masterrig

_____________________________ Looks to me like, he's gonna order a Wings. Chuck

Yup! Give every prisoner a pay raise! How about, say... $20.00 an hour. Every cent they earn, goes into an interes earning savings account. The day that prisoner is released, he doesn't get one red cent of it... all that money, goes to his victims as 'retribution'! Like someone said in this thread, prisons are places of higher criminal education and the outcome is just better crooks. Shariff Arpaio in Arizona has the idea on handling prisoners. Chuck

Number 1, looks classy. The others are too 'loud'. Chuck

I'd have my pistol ready and try to peek out a window to see for sure who it is. I'd yell back to let them know I was there. As for that 20-second rule, it's rarely used. As I mentioned before, announce/kick takes paperwork but, that's how it's done. Where I live now, I don't worry about that kind of thing... that's why, I moved to the mountains! Right, but not everyone has the luxury of moving to the mountains. In particular, that 92 y.o. woman probably didn't. She was just stuck in a dangerous neighborhood where a lot of bad people had guns. And if you had been in her place and would have acted differently, please let us know. ____________________________________ I'm really, not sure where, you are going with this. You didn't know that woman. To be realistic, she may never have been a 'sweet little old lady'. Then again, she might have baked cookies for the neighbor kids. There's a whole bunch we don't know about the whole situation... we weren't there. Making-up scenarios and 'what if's' will get us no-where. What I do in a situation has no bearing on what you or anyone else would do in a certain situation. This thread, needs to die a sudden death! Chuck

Yeah Randy Weaver moved to the mountains as well. __________________________________ Yup! No more car burglars, dope dealers, boomin' car stereos, gang-bangers and all that other crap. The most violence I've seen here was, buck deer bumpin' antlers. The most noise has been the birds chirpin' or the breeze blowin' through the trees. Chuck

The question remains. What would you do if you heard a pounding on your door, people yelling that they are police and you have 20 seconds to unlock and lie spread eagle on the floor. And there was no way for you to know if they really were cops or not. ______________________________ I'd have my pistol ready and try to peek out a window to see for sure who it is. I'd yell back to let them know I was there. As for that 20-second rule, it's rarely used. As I mentioned before, announce/kick takes paperwork but, that's how it's done. Where I live now, I don't worry about that kind of thing... that's why, I moved to the mountains! edit to add: Any of the home invasions that took place in the town I moved from, they were gang-bangers and didn't announce shit! They kicked-in the front door and held the occupants at gun point while others took cash and valuables. Chuck

What, exactly, is the logical difference? The police officer is not generally considered a threat to the public / law and order. That doesn't seem to be the case this time. I'm sure the grandkids are cool with grandma's death, since it was the cops who killed her. ______________________________ What were the cops supposed to do? "Sorry granny! Didn't know how old you were. We'll just leave!" How did they know, at the time, her true age. To the cops, it could've been someone in disguise. We don't know every aspect of this incident. All we have is what the press says. We don't have all sides of the story. Unless we find-out otherwise, I'm takin' the cop's side. They got the wrong address (as it turns out). Poo-poo happens. Somebody, just anybody, show me where, the cops in this incident 'showed intent' to harm a 92-yr. old woman! The cops acted in defense of their own lives. They acted the way they were trained. That's the way it is. Folks who don't like the way the cops are... get-out there and change it. Chuck Just like the Amadou Diallo case, eh? Blame the victim, the cops can't be wrong. What with a "I want to be a war president" CinC who lies his way into a war, and people who defend cops doing things like this, no wonder we have a violent society. __________________________________ We've basically, been a so-called 'violent society' since the Pilgrims. It's real easy to be a Monday morning quarterback. None of us was there. None of us has all the facts. Chuck

I agree. If, they did screw-up, they need to be held accountable... just like anyone else. Chuck

What, exactly, is the logical difference? The police officer is not generally considered a threat to the public / law and order. That doesn't seem to be the case this time. I'm sure the grandkids are cool with grandma's death, since it was the cops who killed her. ______________________________ What were the cops supposed to do? "Sorry granny! Didn't know how old you were. We'll just leave!" How did they know, at the time, her true age. To the cops, it could've been someone in disguise. We don't know every aspect of this incident. All we have is what the press says. We don't have all sides of the story. Unless we find-out otherwise, I'm takin' the cop's side. They got the wrong address (as it turns out). Poo-poo happens. Somebody, just anybody, show me where, the cops in this incident 'showed intent' to harm a 92-yr. old woman! The cops acted in defense of their own lives. They acted the way they were trained. That's the way it is. Folks who don't like the way the cops are... get-out there and change it. Chuck

