snowmman

has been [was?] president of the Special Operations Association for fifteen years. That organization is here http://www.specialoperations.org/contents.html A picture of Jim is attached from 2008. I have a phone number for Jim, I'll forward to Bruce. Bruce: the guy deserves a lot of respect. You should mention you've talked with Waugh and Plaster.

from "Running Recon: A Photo Journey with SOG Special Ops Along the Ho Chi Minh Trail" by Frank Greco, 2004 page 156 available here: http://www.amazon.com/Running-Recon-Photo-Journey-Special/dp/1581604262#reader I was able to locate some of the early team members of ST [ed. Spike Team] Colorado, the earliest one being Sgt. Jim Hetrick, who was on the team in early 1966. He and S.Sgt. Ted Braden had come from Kham Duc to Kontum, where they were joined by S.Sgt. J.D. Bath [Ed. Plaster already connects Braden, Hetrick and Bath, also] They traveled around to the local villages of the various Montagnard tribes looking for recruits to start the team with. They had decided form the team from different tribes so that tribal pride or rivalry would prevent the recruits from running away. This theory actually worked out for them; J.D. Bath remembers at least one firefight with the enemy where the 'Yards were duck-walking from cover to cover, firing back at the enemy, as they yelled at their teammates: "You run, Jarai - I stay and fight," or "You run, Bahnar - I stay and fight." It should be noted that other team leaders preferred to have their indigeneous members all from the same village to avoid tribal friction that could interfere with the team's functioning. Soon joining the team after it was reformed were Sgts. Jerry Lee and William Grimes... ... By late 1966 the team was led by One-Zero Lt. George Sisler, along with Sergeants Bath and Lee. In January 1967 they opened up the radio relay site atop a mountain peak in southern Laos (eventually known as Leghorn). The next team members I located were from the fall of 1967. At this time the Americans on the team were S. Sgts. Paul Douglas (the One-Zero), Fred Crane (the One-One), and Mel Trafford (the One-Two). .. From late 1967 I was unable to trace RT Colorado until March 1969...

Jerry: I was just joking. Hey found another book. Author was in RT Colorado, but after Braden (it was 1969) Braden is mentioned on page 156 along with some other names from Braden's time in RT Colorado. I'll post that. Jim Hetrick knew Braden. So maybe we can find Jim Hetrick too? "Running Recon: A Photo Journey with SOG Special Ops Along the Ho Chi Minh Trail" # Hardcover: 458 pages # Publisher: Paladin Press; illustrated edition edition (January 2004) # ISBN-10: 1581604262 # ISBN-13: 978-1581604269 A combination memoir and combat photography book, Running Recon reflects both the author's experiences in the top-secret Studies and Observation Group (SOG) from April 1969 to April 1970, and the collective experiences of SOG veterans in general. What sets it apart from other Vietnam books is its wealth of more than 700 photographs, many never before published, from the author's personal collection and those of his fellow SOG veterans. Frank Greco served in SOG from 1969–1970 in Command and Control Central as part of Recon Team Colorado.

hmm..you're dulling my fantasy image involving the stiletto heels. I'll stick with mine.

Yeah, not the same guy. too old. The key thing about the chain of knowledge about Braden Duncan says Braden was at Leaping Lena. The Der Spiegel article is from Braden, and the time frame is about right to say he's the Braden at Leaping Lena. He quotes a high number of free fall jumps for a military guy at that time period. Says he's very experienced, to me. So that aligns with him competing then. Also he said he had 14 years military experience. So that aligns. The age (which we don't know yet) roughly aligns with the Ted B. Braden we know exists that was born in 1928. So that's where we are. There's only one Ted B. Braden I can find that's roughly of the right age ((edit) and I guess still alive)..This one would have been 43 on 11/24/71 (edit) Most of the references I see have him as Sgt. He must have had some time below Sgt. Don't know what he was when he deserted.

And I've posted about a jump demonstration where the jumper drowned in the Columbia. Further east. I believe in later '70s. single events don't prove anything. (edit) I've also posted about suicide jumpers into the Columbia. And that guy who crashed his plane. The places their bodies were or weren't found, disagrees with the Jerry Dogma.

