beowulf

Why do you think I am ridiculing? Not knowing the answer is why questions are asked.

That doesn't explain why so many hate each other and claim the others are going to hell for their beliefs. Do you think Mormon are included in your "one true Christianity"?

The important thing is they are each the one true Christianity! Just ask each of them!

The reason it has no credibility is there is no evidence to support it's claims. There is nothing to support the existence of any spiritualism. So maadmax's claims of spirit this or that is indistinguishable from fantasy.

No, and I don't jive with a 6000 year earth history either. The Bible's emphasis is spiritual Truth. Misguided people who fail to interpret the Bible correctly and try to make it say things it doesn't do it a disservice. ... So YOU can ignore things the Bible says that don't "jive" with your views of spiritual truth, but call others who do the same "misguided". Sounds like cherry picking HYPOCRISY to me. It only makes sense that it's a fantasy and each person or group of people define their fantasy in their own way. That's why there are so many different sects of Christianity and each believe they have the one true interpretation.

This sounds more like liberals to me Not sure what your point is, what do you mean by liberal? Democrats? If so I think both liberals and conservatives exhibit that arrogance, but religous teachings is based on such arrogance.

No they just assume they are right and everyone else is wrong, typical arrogance.

Sounds more like gullibility. This is a huge assumption and it is very egotistical. The appearance of order does not mean it was created that way.

Yeah, I can agree with you. This is how I view it. I find ironic and egotistical that many Christians consider themselves to be humble while at the same time believing there is an all know ing god looking out for them and that they "know" this god created everything. The other irony is that many consider themselves to be a minority or that they are persecuted for their beliefs, despite Christians being the majority in this country.

You are most probably right. Anyone that is taking anything on this forum seriously is going to be upset all of the time. Outside of this forum I rarely talk about religion. I prefer to avoid it because I have found many religious people get very upset when they find out I don't believe anything they do. Not sure why they take it so personally.

Just asking questions to get people to think. This is entertainment. I don't really care what they believe in. They have made grand claims and act like they have evidence to support it. I am not taking this personally.

OK, Jesus said if you hold to My teachings you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free. -CHECK I came that you may have life and have it abundantly -CHECK “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. -CHECK “I am leaving you with a gift—peace of mind and heart. And the peace I give is a gift the world cannot give. So don’t be troubled or afraid. -CHECK No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure -CHECK for God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control -CHECK ... As far as I can tell that is all pure fantasy. What objective evidence do you have support it? Just quoting a book that was written a long time ago by unknown authors is not enough.

Ask yourself this... What has religon predicted that has turned out to be true? Make a list and compare that to the list of things that science has predicted to be true and has turned out to be true. Try and be honest.

Many times in my short life, science has presented the " facts " only to later say oops whee got that wrong but but this time you can believe us cause we really got it right. There is little we can know & be absolutely certain. All any of us can do is form a set of beliefs based on information we gather and then continually test those beliefs over time. ... It doesn't appear that you are testing your beliefs. You haven't pointed to any evidence to support your claims. Science changes as new information becomes available. You seem to be confused about what science does. It doesn't ask you to believe with out any supporting evidence.

The way to confirm a belief is to start by discarding all assumptions and begin investigating based on a clean slate assuming nothing. If it doesn't hold up to such a rigorous investigation then it's most likely not a belief based on reality.

If you beliefs are indestinguishable from fantasy then the applications are based on fantasy. However, my Christian beliefs are based on my personal experience, confirmed by the Holy Bible and validated by other Christians. Be advised, I am starting to grow weary. That doesn't distinguish your beliefs from fantasy. Your personal experiences can be misinterpreted. Especially if you are assuming your beliefs to be true. Confriming your beliefs by using the Holy Bible and other Christians is no way to confirm whether or not your beliefs are distinguishable from fantasy. It's assuming them to be based on reality.

If you beliefs are indestinguishable from fantasy then the applications are based on fantasy.

How do you know it's "The Proper Perspective"? This assumes "God" exists. There is no evidence to support this assumption. How is this distinguishable from fantasy? All I read in this is a lot of assertions with nothing to back them up with.

I seek reality checks from people whom I respect and value their wisdom. An example would be my fellow counselor's when I was employed. Another would be the pastor or elders in my church. My wife is excellent at defining reality. Do you have one? So you are saying you compare your belief with others of similar beliefs? And you really think that's a good way to determine if your belief is a fantasy?? All that does is reinforce your beliefs and never challenges them. I use reality checks to explore and validate or negate my fantasy. My beliefs are not challenged in that regard at all. My beliefs are challenged in their applications. It doesn't appear that you are doing any reality checks if all you are doing is comparing your beliefs to others with similar beliefs. Your application of your beliefs are done with the assumption that your beliefs are reflecting reality. If your beliefs can't hold up to questioning or challenges then they are worthless. How are your beliefs in a supernatural deity distinguishable from fantasy? If you can't answer that then it is a fantasy.

You can't. My beliefs are my best attempt to hopefully make just a little sense out of the chaos. You keep denying spiritual reality by claiming lack of proof. Just look in the mirror, the fact that you can identify yourself is a spiritual phenomenon. Matter, energy or any law of physics does not have self awareness. Nor do they have anything to do with morality. Love is always superior to hate, empathy is much more desirable than apathy, self-deification is despicable, self-denial & surrender are the keys that unlocks spiritual Truth. Again you are making a claim with no evidence to support it. How do you come to this conclusion? What evidence to you have to support it? Not sure why you threw this in, no one has made that assertion. You have yet to establish that there is any such thing as spirit much less a "spritual Truth", whatever that is supposed to mean. "self-denial & surrender" sounds more like gullibility. Again you are long on assertions and extremely short on evidence.

That part is true. That is an opinon that some people have. The US is subject to similar problems and issues as other countries but not exactly the same problems and issues because no two countries are exactly alike.

How do you determine fantasy from reality? I seek reality checks from people whom I respect and value their wisdom. An example would be my fellow counselor's when I was employed. Another would be the pastor or elders in my church. My wife is excellent at defining reality. Do you have one? So you are saying you compare your belief with others of similar beliefs? And you really think that's a good way to determine if your belief is a fantasy?? All that does is reinforce your beliefs and never challenges them.

How do you determine fantasy from reality?

How is that distinguishable from fantasy? It is a belief. When I started grad school one of my first homework assignments was to distinguish between feelings, beliefs and fantasies. That doesn't answer the question. How is your belief distinguishable from fantasy? That is an important question. If you can't distinguish your belief from fantasy then it is a fantasy. You are not a believer. Therefore, your question is irrelevant. I am a believer and my beliefs are validated by the Word of God, my personal experience and my fellowship with other believers. So you don't have any objective evidence to distinguish your beliefs from fantasy? The question is relevent to anyone wanting to validate their beliefs. If you can't objectively distinguish your beliefs from fantasy then it logically follows that your beliefs are fantasy.

How is that distinguishable from fantasy? It is a belief. When I started grad school one of my first homework assignments was to distinguish between feelings, beliefs and fantasies. That doesn't answer the question. How is your belief distinguishable from fantasy? That is an important question. If you can't distinguish your belief from fantasy then it is a fantasy.