[ Actually, an automatic is better at this. A clutch will eventually burn out. __________________________________ Not if you don't use it! I've driven standards all my life and have put over 100,000 miles on a truck and never touched the clutch or drive train. I was taught, "the clutch is to get you moving. Other than that, keep your foot off of it!" I've driven standards in everything from VW 'beetles' to big rigs and everything in-between. It's just however you are taught. Chuck

_____________________________ Right-on! Chuck

The problem is not so much whether intel is good or bad, we nothing's perfect and mistakes will be made. There's always the chance that the 20 second rule will come to your door. But even that, in and of itself, isn't the problem. The real problem is that the 20 second rule allows people to impersonate the police and thereby gain entry to your house. If the police had to slip a warrant under the door to get in, you would never be faced with not knowing whether you're resisting the police or simply defending your home. That's why the 20 second rule is bad law, in spite of its tactical advantages in certain situations. _____________________________________ If, someone is going to impersonate a police officer, it's not necessarily a home invasion situation. A short while back, we had a mother-son 'team' working the highways in the area. They had an old police car and were pulling people over, flashing phony badges and robbing them. I don't care how you slice it. A law gets made... someone is going to find a way to get around it or flat, break it. Any of the home invasions in our area, the 'gangers' just kicked-in the doors, flashing guns and catching folks off-guard. Seems like, if the crooks identified themselves as cops, they're just tacking-on another charge against them. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. Then too, crooks are mostly idiots to begin with. Chuck

I trust you have read the remainder of the thread by now. Your concerns have been addressed. If you still have any questions, feel free to ask for clarification. ______________________________ After having read the rest of this thread, I've gotten my answer. Chuck

Not only was he using that shit... he was dealing crack to kids!!! I can't see where, the war on drugs is treasonous or creates crime. Help me out with that point. It's like any other business... supply and demand. The sellers have the 'supply' and those who crave it are the 'demand'. Chuck

I'd have to agree with you! Someone brought-up the subject of 'intel'. When the intel is not good, we tend to hear of the wrong doors getting kicked-in. The wrong doors will get kicked-in especially, when the bad guys give an incorrect address when booked for an offense. I know that because, that's what one of my ex neighbors did. We informed the cops, he was giving the wrong address and he was subsequently arrested on several drug charges. Chuck

You're right! Just from the news article in the original thread, the cops acted within the 'rules'. The '20-second rule' that was mentioned is used more by the Feds. Knocking on the door, announcing police presence and kicking-in the door, all in rapid succession, can be done... legally. There's a lot of paper-work involved but, it can be done. Chuck

"Pour it on my meat, too!" "Just beat it till it's stiff!" Chuck

Once again... Chuck

Unfortuantley we would have to put that on your headstone: He waited to ensure it wasn;t the cops until it became painfully obvious it was home invaders. RIP. ___________________________________________ Chuck

Here we go, again! Chuck

I got ahead of myself and missed the part where she died. Warrants state 'particular' parties at a residence or business, whatever. NOT every occupant. As to how long between the announcement by the officers they were there and when the door got kicked-in well, we'd have to have been there. All we have to go by is what the press puts in their newspaper. You know as well as I do, the cops don't 'just blow old ladies apart'. C'mon dude... gimme a break. You and I have been down this road before. Lively little thread, though. Chuck

I believe, I'd be 'prepared' to shoot till I found-out for sure whether or not they are in fact, police officers. Are you willing to take the chance that it's NOT a police officer and just shoot? Chuck

(I get the same feeling you have.) Yeah to the cops! How do they know that there is a 92-yr. old woman shooting at them... at night? Just going by the news story, the police acted in 'self defense'. The ol' gal is lucky she's alive! As for an apology to her... I don't think so. It should be the other way around. The cops acted properly. Chuck

That's no lie! You should see our plane! Chuck

With, "As the Prop Turns", ya' gotta keep-up! I got lost, a long time ago. Chuck