my" country? No. I am a citizen of this land, but i don't consider it mine. I don't consider the land where my parents came from mine either. I don't consider any where in the world "mine" because i personally think we should consider it "ours" as in all of ours, but thats too idealistic to many. Just because i pay taxes does not mean i own anything here. It means i get something if i'm unwell (healthcare) it means i get an education for my kids and it means i have police, firefighters and paramedics to help me if i'm in trouble. I don't own anything but i do feel entitled to something. Now if someone comes here, wants to contribute and pay taxes, fine - let them - why should i keep someone down. But the original poster was not saying that - he was saying that these people must be stopped from entering "his" country. Illegals in this country and NOT subject to free health care, just as they are not in the US either, from what i understand. No one here illegally can claim benefits or welfare, the same as the US, from what i can gather. I know Mexicans who came to America decades ago and made a nice life for themselves. They achieved the "American dream", through hard work and made a nice life for their family (surprisingly they only have 2 children!). Not all 10 million Mexicans are illegal, not all 10 million have 10 kids and not all of them do nothing. "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts

Kennewich man has been completely inconclusive, whereas i don't think anyone is going to argue that the Native American Indian population was here before you and your ancestory (unless of course you are Native Indian). Greed on who's side? The fact people want a slice of the good life, or the fact that those who were lucky enough to get in before things got locked down on the immigration front now want to shut them out so it's more for themselves? Policies of birth control? Wow. Not much i can say to that other than if you are going to keyhole people on the fact they want to uproot, maybe leave their families behind in their mother land as many immigrants do, be utterly sad and despondent at this fact, risk their well being and lives and pay a lot of money to some mule just to go work somewhere just so they can get enough money together to pay for their family to have a good life back at home is because they all have 10 kids to feed, well, i don't really know what to say to that other than maybe go ask a few orange sellers why they spend 12 hours a day on the corner, and where their family members are. "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts

_________________________________ I agree! But dammit. We can't afford it. I wish I had the answers but, I don't. The world is getting smaller. It all goes back to the original point of this thread. We welcome the hell out of folks who want to live here and make a better life for themselves and their families. Just go through the friggin' legal process for cryin' out loud! It has nothing to do with racism or Native Americans or the Mayflower. It's about the law. Then too, we have terrorism to be concerned with. Chuck I agree on this wholeheartedly. But, how are people meant to legally settle somewhere that won't legally accept them as citizens in the first place? Am i missing something in US immigration law which says any Mexican citizen can legally come and settle in the US, they just have to mail in a form etc? (i'm asking seriously, because i do know a bit about US immigration law, but i can't believe it would allow for this, but then i could be completely wrong) "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts

It's kind of tough to pin down who "us" is, though. The majority of my ancestors immigrated (legally) to the US between 1910 and 1950. It seems reasonable that other people ought to be able to do the same, but it also seems reasonable that those other people ought to abide by the rules in place about how to do that. and so we have a paradoxical situation that to me is going to be very hard to resolve (not just in the US, but anywhere people wish to migrate to in large numbers, the UK being another such place) "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts

I'm not trying to make that point (at least intentionally). All i'm saying is he states that "our" country is being overrun (when referring to the US). The simple fact is, it was never his to begin with. He has a claim to be a citizen of that place because of a generational move on the part of an ancestor, and that people are always going to want to make a better life for themselves, hence we still see movement and migration of people. He has carved out a slice of life for himself there based on what he now owns, but does he own America? No, he owns a plot of land (i presume), you know, house, yard, maybe business premises etc, but the land itself has been taken from the original inhabitants in the first place anyway. That dog won't hunt neither... Give it a rest. yup good points there, thanks for adding to the discussion. "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts

The fact that he's here legally, and in accordance with the current governing law of the land? The fact that he is a citizen? The fact that he was born within the borders of the US (and hence, is a citizen)? Just a few things that might make him "special". Well that and he's one of the tallest people I've ever met. As i said, he might be there legally, born and bred. But trace his blood lines back. Somewhere you will find his ancestors who were not born and raised in the States, and who were not there legally. Just because his ancestory have moved on several generations, why should that change the fact that people now want to do exactly what his ancestors did way back when? Anyone now legal in the States who was born and raised there got lucky. Somewhere, if you trace the family history back, you will find settlers who came over to make a life for themselves. They got in before immigration laws were tightened to the extent they are today. It's nothing short of luck and it will not stop people from trying to have a similar life to the ones anyone lucky enough to be a US citizen wants for themselves and their family. Now, the argument about whether this is right or wrong is different. All i'm saying is, unless you are 100% blood line Native American, somewhere at some point, your ancestors were immigrants themselves. __________________________________ I can appreciate what you're saying. If, you go way, way back in history (of the world) I think, you'll find what you say, happened in England and a few other countries too. The fact of the matter is, there is a problem. Our immigration laws were 'tightened' at Ellis Island. Not so much on the Southwest border. Chuck It sure did happen here, and still goes on today (at a rate many here think to be unacceptable). I know mass migration of people is a problem, but i think this is a tough cookie to crack, at least if you have compassion towards others not in as fortunate a position as ourselves. After all, if people had turned around to our ancestory when they just wanted to make a better life for themselves and their families and said "tough luck, you can't come here" where would we be today? Yes, things have changed, but motivations and desires of people are still the same. "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts

I'm not trying to make that point (at least intentionally). All i'm saying is he states that "our" country is being overrun (when referring to the US). The simple fact is, it was never his to begin with. He has a claim to be a citizen of that place because of a generational move on the part of an ancestor, and that people are always going to want to make a better life for themselves, hence we still see movement and migration of people. He has carved out a slice of life for himself there based on what he now owns, but does he own America? No, he owns a plot of land (i presume), you know, house, yard, maybe business premises etc, but the land itself has been taken from the original inhabitants in the first place anyway. "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts

The fact that he's here legally, and in accordance with the current governing law of the land? The fact that he is a citizen? The fact that he was born within the borders of the US (and hence, is a citizen)? Just a few things that might make him "special". Well that and he's one of the tallest people I've ever met. As i said, he might be there legally, born and bred. But trace his blood lines back. Somewhere you will find his ancestors who were not born and raised in the States, and who were not there legally. Just because his ancestory have moved on several generations, why should that change the fact that people now want to do exactly what his ancestors did way back when? Anyone now legal in the States who was born and raised there got lucky. Somewhere, if you trace the family history back, you will find settlers who came over to make a life for themselves. They got in before immigration laws were tightened to the extent they are today. It's nothing short of luck and it will not stop people from trying to have a similar life to the ones anyone lucky enough to be a US citizen wants for themselves and their family. Now, the argument about whether this is right or wrong is different. All i'm saying is, unless you are 100% blood line Native American, somewhere at some point, your ancestors were immigrants themselves. "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts

I think most people fled to the US not because they were outcasts but for the same exact reasons they do today - to make (or perceive they can make) a better lives for themselves and their families. The only difference is now, a tourist can barely make it past immigration without a struggle, let alone someone coming to settle there. I for one am extremely glad you guys won your independence from the British. I don't think it's right for one country to be goverened by another, in an empirical way like what the Brits tried to do. "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts

___________________________ That dog don't hunt! Chuck What does that mean? "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts

In your first post you stated: How is it your country? If you and others are arguing that your country is being invaded yet are not native Americans, how can they invade a country that your own ancestory "invaded" themselves? Isn't that double standards? Sure you were born and raised there, but so are many Mexican immigrants offspring too. What makes you so special? "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts

Maybe because he has his Latino nephew George P Bush campaigning the Latino vote for him? "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts

So i take it you are full, 100% blood line native American Indian then? "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts

I don't think there is anything wrong with multiculturalism. It's naive of us to think that with the mass migrations of different races and cultures these days, that suddently, upon entering a geographical border or country, they lose their traditions and cultures from 1000s of years of history and upbringing and become one homogenous group of "Brits" or "US citizens". In fact, if you listen to what the BNP and far right organisations want, it's very much in line with what you have said (please note im not at all saying you believe in that stuff, i'm just saying they are calling for an end to the (so called) "multicultural experiment"). What i think we need, as a group of people (i.e. humans) is tolerance of one another. Accept the fact we are different and tolerate that. I believe tolerance will only come out of open and strong communities, and it is here i think we need to concentrate. If one group - racial, ethnic or religious - is distanced or picked upon, either through their own inactions or the fact they are ghettoised or stigmatised into being that way by others - we are going to have problems. Maybe not with people blowing themselves up, but we are going to have problems that will manifest into grievances, which could then turn into something worse. Rather than try to make everyone the same culturally, which is unrealistic, we should be looking at making sure we have communities that interact strongly with one another and are tolerant of one another. The only thing every community in this country should not tolerate, are those groups on the fringes who are preaching intolerance and hate themselves and trying to undermine the stable existence we are all trying to eek out for ourselves. "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts

I would like to know how he plans on doing all this when: a) the vast majority of muslims who are moderate, are scared/casting a blind eye against the more extreme fanatacists who operate in their midsts (just ask how many death threats Iqbal Sacranie has had this month from his so called "own people" because of his moderate views to give you an idea of what moderate Muslims - aware or not of the more extreme elements around them - are up against). b) deporting people or tightening borders - how will that stem the root cause of this? I certainly believe any British citizen preaching hate against those that live here - Muslim, Christian, Jewish or anything extremists alike - should have their citizenship revoked and get the boot - but i'll be the first to admit thats a short term solution. After all, you might boot people out, but that just drives things under ground and knocks it off the radar - how is that going to stop people blowing themselves up and fitting in because they successful keep their views to themselves and their close friends? c) the angry whites who want to kick off with Muslims because of whats happened, fuelling further racial tension/hatred, and causing the cyclical problem to continue to manifest itself. I don't know - i know we need to do something but i just don't have a clue how this is going to work when there is far more going on in the background (the war in Iraq being the biggie). "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts