wolfriverjoe

Read the waiver when you sign it. Ours says students are responsible for any damage beyond normal wear and tear. It hasn't always been enforced, and for legitimate student cutaways I have know of lost handles or freebags let slide (last thing you want a student doing is riding a bad canopy into the ground worried about losing stuff and how much its gonna cost) but I heard a story from before my time about a S/L student who was sure that the canopy wouldn't open and chopped almost immediately from a good, open canopy. She was made to pay for the lost freebag and reserve repack. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Georger- The "knapsack" was really the money bag, tied shut with one piece of paracord cut from the good reserve; with a handle/shoulder strap made from the other piece (2 approx 15' lengths cut from good reserve). This was discussed at some length quite a while ago. Look in posts 260-290 or so of this thread and about 715 or so in the first Cooper thread (post 20 on this thread has a link to the 1st thread, and there is a link to 719/1st thread in about 285 or so) Lots of good info about the bag, how Cooper tied it off, all that. Tina had a pretty good view, and gave good descriptions. Don't you guys remember each and every word in all 6000 posts?? Me either. 377 and Jo- Don't you know what's going on?? The 37th anniversary is coming up and someone posting here has figured out how Cooper did it, and is planning a repeat. Ckret found out about the plan from library withdrawls and telephone monitoring. He will be on the plane to foil the plot. Even though the original Cooper will never be caught, Ckret will be a hero for catching the copycat. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Not a huge difference. Noticable, and I was paying close attention. I'm not an instructor, but IMO most reasonably intelligent people could probably land a canopy 2 or 3 (or more) sizes too small under good conditions. That's the killer. I can land my Triathalon downwind (not too fast), crosswind, braked, with gentle braked turns during flare, off field, and in a variety of other unusual situatons. I think I could safely land a 150 or maybe even a 135 under normal circumstances, but not necessarily otherwise. If (when) something went wrong, how wrong would it go? I'm not willing to find out, so I'll keep jumping my Tri for a while yet. Others can and will do what they want, these are just my opinions "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Just a suggestion, but use the "preview post" to see how it's going to look before you post it. I find it gives me a chance to change anything stupid before I post it. At least I like to think so. Also, you still haven't answered what your DZ homework was. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

43. Act younger, feel older. Funny how that works. (Edit to add)- size 9 1/2 "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Dude, that is sooo wrong. (I can't find the "puking" face). I read a few pages. Is it real or a troll? Real=wrong Troll=not right, but funny as all hell "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

How about 1.0:1 vs 1.1 (1.105 by my calculator)? Some of the difference is in the canopies -190 Triathalon and 170 Sabre2. There isn't a whole lot of difference, but I can feel a definite difference. Faster-both forward speed and descent. Quicker on turns-toggle and front riser. Somewhat faster going into the flare. I'm fairly conservative (IOW chicken), so I was careful and paying close attention to what I was doing and what was going on. So I was more aware of the difference, and it wasn't dramatic. But it was there. Just my point of view, but you asked. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

NOTE-Before you flame me, I jump a 190 loaded at 1:1 (almost exactly-193# with all my gear on my bathroom scale) I have jumped a 170 sabre2 a few times, but am happy with my triathalon and plan on keeping it for a while. Here in the US we seem to be rather conservative with downsizing. After what was going on a few years ago when I first started, I can understand. Way too many people were jumping gear they had no business using and paying the price. In response, the pendulum swung the other way (as it tends to do under any circumstances) and even responsible downsizing can be criticized. The way the OP worded the "I've completed Bill's 'Downsize Checklist' now what?" thread is a good example. I'm not advocating rapid downsizing, just pointing out that the US is more conservative than other places and my take on why it is so. IMO the biggest problem isn't the actual downsizing, its the mindset and attitude of those who want to downsize too fast. They have "Madskilz" or "big canopies are too slow" or whatever. These people will find a way to get hurt or killed no matter what size canopy they are flying because they either overestimate their ability, underestimate the danger, or somehow don't believe it could happen to them. Near misses don't seem to scare or teach them anything. I don't know what (if anything) can be done about it, other than keeping myself safer by not jumping with idiots "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

