fcajump

I wish there was a central repository for stuff like this for riggers. Some rigs are easy, this one is "as new" that one is beat to sh!t and I can pull it apart with my hands... Its the 18 year old, mostly good, slightly sunfaded, velcro picked with a selvage edge nick low on the running end of the leg strap that worry me... Samples/examples/studies and tests of the old gear would be much better at helping us inspect and, if needed, explain why a trusted rig shouldn't be trusted (or packed) any more. JW PS - think about it... do you really want to continue using the gear until all service life is used up? (i.e. it won't take even one more jump) Unless you are willing to do that, then yes... you are going to retire a rig that "still has some life left in it." Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

" ....................................................................... In March 1986, DJ Associates (hardware wholesalers) issued "MS 7010 Warning Notice" about rough edges on lightweight chest strap buckles. Several harness manufacturers installed these defective friction adapters. The last defective one - that I found - was on a '94 Talon. The problem originates during manufacture, and should be caught by inspectors before it leaves the hardware factory. Remember that MS 70101 are one of the few pieces of parachute hardware cold-stamped from sheet steel. As I recall that's why the part was changed to "MS 70101-1" and now "PS 70101-1", to indicate that it's been further processed (tested?) to ward against that issue. Before my time, but good stuff to know. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Personal opinion: Shipper unless specified otherwise before hand. The shipper can ship it with insurance and tracking. (At this stage the buyer is at the mercy of the shipper's choices.) The shipper can also require additional charges be paid as part of the sale. If the buyer doesn't want the additional charges, then the buyer is taking responsibility for the possible loss/damage. But, that's just how I do business. BTW - consider: if you don't know each other, but can find a mutually known/trusted rigger, arrange to ship the rig (insured) and payment to the rigger. That way a inspection (if wanted/required) can be performed. Once the inspection is done and accepted by the buyer, the rigger can ship the rig one way and the payment the other. (You also need to agree before hand who is paying shipping and for the inspection.) JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Soft - worn, cut, frayed, older than the line set? Properly installed? Are you sure?? If they are not tacked, it's not a bad idea to ask your rigger to do it ___ Lines - cut/frayed? Asymmetrical from side to side? Any opening problems? When did you or your rigger last check the line trim? Are the brake lines still the correct length (slight bow at full flight with no tail deflection)?? Note that if only the brake lines are frayed, you can have only those replaced. ___ Slider - any holes/tears? Run your fingers around the inside of the grommets... any sharp spots? (they tear up lines quick). Got slider kill lines? Are the channels still intact, correctly sewn down and without holes? Note: if you still have pull tabs (like me) talk to your rigger about changing them for no-tab kill lines... their less likely to get caught in a cascade and result in a stuck slider during deployment. ___ Canopy - holes, tears (what about in the ribs? (keeping in mind that there are crossports and they should be there, but they should be generally straight and not completely frayed, talk to a rigger for further info on them))? When did you last actually LOOK at the whole canopy? Can you hang it up to take a close look?? Are the line attach points still secure to the canopy? Are all the slider stops still secure and are their pockets in good shape? ___ Bridle attachment - is it pulling loose? What about the reenforcement inside both halves of the center cell? What about the support tape? They can and do get cut and fray, bad enough could turn your d-bag into a free bag. ___ Bridle attachment link - good condition? (see link notes above) ___ D-Bag - holes? Are the grommets still in good shape? (round/fully seated/no chance of a line getting under the edge) Stow attach points in good shape? Correct size/shape for your container?? Are the bands the right size for your lines? Are they matched (type/size/condition)? ___ Bridle - cuts/frays/broken stiches?? How's that pin attachment? You'd look silly if the pin stays in place as the bridle rips away... (ok, more than silly, but you get the point...) ___ Pin - Smooth? No burs that will cut the closing loop? If you have an older pin - is there any chipping/pealing/missing platting? ___ Kill line - proper length? (when fully cocked, the kill line should be slack with the PC crown line taking the tension) Is the "cocked" color still visible in the window? ___ PC - wear/cuts/pulls/broken stitches? Handle pulling off? Does it still lift the canopy/D-bag like it used to?? ___ Closing loop - GEEZE... when did you last change that? We'll yea, it hasn't broken yet, but that might be because its 6 inches too long!!! ___ Main container grommets - Nicks, cuts, other damage? Would suck to have a torn up grommet cut your closing loop in freefall. You expect packers to catch these? I replaced 2 grommets on a tandem rig, one was worn almost completely thru... the packers didn't notice/care. Tips: A good way to check any of the grommets for sharp edges or "feathers" is to run a piece of an old nylon stocking/pantyhose around the inside of them. This applies to all grommets on your rig including slider, and should be done on new rigs, or any time you have new grommets on your gear (a new slider perhaps). --------------------------------------------------------- If you're not sure what any/all of this is talking about, ASK!!! Find a rigger and ask them how to check all this stuff. Then DO IT. For what its worth, once you know what you're looking for, it should take you less time to do this check than it did for me to type it up, so don't gimme no SH!T about it taking too long. Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

First - keep in mind that this method was developed when 99% of canopies used that thick dacron lines. I've got them on my canopy and yes, it can be done... its just not easy. Get with an old timey rigger and he'll show you how. Terry - thanks, got interupted while typing my reply and mixed to concepts... Both the Racer and PD manual show the old Dacron line figure 8 method. which is the old tried/true meton. I've known many that have had problems tucking the final run through the grommet, but it can be done (see your rigger). I have also used the bar-tacked / hand tacked loop method with Dacron and it works well but NOT with a knot tied in the loop (as is shown in the PD manual for microline where there is no bar-tack). Again, I would recommend talking with your rigger, but doing a no-knot finger trap loop in the dacron line and then hand tacking does work, but I would again suggest using the hand-tack for temporary use only to get the fine-tune length right, then bar tack for long term use. What I would NOT suggest is a no-knot/no-tack loop. This has too much chance of causing slippage/uneven flare or even lost toggles (inevitably at the worst of times). #1 suggestion, get your rigger involved. JW PS - one thing I like about this forum... instant peer-review. Say something wrong/confusing/mis-leading and you've got your peers to help you clear it up. Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

First - keep in mind that this method was developed when 99% of canopies used that thick dacron lines. I've got them on my canopy and yes, it can be done... its just not easy. Get with an old timey rigger and he'll show you how. Second - once you know that you've got the right place, a bar tack will work and look better. Find a rigger with the right machine and they can do it right. Next - As to the right place, remember that all that finger trapped line shortens the actual length of the line. You may find that it is shorter than you thought unless you actually measured it for total length. (removing a bar-tack is a real pain in the ass... better to measure it, then use a temporary tack and test jump it before you bar-tack.) Finally - temporarary tack (or, to answer your original question) I have done it using super-tack. Sinple stitch up and back ~1-2" and tie with a surgen's knot/locking knot. Best advice on this... see your rigger. (note a theme here??) Advice is free. Following free advice without full understanding and skill can be costly. Use it at yor own risk.