I posted that already. It was the Flight International article. I already said he was competing and traveling in Europe. Hmm. you guys really do only read some of what I post. I'm shattered. absolutely shattered. :) (edit) my post was here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3639145;search_string=scottish;#3639145 (edit) all the info aligns with the trail to Leaping Lena, and SF and Africa. So I'm assuming it's the same guy. Remember the article for Ramparts talks about his long jumping experience. (high number of claimed freefall).. I guess it's possible there are two Ted Bradens then. But I'm assuming it's all the same guy, since it seems to align.

That's the 49 year old guy in Ohio. yeah, it makes no sense to be bothering those folks. They have no connection to Ted B. Braden. (edit) P.S. There are boatloads of Bradens in the country, so we can't just take potshots.

You can see Duncan (recent) in this new documentary short trailer here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jULC3SCX9wE (edit) 12 minute trailer here: (worth watching! if you got interested in the first clip!) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDk6Qal2DCI "Obedience to the law is freedom" (sign on US Army stockade, shown in the documentary) regardless of one's opinion, it does help in reminding one of the context back then. (sure it's biased...but I think I explore all edges of opinion) The documentary has a website here http://www.sirnosir.com Bertolt Brecht poem: "From A German War Primer" http://www.poetryconnection.net/poets/Bertolt_Brecht/5609 "General, your tank is a powerful vehicle It smashes down forests and crushes a hundred men. But it has one defect: It needs a driver. General, your bomber is powerful. It flies faster than a storm and carries more than an elephant. But it has one defect: It needs a mechanic. General, man is very useful. He can fly and he can kill. But he has one defect: He can think."

This was posted recently at commondreams.org, in response to an article. This guy is a vet. Note that John Prados was also the author of "The Blood Road" which I referenced before. "At the time that I was there I was not even aware that there was such a thing as the GI movement that was taking place during that time period. But those in the military today have no such excuse since they should be well aware ot the GI rebellion that took place during my and your era, i.e. the Vietnam conflict. They have available to them the powerful documentary Sir! No Sir! As former Green Beret Donald Duncan states in the film: "I was doing it right but I wasn't doing right." Duncan also wrote an article in Ramparts magazine in the 1960s entitled "It was all a lie!" as well as many books which describe the movement such as David Cortright's classic work "Soldiers in Revolt: GI Resistance During the Vietnam War" as well as "Joe Allen's Vietnam: The [Last] War the U.S. Lost". John Prados's latest work and perhaps his magnum opus "Vietnam: The History of an Unwinnable War-1945-1975" also is sprinkled with details concerning those in the military who protested the actions of their imperial government. A more current book that soldiers can draw inspiration from is Peter Laufer's fine and moving work "Mission Rejected: U.S. Soldiers Who Say NO to Iraq". As Mathias Chiroux observes, that title can also include people like Chiroux who recognize that Obama's so-called good war is anything but good as evidenced by the U.S. air force bombing innocent Afghan civilians. It should also be noted that the Pakistanis are also feeling the brunt of Obama's militarism as drone missiles are raining down upon them by those compliant members of the United States military. U.S. soldiers-say NO to the American empire."

