fcajump

BEAUTIFUL!!!! Never compromise your integrity. The only down side, and I don't pack for one jumper anymore for this same reason... if anything HAD happened, the rigger would be the #1 suspect. I'd never do less than my best, but a known animosity is not a good thing... JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

While I'd like to have a high end system, its just not in the budget... But found a 50-lb fish scale that has a second needle that indicates max force. (shoved into place by the primary needle) I check it with known weights once a year. I use it to check all rigs that come in where the owner has not chosen to test deploy (in the loft of course). Have found 30+ pulls on pack jobs from other riggers and 3 that were last packed at the factory (2 were 50+ lb) JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Sorry for the thread drift, but... their country + their DZ = their rules. Some DZ's in the states require you to have an AAD regardless of your experience, others restrict how you can fly your canopy regardless of your experience. Don't like their rules, no problem... don't jump there. Really want to jump there, but follow your own rules, start your own DZ. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

S~, Thanks for the complete write up. The description as given by the OP did not, in and of itself, give any reason to "ground". (the OP's question) This sounds like a much more complete, rational, reasonable summary of what was found and suggested. While two professionals can do a competent review of equipment and come to two different decisions on assesment, recommendations, repairs, quality and price, (especially when they are from different areas/countries) it did not seem to me that the OP's summary would fit with what I have seen of your approach to rigging. Blue Skies, JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

For the three issues you showed, no. As to reline, condition is not the only criteria. Relative length can be a bigger issue, so you'd have to give some more information on that. Have you done a complete inspection (inside and out)? Ripped ribs, or other internal damage? Just looking for reasons other than the obvious... JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Spent ~800 jumps on a PD-260 and Star Trak II (~300sqr ft) Finally went to a Spectre 230 and after ~300 more jumps picked up a Spectre 210 as well. At the same time (over 20 years) I've gone from an exit weight of 235 to 260. Personally, I would recommend demo'ing a 230. If you don't think you're going to want to stay with it long enough to pay full price, get a used one. Don't be in a hurry to down size, give that 230 a good work out, I think you can find that it's "fun enough" for now. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

I know that this discussion has focused on what to do from the first-person perspective. (and a good discussion it is) For the newer folks I'd like to touch briefly on the question of what to do if you see someone else's handle loose. Get their attention. Point to the problem. Be very careful not to put a hand on it. Let them know. Let them deal with it. A few years ago there was a tragic accident when a newer jumper tried, with all good intentions, to help someone whose ripcord handle was loose. In that case it was at the door, but an ill-timed/unplanned deployment at any time can be very bad. Be careful out there. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

WOW!! broken AltiTrack case 2.5 weeks ago. Talked to L&B about it and my discovery that my JumpTrack wouldn't work with my new laptop (Win7) Shipped 12 days ago first chance I had to get to the PO. Replacement unit, upgraded JumpTrack USB and software already here!!! Should not be surprised, L&B's reputation has always been one of great equipment and great service, and over the years I've used/trusted a Dytter, PRO-Dytter, PRO-Track and my AltiTrack. You'll always have my business and recommendation/referrals. Thanks! FCAJUMP Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Altimaster III on my chest Altitrack on my wrist They are matched all the way up in the plane. They are matched once settled down under canopy. The Altimaster reads ~500-1000' lower in freefall and tracking. Altitrack matches the alerts in my ear from a Protrack. My _theory_ on why the analog chest mount shows a lower altitude is that it is in the relatively higher air pressure area (bow wave effect). Where do you have your Alt with respect to the relative wind during your track?? JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Long time rigger (11 years), first time Racer owner... They pack very different. They have some quirks (like the RSL) that you should learn/understand if you are going to own the rig. As you've already learned, due to their differences, some riggers welcome them while others won't touch them. If you get one, find a rigger that knows and welcomes them. Even if its further/more money, it'll be worth it to work with someone who is in their comfort zone when it comes to working with your last chance. I got one specifically to learn about the differences. I will say its very comfortable (but then so is the Jav Ody I borrow from a friend). No MARD system available. As someone said, around 2003 there were some design changes, so consider that when you are evaluating the rig. Good luck / Blue Skies, JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Geeze, I hope so... All 3 of my reserve rides were on Falcon's. TSO lable intact? Few/no jumps? Airworthy by inspection? AD/SB check (don't know of any, but you should check) Blue Skies, JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Thanks. My DZ has a rigger who will check over gear for me - I asked about that. He's a classic grumpy old bastard, though, so I haven't really had a good chat to him about finding me a rig and so on. I'd trust him to check my kit, though, for sure. New isn't really an option for me - simply too expensive and I will be relying on getting a reasonable resale value for what I buy, one day. I've got no business skydiving at all on my current salary, to be honest! Something second hand and just-about-jumpable is fine for me at the moment. Understand. I was putting myself through school when I started and collecting my room mate's beer cans to sell to the recycler for jump money. There is a lot of good used gear, and my first rigger was the grumpy old cuss... he'll help you get a good one. Just remember that while fine to keep costs down, don't sell your life short. Blue skies, happy shopping. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