(unofficial) DROPZONE.COM Main System Inspection Checklist ___ Cutaway handle - remove, check for kink, cracks, clean (Ronsonol yellow bottle lighter fluid), lubricate (Ace Hardware Spray Silicon lubricant on cloth), check velcro. While removing the cutaway handle, watch the cables. If the cable on the RSL ( if present ) side riser releases first, ask your rigger for advice. If you have a SKYHOOK ,be really careful not to misroute the long side release cable when installing back the cutaway handle. ___ Risers - any cuts/frays/broken/missing stuff? Rings deformed? Worn velcro? Flex the webbing around the rings. If you have hard housings, make sure they are well-secured and not dangling ___ Links - Hard - cracks in the barrel, loose, deformed? Are they "Mallion Rapide"? (if not, replace) If slider bumpers are installed, check how tight they are. If you can move them towards the canopy without problem, ask your rigger to tack them in place. Soft - worn, cut, frayed, older than the line set? Properly installed? Are you sure?? If they are not tacked, it's not a bad idea to ask your rigger to do it ___ Lines - cut/frayed? Asymmetrical from side to side? Any opening problems? When did you or your rigger last check the line trim? Are the brake lines still the correct length (slight bow at full flight with no tail deflection)?? Note that if only the brake lines are frayed, you can have only those replaced. ___ Slider - any holes/tears? Run your fingers around the inside of the grommets... any sharp spots? (they tear up lines quick). Got slider kill lines? Are the channels still intact, correctly sewn down and without holes? Note: if you still have pull tabs (like me) talk to your rigger about changing them for no-tab kill lines... their less likely to get caught in a cascade and result in a stuck slider during deployment. ___ Canopy - holes, tears (what about in the ribs?)? When did you last actually LOOK at the whole canopy? Can you hang it up to take a close look?? ___ Bridle attachment - is it pulling loose? What about the reenforcement inside both halves of the center cell? ___ Bridle attachment link - good condition? (see link notes above) ___ D-Bag - holes? Are the grommets still in good shape? (round/fully seated/no chance of a line getting under the edge) Stow attach points in good shape? Correct size/shape for your container?? Are the bands the right size for your lines? Are they matched (type/size/condition)? ___ Bridle - cuts/frays/broken stiches?? How's that pin attachment? You'd look silly if the pin stays in place as the bridle rips away... (ok, more than silly, but you get the point...) ___ Pin - Smooth? No burs that will cut the closing loop? If you have an older pin - is there any chipping/pealing/missing platting? ___ Kill line - proper length? (when fully cocked, the kill line should be slack with the PC crown line taking the tension) Is the "cocked" color still visible in the window? ___ PC - wear/cuts/pulls/broken stitches? Handle pulling off? Does it still lift the canopy/D-bag like it used to?? ___ Closing loop - GEEZE... when did you last change that? We'll yea, it hasn't broken yet, but that might be because its 6 inches too long!!! --------------------------------------------------------- If you're not sure what any/all of this is talking about, ASK!!! Find a rigger and ask them how to check all this stuff. Then DO IT. For what its worth, once you know what you're looking for, it should take you less time to do this check than it did for me to type it up, so don't gimme no SH!T about it taking too long. -------------- Thanks so far to Wendy and Deyan! Next time we jump together, remind me I owe you a beer!! JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Wendy/Deyan - GREAT changes! THANKS!! Riggers/experienced - Keep it going if you see something else missing (though I would like to keep it a somewhat generic/normal checklist without any exotics). Students/less experienced - not sure, think you see something but don't want to speak up... no problem. Drop me a line here, or talk over the list with your instructor/rigger. If its a good idea, I don't care where it came from and you guys are in the current training... maybe there's new stuff I missed. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Ok, so a guy walks up to me at the DZ, knows I'm a rigger... says "hey, I just read an article about loose french links, but I'm not sure what to look for..." Glancing around for an example to show him, I see someon walking in from the landing area with his canopy drapped over his shoulder. I call him over and ask to use his links as an example for discussion... Turns out it was a GREAT example... I held it up to the first person and said "This is exactly what you're looking for... see how there are three full threads showing? This is a link about to fail, either on openning or during a critical point in flight." Turned out to be a great example for the one who asked the question, AND we walked the jumper (now ghost-white faced and shaking slightly) over to my kit and checked/retightened all his links. (BTW - example of problem with ill-maintained gear, not with hard-links, which I happen to like) So, lets go over it again... - your rigger only checks the harness, AAD and reserve (either because you don't take the main to him, or because you don't ask him to check the main or because he was too busy to get to it... again) - your packer... well... he packs it... and we consider it "normal" for the packer to be given the rig with the slider reset, brakes stowed, etc... so you think (s)he is checking it for problems?? REALLY?? And neither of these folks are about to hang their life on it at 110-180mph (can you say sit-oops-deploy?) So... once a month, week, day, please inspect on your MAIN system... (unofficial) DROPZONE.COM Main System Inspection Checklist ___ Cutaway handle - remove, check for kink, cracks, clean (Ronsonol yellow bottle lighter fluid), lubricate (Ace Hardware Spray Silicon lubricant on cloth), check velcro. ___ Risers - any cuts/freys/broken/missing stuff? Rings deformed? Worn velcro? Flex the webbing around the rings. ___ Links - Hard - cracks in the barrol, loose, deformed? Are they "Mallion Rapide"? (if not, replace) Soft - worn, cut, freyed, older than the line set? Properly installed? Are you sure?? ___ Lines - cut/freyed? Asymetrical from side to side? Any openning problems? When did you or your rigger last check the line trim? Are the brake lines still the correct length (slight bow at full flight with no tail deflection)?? ___ Canopy - holes, tears (what about in the ribs?)? When did you last actually LOOK at the whole canopy? Can you hang it up to take a close look?? ___ Bridle attachment - is it pulling loose? What about the reenforcement inside both halves of the center cell? ___ Bridle attachment link - good condition? (see link notes above) ___ D-Bag - holes? Are the grommets still in good shape? (round/fully seated/no chance of a line getting under the edge) Stow attach points in good shape? Correct size/shape for your container?? Are the bands the right size for your lines? Are they matched (type/size/condition)? ___ Bridle - cuts/freys/broken stiches?? How's that pin attachment? You'd look silly if the pin stays in place as the bridle rips away... (ok, more than silly, but you get the point...) ___ Pin - Smooth? No burs that will cut the closing loop? If you have an older pin - is there any chipping/pealing/missing platting? ___ Kill line - proper length? (when fully cocked, the kill line should be slack with the PC crown line taking the tension) Is the "cocked" color still visible in the window? ___ PC - wear/cuts/pulls/broken stitches? Handle pulling off? Does it still lift the canopy/D-bag like it used to?? ___ Closing loop - GEEZE... when did you last change that? We'll yea, it hasn't broken yet, but that might be because its 6 inches too long!!! --------------------------------------------------------- If you're not sure what any/all of this is talking about, ASK!!! Find a rigger and ask them how to check all this stuff. Then DO IT. For what its worth, once you know what you're looking for, it should take you less time to do this check than it did for me to type it up, so no SH!T about it taking too long. JW PS - if you feel stuff should be added/changed in this list, great... please quote the entire list with your changes. I'd like to see us end up with a complete checklist that folks could print out and use!

These are ONLY my speculation - From the DZ point of view - they saw a student that they felt was not able, under their instruction, to progress safely. They did not feel that either you (or their instructors) would be able to maintain the level of safety they need. And, when it comes down to it, a fatality (expecially of a student) is much more damaging than turning away someone who just doesn't have the right stuff. From YOUR point of view - they were not able to provide you the specific instruction, techniques, methods, etc... that enabled you to progress safely. Admittedly this level of safety is based on _their_ judgement. But their suggestion, combined with your determination, lead you to instructors with different skills, techniques, abilities and judgement. Assuming that you are now actually progressing safely and learning (rather than being alowed to continue unsafely) the first DZ may have done you two favors: 1 - removed you from a learning environment in which you were not progressing to be a competent/safe jumper... where you were (in their judgement) endangering both yourself, their instructors and their reputation. 2 - provided you with motivation to find instructors and environments in which you can progress safely. Even great mentors and great students must be compatible to be effective. Just a thought. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

One key to what to expect of a rental gear is to see what the DZ's SOP is for student/rental repacks... Years ago, more than one DZ I was at, the more experienced students who had been signed off to pack their own mains we expected to pack the rig they had just used and put it back on the rack for use (even if they weren't going again). While the DZ's I am now do not follow that old practice, take a look at who is packing the rental rigs before agreeing to use it without repacking it yourself. Remember, (in the USA) it is manditory that either a licensed rigger, someone under the direct supervision of a rigger, or the individual who is jumping the gear be the packer of the main. If you're not comfortable with the already packed rig, repack it yourself (with assistance as needed). JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Inspect it? If there were a card for the harness, would you assume that if the card said the AD/SB was done that it was done correctly? Mark Granted, most AD/SB compliance leaves tell-tales that they have been complied with when its being inspected. However, the rig owner has only the card's to go by when the item is not exposed after its been packed. Granted a complete inspection should include all things that are on the table (or floor), but I think that the documents should indicate all work performed on the components. With the current single card system, the documentation of work performed on the harness often moves with the reserve canopy which both looses the information for the first harness and can be misleading when read in respect to a H&C to which the canopy has been moved. I also understand that there are those riggers that routinely remove old pack data cards arguing that the only requirement is for the current work to be logged (and they want their own name/phonenumber on the card). I feel that this does the owner and future riggers a large disservice. Just my thoughts, JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

My $.02 - it would be seen better if you taped a 5-lb bag of flour to your leg and poked a small hole in it... I like Paragear, but those things suck. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

I know that many are going to argue that "its too hard" but frankly I think it is, in the long run, a good thing. For example - if the (1) card goes with the canopy, how do I know if an AD/SB was complied with on the harness container after the canopy has been swapped? Give me a separate card with that data and I don't have to re-run the required test... Not sure I care to worry about the main enough to have a card. HOWEVER, there is a push by some that there should be a way to quickly identify what main is in a particular container, along with its recommended limitations. I'm not sure this needs to be manditory on personally owned rigs (though a good idea), I do think it should be on student/rental gear. (My local DZO has had student/rental rigs embroadered with the size of the main to ensure its easily known.) JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

(Directed in general, RR was just the last in the thread) I'd always been told that the card went with the reserve canopy. This was emphasised to me when I had a rig reharnessed (by RWS) and they sent a separate card marked (by hand) as the H&C maintanance log. Following the aircraft maintanence model, I can see a day when we will have 2 or 3 cards: - H&C - Canopy - AAD And it will be required that all prior cards be kept with the component to show its history (grandfathered in for items serviced prior to enforcement date...). I think PD (with some others in the PEP world) has also been in the lead to communicate to the community that this stuff does not last forever. Just my $.02, JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[replyI think I owe you more than one beer, thanks for the answers, cheers! No problem.

I would not consider it unusual. Among other things, the battery temp seems to affect the voltage. When installing a new battery, I do see a climb in voltage when cycling it through the three recommended times (haven't read the manual lately, but this was recommended to bring it out of "hybernation" if it set on the shelf/frig) JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

For me... practice your procedures (gear checks/climb-out/in-air/deployment/flying/landing) until you know them by heart... then just listen to the instructor until you've acted on the GO command... Focusing on the process helped me get the first one done. Enjoy! JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