I'm not sure where these are from or when, but they're in the same vein as the article he wrote in the '60s. some more thoughts from him, so thought worth posting for context. I find it fascinating that he worked with Braden in the Leaping Lena program. DONALD DUNCAN "Heading up operations of a new, very hush-hush project called Delta -- a name that lives to this day -- I had to pour over MACV intelligence reports almost daily; both those based on information collected by us and those based on two other similar operations. I was absolutely astounded. It was bullshit. Pure fabrication. Routine fabrication. An example? OK. I think a "typical" mission into Tay Ninh province to check out reported VC movement in and around a Michelin rubber plantation makes the point. We went in at night and reached the plantation perimeter mid-morning where we found well-prepared trenchworks, complete with mortars, machine guns, ammo -- but no people! Feeling as naked as jaybirds, we stood up, took deep breaths, deployed across the opening, stepped across the trenches and proceeded through the rubber trees toward the center of the plantation. Just short of the center we were stopped by the sound of voices. Sgt. Minh and I crept forward and involuntarily stepped back in shock. There was at least a battalion of VC grouped around three individuals, one of whom was talking loudly -- a troop "education/orientation" session (we called it TI&E). I radioed to have our VN Airborne troops drop in at three designated sites outside the perimeter, then sat back and waited. The next goddamn thing we knew the whole world exploded on us, and for 12 straight hours the area was under constant air bombardment -- with us there! What went wrong? Where were the troops? We had Viet Cong running blindly past us, over us and/or trying to bury themselves next to us in the dark. Miraculously we survived to get to an LZ the next day and as miraculously our VN chopper again got us out amidst .50 caliber fire; we were back at Ton Son Nut. There we were handed a report -- already released to the press -- telling how many KIAs there were (in the hundreds). I challenged the report inasmuch as we were the only people on the ground and we didn't have a clue how many had been killed. We were too busy scrambling to get our asses to a pick-up point, and there were too many live bodies in the area to be walking around counting dead ones. What I got in response was a bunch of prop-wash about grids and tons of bombs per grid factored by numbers of people in each grid equals x-number of KIAs. When I pointed out that ten of us moved from one grid to another and were not killed, it was ignored -- and no apology for overriding our orders, for not informing us or for "dropping," knowing we were in one of those grids. From that day I grabbed and analyzed every report I could get my hands on having anything to do with intelligence and policy. It was obvious we had no policy and intelligence was whatever MACV said it was. We had reports of "... and four VC water buffalo killed," and marines shooting at "VC sounds" and reporting KIA. Instead of cleaning up corruption in the country, we became the biggest contributors to it. We supported the worst elements in the country. We had nothing to win. The whole thing was a lie. I signed on for a second hitch in Vietnam, but I couldn't bring the same enthusiasm to it. Oh, I was being offered things -- a direct commission to captain, a Silver Star and Legion of Merit ... All heady stuff for a career soldier. But the idealism and purpose of my being a "Green Beret" and being in Vietnam was confuted at every turn. The administration and the Generals were deceiving the American people and betraying its troops. After 10 1/2 years in the U.S. Army, in the summer of '65, I quietly put in my papers for discharge. Once back in the land of the Big PX I was determined to get out the word."

okay, just got out of a standup JCS meeting, and they ok'ed the upload. Too hard to deal with editting .flv files to improve the washed out old film sequences, but I thought the vid was interesting. I suspect you jumpers might like some of the old sequences. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhjY5OmGPAU there's a quick clip of 377 in the tunnel at Fort Bragg at 3:48. He's the one that's messing up. :)

I've been looking thru records and stuff. And it just sunk in, after looking at them, that if this Ted B. Braden is the same guy we're talking about, the guy who Duncan thought was an early pioneer in Army HALO (remember Braden did do competitions..this was early relative to when Golden Knights was still coming together..they were '59 or '61 depending on what you use)... well if this guy is that Ted B. Braden, he may need a helping hand from another SF vet, rather than hassles from us. Reminds me, I downloaded a copy of the 50 year anniversary vid the Golden Knights did..has some historical footage that is interesting. The color is washed out. and the army site only has a small viewer. I think I'm going to fix it up and put it on youtube so you can see it better. Nice historical context. Funny: it's army, and they've got some 60's tunes as background..

In today's skydiving scene, I think if you modelled it, the most likely thing to hit is another skydiver. Because of the way loads are done, and a common endpoint (DZ). (edit) Kind of like how most car accidents, you hit another car? Actually I don't know if that's true. Be interesting to check. (edit) To make reparations for that long-ago class, we start with Kant: "Even philosophers will praise war as ennobling mankind, forgetting the Greek who said: 'War is bad in that it begets more evil than it kills.'" and "“Happiness is not an ideal of reason but of imagination”

good numbers georger. I did a rough calc a while ago, where I assumed Cooper could spot the lights of vancouver, and react within a certain amount of time. I think that would make it easier to hit the columbia, (which would have been an undesired goal) but your premises all seem sound. I don't know if Jerry would disagree. Jerry does want Cooper in the water. Why not the Columbia? Jerry?

was looking at this 1962 photo again. The guy in the foreground left. What kind of shoes do you think he's wearing? It's an interesting thing to think about: how one perceives shoes.