As it looks like you're relatively new to the sport and its gear, I would NOT recommend buying something unseen/untested. Further, I would start by getting yourself a rigger (yes, before you even have a rig). You want someone who knows the gear to be on your side. (S)he can help you find the right gear, quickly evaluate brands/designs/sizes for appropriateness for your loading/skills/plans. I would also insist that any sale be dependent upon a favorable inspection/condition report from your rigger. This will cost you up front, but pay off in two ways... First, if that's not acceptable to the seller then you likely didn't want their rig anyway (since its at your expense, what don't they want your rigger to find??) Second, you'll know that your rig is in good shape and that your rigger is comfortable working on it. I've been bought junk and by the time I finished discussing what I was seeing, my customer's were thanking me for keeping them safe. For me when I was at your level was to buy new. Square reserves were rare in used rigs and the Cypres had just come on the market, so what I wanted wasn't on the used market. On the positive side, while I spent more, I knew the complete history of the gear, I got exactly what I wanted and fit me correctly. Just my $.02 JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

You have got to be kidding. Just think what you will be able to appreciate a 50 jumps. Sparky I can see that it is poorly worded but I read it differently to you. How I understood it "I have begun to appreciate that there is a great breadth to a canopy's performance envelop, that few master or explore" I don't see a problem with that as a statement. It's not saying that HE has the skills to explore the envelop. Agreed... I think the OP saying "I appreciate" is different than "I have mastered" However, I will also say that it is also true that he will appreciate even more the breadth with more jumps... The first, best thing the OP has done it to recognize that there is much to see, learn, experience... and he's right, many don't even look. Learn much and have fun with it!! JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

For myself, I had ~500 jumps before getting a second canopy (actually, it was larger than the first... working on traditional accuracy). It was ~800 jumps and 10 years before I down sized. But then I'm a chicken-shit skydiver who like jumping/flying but hates pain. Just my $.02 JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Owww... but you might have gotten off easy... buddy of mine jumped with a guy that did that while wearing his ring... left the ring, finger and all controlling tendons with the plane. Convinced me to leave the ring on the ground and watch my hands as well as my handles. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

And exactly how do you check the routing of your reserve closing loop through the cutter now? There are a couple rigs where you can see the closing loop going through (or not) the cutter. (Racer and Reflex, maybe others...) I do not propose that this is intentional in their design, but a convenient side benefit. But it is true that for most rigs, you have to trust you rigger with regard to how he puts stuff in there... But isn't that what you do with the whole reserve inspection/repack? You trust his seal/signature/word that it is done correctly. If you want to see what he does, ask to (quietly) watch. Then you will know more and be able to see the loop going through the cutter for yourself. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Its OK though... he's carrying a camera, so if (when?) he biffs, there'll be a good video of his awsome setup... JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

When I bought my first rig, my instructor told me I'd be board with the canopy (a PD-260/F-111), and that I should get smaller one. He was right, only a short 10 years later, I was board with it and down sized. I now (22 years in) fly a radical Spectre 210 (or my almost as small Spectre 230). They have plenty of flight envelope to keep me entertained and yet provide a comfortable safety margin when the spot/winds/etc aren't quite what I thought/wanted. We're F'ing skydivers... don't need to prove anything to anyone. Its like alcohol... if you don't push the limits and abuse it, you can enjoy it for many years to come. Abuse it and either it will kill you or you'll eventually have to give it up. Keep learning! JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