(edited to add) Answers change when you move to high-performance gear... yes Maybe There is... but unlikely to be the issue during opening. Personally - kinda one each Alti-III and Alti-track. but to answer the question I think you're asking they both have analog face, don't care for digital numbers, As soon as you are sure you're going to stay with it. Was once... long ago Was that too... but its been a few years, I'm a bit older than that... Yep, after about 2 years (~1/2 of that on my own rig), but that was 20 years ago... yea, but I've had my 'D' for long enough that I don't remember the number... its around here somewhere... Ok, now a question near/dear to my heart... They told me the same thing when I went to buy my own rig. (~220-lbs at the time) Despite the insistance, I bought a new PD-260 9-cell (mind you it was the older F-111 non-ZP fabric) And they were right... after only 10 years and ~600 jumps I started getting bored with it. Now, after 22 years (and gaining a little weight) I've down sized all the way to a 210. Get what YOU are comfortable with as long as it is no more agressive than what you instructors feel you're ready for. Yes, if you buy new, there will be a certain amount of investment loss if you sell soon, but for me there was the reassurance that, in a sport where I did not know allot about gear, I knew the history/condition of the gear from day 1. YES. Yes. First, it will provide a more consistant flight behaviour as you are learning, and as a new jumper, it will help when you land places you didn't plan to... (got drug down the taxi way ~jump #30 very short before I got it collapsed... found holes in both layers of the cordura knees and my jeans, but not in my skin...) rare, but can happen... mostly if the pilot 'chute gets in front and wraps on the lines. videos, I'm sure... just don't have links right now. NOT a reason not to do so (high, clear your airspace, expecially below) just something to keep in mind. Ayinger Altbairisch Dark (cold) Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Not me, but it will depend greatly on the people around and the nature of the DZ. I can see great value to a packing class if it is run well. I see great value to getting training/experience from instructors/riggers/packers at your local club. I think the best might be found at a class being offered (optional) at a DZ where you can learn for free as people have time to assist you... The instructor has insentive to be focused on just teaching (not between jumps, not while teaching other things) and (s)he will know that, since you paid for it you expect to get your money's worth... A manditory (paid) class may not be that focused on getting you your monies worth as much as just checking off the box. Personally - when I've got time, I don't mind helping teach/give pointers... even 1/2 taught a packer I had hired to pack my own main (he was new, my back was sore and I still wanted to jump). JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Another set of things you find with a first jump student in a hanging (real) harness... In a real jumpsuit, with alt, goggles, helmet, etc... Can you see the Alt (or are the goggles causing problems with your glasses)? Can you see the handle (or are your man-boobs in the way)? What does a correctly fitted harness feel like (and why you shouldn't get on a plane until it does). Why guys really don't want to cross their leg straps... Can you see the toggles... no... on the BACK risers... A leaning harness misses all these things that experienced jumpers don't even think about not knowing... (and telling a student is nothing like having then feel/see it for themselves.) JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

(hopefully someone has a picture for us...) Roughly spaaking it is a pair of webbing strung from the ceiling to floor, with a cross strap at about chest height. When you stand behind and lean into these straps, they simulate the main lift webs and chest strap for a rig. The vertical straps have cut-away and reserve handles in the corresponding locations. These handles may (or may not) be connected to weighted lines to simulate resistance. To augment this arrangement, some DZ's also have a belt that the student can wear with a simulated "bottom of container" with an old pilot-chute in a pouch for them to deploy. Not sure if that helps, but as I say, hopefully someone has a picture to replace my 1000 words... JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

For me - the experience of being in a real harness, pulling a real handle against a real force that produced a real result (releasing the 3-ring and dropping a few inchest 'til the reserve risers took over) and having the harness shift from the change and then pulling a real reserve handle (with fake resistance) was much more informative to me as the student than I imagine a leaning harness would have been. Do I know that my reserve pull ~25 jumps later would have been better/worse if I had only been trained on a leaning harness? Nope. But my confidence level (shaky at best) for that first dive was, I believe, a little better for a much practice as possible with real gear. I was the guy you saw always going to the plane with gear on to walk throught the exit when it was shut down (with instructor approval) to get more comfortable with what I was doing... I know you sky-gods don't need realizm in your training, but us chicken-sh!ts need all we can get... BUT I also agree 100% that the leaning harness gives easy access to practice many times even without an instructor. And that helps a lot too...

I do not recall anything in my rigger training (Senior or Master) that permits me to make repairs to TSO'ed components of the aircraft/airframe. It only extends to me the authorization to do so to personnel parachutes. While I suspect that a Master Rigger has more training on repair of webbing sewn components, I suspect that an FAA licensed aircraft mechanic would be required... in the USA. As for France... maybe similar, maybe not... couldn't say. The closest I've been asked to do was a (non-TSO'ed) replacement safety strap for a wing-walker stantion on a bi-plane... Replicated the original part, but no idea who had built that... Original worked for 30+ years. I plan to get them to replace them a little more frequently from now on... JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Ok... I learned in a true, kill your groin, bruise your thigh, handing harness (just like in Fandango) and despite the discomfort, I think it adds considerably to the learning experience. BUT I also see an advantage to the "leaning" harness, including the notion that they can be used by anyone at anytime without assistance... So, whaddya think?? JW And, yes... I know... I forgot some option that somebody wants included... Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...