I had an FXC in my early student rigs. We set them at 1250-1500 ft. We were told that they had a +/- of 500ft. I can't say this is correct, just what I was told as a student. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

take a short delay and jump without a slider Yeah, but in a building tall enough to have that level of security that would mean WAY too much canopy time, wouldn't it? Treejumps- Thanks for the real answer. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

This is a good point. Yes, the pilot is responsible (105.43). Isn't that why DZs do gear checks? And aren't Cypress battery/4yr check dates on the reserve repack card? Mine are. DZs will just have to be careful to make sure that ALL parts of the gear are in date. I would hope for their sake that they do that already, not just look at the last repack date. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Ahh. The state of the educational system here in the US. Gives me such hope for the future. Your instructor did not give you homework because: USPA requires a set amount of homework per class You will be taking a standardized test that determines how much funding the DZ gets. What was the homework? I'm guessing reading the SIM. You have to realize that doing poorly in this sport doesn't mean bad grades, being cut from cheerleading or being held back a grade (although you may have to repeat a jump or two). A serious enough mistake can have very major consequences. Knowledge and understanding are very important. You seem to be looking for the "right" questions. As someone else said, do the homework. There will more than likely be parts you won't understand. Those are the questions you need to ask. 2 examples: #1-Many students want to go through clouds (freefall or under canopy). There are rules for proper cloud clearances and reasons for the rules. Do you know the rules? (in the SIM) And more importantly- Do you understand WHY those rules are in place. #2-From your and your dad's posts, you are learning to pack. Do you know that the slider has to be ALL the way up when you pack? Again, more important-Do you know WHY. Do you understand the purpose and function of the slider (to take it way farther, different sizes, domed and pocket equipped sliders-why?). These are examples of the kind of questions you should ask. If you don't know what to do in a situation, ask. If you don't know WHY something is done in a specific manner, ask. If no one else said it, the only stupid question is the one you don't ask. (although yours is kind of foolish

Actually my Mister Smartypants comment wasnt a joke, nor was it being mean, have ya ever had a conversation with him? The dude is smart as can be. What do you mean I'm smart?... …what do you mean, you mean the way I talk? What? ... …Smart how? What's smart about me?.... …You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little messed up maybe, but I'm Smart how, I mean smart like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to amuse you? What do you mean smart, smart how? How am I smart?... ……you said it. You said I'm smart. How the %^$# am I smart, what the ^%$# is so smart about me? Tell me, tell me what's so smart! I already knew you were smart. But, you are also a funny guy. You are funny. You know, the way you tell a story. Its funny. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

If you pull a ripcord on a springloaded pilotchute equipped rig while on your back, you may well watch the pilotchute and D-bag come out between your legs. You have just enough time to say "oh shit" and the opening canopy pulls you through 3/4 of a backflip. Your momentum continues the flip around one more time. You now have a flip-through. On a 288 manta student canopy, you can still release the brakes and have full control even though the lines have one full twist in them. Near whiplash in the neck is very painful. Getting your ass chewed off by your instructor is very embarrassing. I am living proof that it is possible. Try it if you want, but trust me, it isn't real fun. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Serious Question- Does anyone know how much difference there would be between the NB6 Cooper used and an Airforce AF-28 with a 28ft C-9 (DOM 1952)? PM me if you want the reason or if you don't want to waste bandwidth posting the answer. Jo- The training dummy reserve (according to the Parachutist article that I still can't find) was a container (bag) that closed normally along with a canopy that had several panels cut out and then resewn (think of an umbrella with several sections removed). The lines were still there. The old reserves had to be scopped out of the bag and thrown upward to deploy. Training back then included practicing this on the ground. Cossey set up the training dummy so that he could quickly fold up and stuff the canopy into the container to reduce the waiting time between students. Packing full size canopies takes careful folding and quite a lot of "stuffing" effort. Ckret- Ok, I'll have to agree that he didn't create extra bags from the dummy reserve. Snowmmans thoughts about hooking it onto the NB6 got me thinking. My biggest reason for trying to "make it fit" was the fact that none of that stuff has ever been found. Yes, I knew as I was writing it that "come on people, can't we all get along" was futile, but the bickering annoys me. Especially when the trigger is a misunderstood joke (you and LisaMarie was; Mr smartypants FBI agent and Delusional skydivers both weren't). If you want a great example of this, go on the general skydiving forum and read the 100th jump thread. Yes, you and everyone else is a human being, but sometimes too many people take this crap way too seriously. Oh well, I just need to practice my patience and acceptance. Snowmman- Look closer at the pictures. When I jump naked, I don't want to be stuffed into a Cessna 182 for 45 minutes with 4 3 other naked guys(4 total). We wear panties on the plane because they can be torn off right before jumping without screwing around with the harnesses. Duh! And never go head-down naked. Things flap in the high-speed relative wind and it hurts. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