I was looking at the distribution of ages in a small town of ~1000 people. It's interesting, cause once you look at it, you realize there ain't that many people that are male, 80+. The flat distribution falls off quickly at 73 here, ends at 87 or so. For instance, 17-18 80+ males in the attached distribution of 1000 residents. This town may skew younger than some towns. not sure.

did a little more work on this. I think I have a better fix on this Ted. B. Braden I mentioned. I think he might be married with a wife 2 years younger. small town ~1000 people. overhead shot of the town attached. I'm not sure if this is gentlemanly, but it's reasonably obscure. I suspect Billy W. probably got a good chuckle at our flailing about, and passed it off as "no harm done". Thanks Billy, and thanks for moving us along. Ted B. will probably laugh us off too. So we know he wasn't on the FBI list. I wonder if the FBI is actively looking? 377: Should I leave the drone flying or call it back? (this really is an overhead shot of the town I'm wondering about currently..and note it's not a cheap Google Earth overhead :)

Too bad Jerry got taken out. Collateral damage I guess. First Ckret goes down, apparently jumping out a window. Tom went AWOL. Now Jerry. Next time the lights go out, and we get them back on, and someone else is missing, I'm going to start freaking a little.

Jo said "3 men in front of a prison dressed in parachutes. " Why would 3 guys be standing in front of a prison wearing parachutes? You wear parachutes near where you going to jump, not where you live. I posted an article about that guy on furlough who returned by parachuting into the prison. That was funny. (edit) Jo: remind me: why do we give a rat's ass about the FBI here? If I remember right, all they are is a bunch of guys who can bring charges against people for random reasons. Why would that help us? Shouldn't we be brainstorming about how to get people that would be useful on the forum? Like fan belt inspectors?

2004 I see. Yeah it's a competitive market. 377: we may need to expand the air force. Not because of South Africa defenses, but because we may need to fight off competing invaders. Hey I read in Plaster's book how they saw 2 soviet helicopters under camo, belonging to NVA on one insertion. People didn't believe them, saying NVA didn't have helis. Other disbelief was when they reported elephants being used. Didn't believe until one RT leader brought back elephant dung in a plastic bag. Now, it's crazy to think that multiple parties may be planning simultaneous invasions of South Africa, quibbling over details like coffee. After all, this is 2004....I mean 2009.

377 asked "What is your recollection about the rubber bands Snow? I think their condition might rule out a lot of theories and time lines about the money arrival at T Bar. " I ignore the rubber bands. That information is too weak. There's no data other than testimony, from people we've never seen. If we want to use rubber band testimony, we need the parent's testimony about the whole path of the money, all the way to the kitchen, and then to the FBI. Like how long it took to dry, etc. The rubber band data is weaker than our knowledge of shoe testimony. So I ignore it. I do look at the nice high res photos of the bills a lot. and the photos from 1980 (vid snaps) and the snaps from the various books showing the bills from 1980.

It was a vacuum cleaner. What are vacuum cleaners used for? Evidence removal, of course. :) I still have the medallion from that old Datsun. It was a classic. My first car. A friend mounted it on a little piece of wood and gave it to me. I did have an early radar detector in that car. Speeding tickets led to many problems.

I won't accept the excuse that you're on another continent with limited download bandwidth, as an excuse for handing the final in late. You admitted there is good coffee. So no excuses. Yeah Meadows is amazing. Quite respected by his peers. I skimmed that paper, but I think there's a statue for him? The sculptor talked about why he made certain decisions about the memorial, to reflect on Meadows?

Orange1 said: "Snow, tie this in with your "obvious" suspects being investigated...?" Yeah, I was thinking about the public when I mentioned Meadows. I had forgotten that the CIA was running the show that turned into MACV-SOG, in the early '60s, and should have known. And it was before I knew that the CIA collared Braden. But other stuff I posted, about the FBI and a hunting license on the CIA (later on, with Kissinger) shows that the two didn't have a good relationship. So to be fair, the US was just fucked...i.e. the FBI and CIA weren't really working together. Probably zero intercommunication. I forget what laws were in place, but the FBI was violating all sorts of stuff, the CIA was violating all sorts of stuff, so probably they each wanted to keep their own dirty laundry to themselves. Kind of like two mafia families, basically. Except the mafia killed people. Oops, that doesn't provide a distinguishing feature here. I guess the FBI/CIA still don't work together well, in any case.. Although in the papers they like to say they are. Till I hear the stories about FBI folk banging CIA folk and vice versa, I ain't believing.