In the midst of all the various arguments, a great question! Based on your question and profile, I will assume you are not dealing with 540-turns-to-final on a 76sqr-foot canopy… The biggest difference is going to be the pull-distance for any given response. The range of acceptable distance you can fly/control the canopy with the toggles is a very wide range. The difference between left and right toggle that will cause bad behavior is also (relatively) wide. On rear risers in the range where slower flight/stall occur, the difference between control and stall is much smaller and the tolerance for left/right differential is much less. The risers will stall much more dynamically with less distance between flights, mush, stall and collapse. (I find there is little “mush” compared to using my brakes to stall.) Likewise the recovery is going to be more dynamic. Dropping the risers in a full stall is going to be similar to dropping the toggles from a full stall. Remember we don’t recommend that when recovering from a brake stall? Too much surge, too much swing and chance for uneven repressurization of the canopy. It is important that you keep things level during the stall/recovery as well. This can be done easily with those risers in your hands, but you need to stay on the controls the whole time… don’t just let it go. Again, gentle recovery, but the distance to relax is much less than with brakes and when the canopy is ½ recovered it will want to GO… remember that in this case you don’t have the tail pulled down to slow its forward speed when the wing gets back to a correct (forward) angle of attack. Concerns when doing a full stall (either method): CLEAR YOUR AIRSPACE – be high and make sure no one else is around, especially UNDER Recovery from a full stall (especially when done too quickly) can result in the PC being in front of the canopy, possibly around the A/B lines. Uneven recovery can cause one side to surge and start a spin. This can lead to, uncommanded change of heading or line twists. If the line twists catch one or more lines asymmetrically, this can turn into an unrecoverable spin. As the results going into/out of a stall with risers is quicker and more dynamic, there is less tolerance of being uneven or turbulent air. This increases the chance of bad things happening. All that having been said, I personally feel that one should experiment (high, in clear air) with all flight modes of their canopy, whether or not they ever want to down-size*. Knowing how your canopy responds in all situations might just save you from a bad situation, spot or unnecessary cut-away.** *agree with the notion that 99% of the time there is no reason to downsize. **on the other hand, we just discussed that even practicing these things _can_ lead to the need to cut-away… so, consider that too… Talk more with a canopy coach… not one that pushes what you need to do for downsizing, but what you need to do to learn about the gear you are currently flying. Just my $.02 JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Yes. ~Jump #17, as trained, after brake line broke, performed control and flare checks at alt, chose to keep it. Only comment from the instructors was that I should have PLF'ed, though the stand-up was soft. Soooo.... when jump #18 broke the OTHER brake line on the same student rig (rigger only changed the one), I forced myself to PLF... almost failed it and stood up anyway as the flare was so smooth. NOTE: This was on a lightly loaded Strong? Goliath. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

The poster has a solid track record of being a troll.... So while he might not be acting that way right here, right now.... But your track record has a way of following you. So when he acts like a troll 99% of the time and then tries to be serious, well, you can expect that some people are just not going to believe him. Understood, and if my Rant was out of line or anyone took offence then... my bad. However as there are other newbie's here as well, and they don't know his track record, I hope that they can see the legtimate question and get a good answer. Just my $.02 Feel free to PM me with any offline thoughts. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Agreed. If flying a controlable/landable canopy that is likely to stay that way, keep it. Reserves can fail. But how do you know if its landable? That's what practice (up high, before you need to know) is about. I don't agree with all BG preaches, but he is 100% on this one... you should strive to know EVERTHING you canopy can do... if you don't (yet) then you got more learning to do. Never know when you'll need to know how to get just that little bit extra from your canopy. I agree with keeping up on maintanence, but are you ready when something fails anyway?? JW PS - landed large/student canopy on rears twice when the steering lines broke... but because it was part of my DZ's taught process for learning new canopies, I already had tried it on prior jumps. Scared, yes, but did what I practiced and it worked great. PPS - and yes, I have heard of injuries (fatal?) from broken/untied/etc steering toggles down low. PPPS - what ever happened to "if you can't say something nice, STFU"?? Yes, this newbie should ask his local instructors and take advice here with a large grain of salt. And the newbie that shows up next month may ask the same question again. Please either patiently direct/advise/recommend again, or STFU. rec.skydiving lost all its good/useful purpose when it became a small group of know-it-alls that just wanted to slam everyone else, or rehash all the old arguments with personal insults and snide comments. You may have been here for years (so have I) but there will always be newbies, and they are the future experts, so stop chasing them off. /rant Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Recollection is that Ted Strong designed a student program build on instruction jumps on a tandem progressing to such a drougue equiped solo system. He seemed to believe that tandem should be instructive, not just for rides and that this progression would work well for DZ's that had limited staff. Don't know if his had an AAD on the main, but definately on the reserve. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Of course that protects just the fixed side. The side that threads through the buckle can't benefit from that fix. On the other hand, rigs nowadays used doubled-up chest strap webbing much more than they used to, when a single type 8 strap was more common. Some do, some don't... JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...