#1 Because the people doing those stunts are usually friends and assume they won't sue each other #2 Because they haven't been sued before and aren't lawyers. (Ask Bill Booth how many times he's been sued) Normiss has a good point too. This stunt is kinda like having a full grown tiger curl up on your lap. Those who think it would be "cool", "fun" and "exciting" have no clue about the danger. Those who have the training and experience also have the understanding of how stupid and dangerous it is. And the only ones who do it regularly are highly paid performers/entertainers. And even they have bad days. (Remember Sigfried and Roy?) "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Non-counductive. Isn't carbon conductive?? Junior high physics was a long time ago. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Here in the US, any lawyer can file a lawsuit for any reason. That suit has to be defended unless you want a default judgement. (kinda like forfeiting a ball game). Even with the multi-page liabilty waivers that are mandatory, suits still are filed, and sometimes the DZ/gear mfg loses. People have sued motorcycle mfgs for what was clearly stupidity on the part of the operator. And won. Ever notice that there aren't any more 3-wheel ATVs anymore? Even though they are more capable and manuverable? Part of living and doing business in the US. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

I would think ceramics and carbon would be too brittle (Although I could be wrong). There are high temp plastics out there. I've got a plastic ashtray that doesn't melt even when the coal of the cigarette is directly on it. Feel free to call it stupid, but cutting circles out of that would seem to be an idea. OK, now that I've given a (mostly)serious answer, a serious question-WHY?? The smuggling idea is pure hollywood crap. Short of trying to sneak a rig through a metal detector (and I think the security people would notice the big lump on your back), I can't figure out a reason and curiosity is driving me nuts. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Standard disclaimer: Not an instructor. Just MY opinion. Civilian training has to be "nice". Hardcore, "drill instructor" style instruction would just drive away students. Different FJCs use different styles: book, video, lecture. Most students wouldn't sit through 35 hours of ground instruction. Its hard enough making them sit through 4 or 5. You went out solo after your instruction, AFF has 2 jumpers handing on to the student. I won't say it makes less instruction "necessary", but it does provide more of a margin for student error. Watch some of the videos linked in the other threads for some really scary examples. Last concern: As long as its after (and people don't get behind the wheel) I don't see it as a problem. During jumping (and yes, it does happen) is a totally different matter. But after is "part of the culture" and can be very educational. I learned more around the bonfire than I ever did in the classroom. BTW: I don't drink at all "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Did Cooper keep the bad, or did he part it out too?? Everyone locks on to the 30' or so of paracord that was cut from the usable reserve, and forgets all the cord and canopy material from the training dummy? According to Sluggo's timetable he had over 30 minutes from the time Tina went forward until the estimated jump time. I could rig up some pretty secure "transport containers" and attach them well enough (or at least think so) in that time. Would Tina have still been in back with him at takeoff if the stairs were down?? Or would he have sent her forward so his departure would not be known. The facts seem to indicate he planned on jumping very soon after takeoff. Familiarity with Seattle/Tacoma strengthens that assumption. That makes the nb6 a better choice, for reasons I already stated. Would he then have taken the briefcase and overcoat with him? That may not have been his original plan, but once he started to improvise, anything could happen. I fully agree that Cooper was a novice. Some skydiving experience seems necessary. A total whuffo may come up with the plan, but I'd put good money that he would still have been on the back stairs at Reno. "Watch that first step-its a doozy" takes on a whole new meaning at 10 grand. And at night. There are anecdotal reports of pilots/crew riding a doomed plane into the ground becase they couldn't jump, even facing certain death. McCoy brought his own gear. Maybe Cooper didn't have any. Most students don't until after they get their license. Jumping at night gets points for planning (easier to hide), but tells me less experience. (perspective and obstacle avoidance have been brought up). I have been trying to address these issues as I would plan this, trying to remember how little I knew early on. There are a bunch of threads where new jumpers clearly display how much they think they know, and how little they actually know. Makes it easier to see how Cooper could have planned this. That doesn't address the question of how desperate or "hardcore" he was. How willing was he to die in order to not get caught? Was his actual jump spot based on trying to be close to Portland/Vancouver, or was it a case of finally building up enough nerve to say "fuck it" and go? Ckret can answer how many bad guys swear up and down that they won't be taken alive, and how many of those actually shoot it out in the end. But on the flip side of that, there is a saying among soliders that while proffesionals are more skilled and trained, they are predictable. Amateurs are more dangerous because they aren't trained and can do the damndest thing at any time. So, was he desperate? Or just stupid? Last point and I'm done-I'm here for curiosity and entertainment. I try not to take any of the personal stuff too seriously. I'll give the benefit of the doubt that most are meant as lighthearted jokes. I don't particularly enjoy pointless bickering. When someone behaves that way, I tend to ignore their posts. So I would like to respectfully request that we all be nice to each other. I don't want Quade to have to jump in and put anybody in "timeout" again. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

I've been reading this for a while and keeping my mouth (keyboard) shut until now. Note my experience. I guess it depends on how you define "ok". Is it ok to die for this stunt? Is it ok for others to die for this stunt? I fully understand and accept the risks in this sport. That doesn't mean I'm going to take unnecessary or stupid or avoidable chances. Like Normiss, I want to come back tomorrow and jump again. The only way I can see this stunt being ok is if all the jumpers are highly experienced. The only reason I can see would be for a movie stunt. (And big$$). And even then it would be very carefully choreographed, and rehearsed, and broken down into manageable segments. Like the "Get Smart" jump. Sangi, do you even understand the risks in this "trick"? The possibilities for accidental deployment, entanglement, collisions? And mostly, the chance that anything going wrong will probably become a catastrophic disaster ending in multiple fatalities? I'm trying not to slam you too hard, but the lack of understanding you show is frightening. As was said earlier, wanting to do exciting things is not a bad thing, but doing them without understanding the risks is extremely dangerous. Both to you and those around you. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

I don't see any misunderstanding. I think nobody recognized the modification because its an old, old rig used for emergencies, not sport jumping. Same answer when nobody answers about making an right-hand outboard pull on one. I've only heard one story about a bailout rig being used and I'm not sure if its true or not-see my post from earlier today. Chest strap isn't load bearing. All it does is keep shoulder straps from slipping out and off. Tight is not necessary. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Ckret- Yes, if the FBI gave him the gear, they knew exactly what he had. BUT- If found after the jump, there wouldn't be anything about it to tell you who Cooper was. That was my "untraceable" point. My personal gear has my name and address on it. I'm not going to commit any crimes using something that can be traced back to me that easily. I agree that he was probably a novice at best. "Knew just enough to be dangerous" has been said more than once. And the number of whuffos who think all they have to do is jump and pull the cord? HA. The standard answer "its not as easy as it looks, try a tandem and see" usually shuts them up one way or another. If the FBI put tracers in the gear, why wasn't it found Or is it a case of "that was then, this is now"? BTW-you have the wrong wolfriverjoe. Its a pretty common name. I returned "The Virginian" to the library well ahead of time. I had misread the title. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Thanks. I looked in "licences" and the glossary, but didn't check BSRs "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo