snowmman

377: maybe that Cessna could spear you as you're flying your canopy? http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10D12FE3A5812718DDDAD0994D1405B868AF1D3 Plane Catches Chutist in Air in Test of Rescue Device; Method Could Work in Vietnam Jungles, Company Asserts By EVERT CLARK Special to The New York Times September 14, 1966, Wednesday GEORGETOWN, Del., Sept. 13--A 27-year-old parachutist, testing a technique that could be used in Vietnam, was snatched safely from the air in midfall today by a plane flying at 120 miles an hour Apparently it was raining... In a light rain, a twin-engine ' C-122 plane rigged with a tin.- -like arrangement 34= Ifoot ... Of his more than 800 jumps; 300 have been with 'parachutes. ...

I've listed the demands of the various hijackers. interesting here, I think this is McNally http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=UtwRAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Fu0DAAAAIBAJ&pg=5050,3092701 demanded chutes, a military-type shovel and a "portable radar scanning device" McNally produced his machine gun from a trombone case, and the date/location matches, so I think this is McNally. Also McNally got $502,000 (why 502? who knows)

review how Martin Joseph McNally got home after his jump. And he was a whuffo. Here's a funny news page: has news about McNally, Heady, and McCoy all on the same page. http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=888&dat=19720701&id=w9IMAAAAIBAJ&sjid=3mADAAAAIBAJ&pg=7236,132544 I've seen varying numbers on how many hijacks occured post Cooper where they demanded ransom and parachutes This article on Jun 29,1972 says ten by then. http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=heELAAAAIBAJ&sjid=tVcDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4591,3765537&dq=mcnallly+hijack

That is an interesting observation. Assumming a person with experience of exiting a jet - provided they had not always been first out - would know about the pressure waves. I don't understand this. There was no one jumping out of 727s with stairs attached when Cooper jumped. C-141 was side exit What pressure wave experience would anyone have in 1971?? I understood that the general discussion of late had been the potential that someone with previous experience or knowledge of 727 could be involved. Those jumps in 1971 had the stairs removed, and a ramp inserted. I don't know where people are getting this possible prior knowledge of pressure bumps from, in 1971.

If he had enough fuel, and it was already dark, there were plenty of options on where to jump. Better weather was south. Maybe he was thinking he might not be able to jump in WA because of the weather, but it looked okay to him when he got the stairs open. If he had no clue where he was when he jumped, and was just a whuffo jumping anywhere, why not wait till they got further south?

That is an interesting observation. Assumming a person with experience of exiting a jet - provided they had not always been first out - would know about the pressure waves. I don't understand this. There was no one jumping out of 727s with stairs attached when Cooper jumped. C-141 was side exit What pressure wave experience would anyone have in 1971??

georger said "If Cooper asked for the plane to be slowed, " Cooper couldn't get the stairs down. There was an exchange with the cockpit. The flaps went to 30 to slow the plane, to get the stairs down. We don't know exactly when Rat moved the flaps back to 15. This is all in the FBI report we have, written afterwards. http://n467us.com/Data%20Files/Logs%2006-20-2008R.pdf (edit) reading that report flaps went to 30 at 7:40 (corrected) flaps went back to 15 sometime before 8:10? Maybe before Cooper jumped. (edit) I would note we've been over this a hundred times. What's new here?

Started Plaster's second book. "Secret Commandos". His first tried to be an all-encompassing retelling of every story he could find. This one is more personal. Plaster's story. page 85. He's pulling Bright Light duty with his RT Illinois. I recounted how his initial RT New Mexico had all been killed before he completed a mission with them. It took a while before he got assigned to a new RT..interestingly led by a black guy, Ben. Ben was brilliant in his tactical detail and training of his team. Ben really focused on getting his guys back. Plaster has this conversation with a Huey pilot: That first day of Bright Light, a Huey crew chief took a few minutes to show me his aircraft, from the instrument panel to the extraction rigs, machine guns, and intercom system. It all made more sense to me after that - except I still didn't understand how these guys could fly through antiaircraft fire, day after day, noisy sitting ducks in the open sky. "The happiest I am," I told him, "is when I get off that bird, and get away in the jungle. You have to be nuts to fly in and out of hot LZs like you do." "We're nuts?" he responded. "You guys are fucking crazy to get off the helicopter!" Well, we were all probably a bit unbalanced to do what we were doing.

We talked before about how McCoy really didn't have that much freefall experience Here's a news article from April 11, 1972 quoting his instructor, after his initial arrest http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=bT8NAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xGwDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4757,1370571&dq=hijacking+parachute+jumped "McCoy an amateur skydiver, was described by his parachute instructor as being only mildly expert at the sport and had never jumped at night" (remember McCoy's jump was at night) We talked about when he started freefall, and his relatively low number of jumps at the time of the hijack. Just wanted to reiterate, that unlike what Larry Carr tried to argue, McCoy was how a newb would do it. The FBI should say that. "McCoy was a newb." It would cleanse their minds.

yeah, they are passe, but ya can't sit on your couch dressed in CAMMO, watching right wing conspiracy shows on your big screen and gaze at your WiFi router the same way you can gaze upon your open gun safe and savor its manly contents. Snow, we gotta figure out a way to market free speech and communication and make it as appealing as weapons. Any ideas? 377 When they set up that thing in Texas? Where you could aim a gun remotely using the internet, and actually shoot at animals if they appeared, I thought that might help... Hmm. I'll have to ponder it. Hey I didn't mention the universal conspiracy theory. Remember the Ramparts article from Braden? The cover of that issue has John Lennon, shot in the abdomen. (he's in his antiwar movie, in WWI or II uniform). Search the internet for Mark Chapman CIA MK-ULTRA Vacaville SLA and you can see how it's all tied together. I knew 377 was mentioning SLA for a reason. Eldridge Cleaver was a Ramparts editor. So Panthers are there too. With Ramparts we can now tie the assassination of John Lennon, with the hijacking of Flight 305. Bruce was right. Hopefully he's able to explain it all on Coast to Coast. May need to throw back some bourbons first.

there are folks who seem to think the right to bear arms is critical to their enjoyment of life. Something to ponder: what about the right to free communications worldwide? What if someone took away your internet? Either directly or indirectly, say disabling half the internet (say anything connected to right wing nutcase jobs)....or making sure all email was easily tappable by the NSA? ..or charging $200/month for internet access? I have this funny image of the NRA forming a "right to communicate" lobby. So they could talk freely about guns. Guns are so passe nowadays. NRA should focus on real weapons. (i.e. one's brain and ability to communicate)

re slander. Snowmman is a liar and a thief. An adulterer and a pimp. He wipes without paper, and blows his nose into his sleeve. He cheated in 6th grade. He took candy from an open vending machine, drives without a license. Burns wood on clear-the-air days. He posts drivel to DZ.com, and doesn't change oil on 2-stroke engines at the recommended intervals. He thinks underwear has two sides for a reason. He's a slanderer, a slacker, a gadabout. If there are two sides to the coin, he'll create a third for the sake of argument. He's wanted in 13 states, not wanted in the rest, and has his passport stamped from all the countries listed in Part 746. He's on the Denied Persons List, the Entity list, the Unverified list, and the Debarred list. He flys without luggage, and drinks coffee without milk.

It sure is easy to piss on people who take a clear stand. Okay, georger, you go, then. Revenge of The Middle Ground, the Way of No Way. :)

Did the Night Clerk just show up at Portland FBI without a prior appointment? And walked up to the desk guy and said "I have a statement about the Night of November 23, 1971. It is typed and notarized. Can you take it?" Or was there prior notification that Night Clerk was going to show up. I'm surprised Larry actually got notified, if some random guy off the street walks in and starts babbling about John Collins. Do you have more detail Jo? Surprised they didn't Tase the Night Clerk and test the statement for anthrax.

Other interesting jump/criminal history/trivia The Bluegrass Conspiracy by Sally Denton true story story of Andrew Carter Thornton II Good story, including how he died in 1985 with italian shoes on, a parachute on his back, and a load of cocaine, in a guy's driveway. I highlighted all parachute references here..you can read a bunch of the book by clicking on the page snips http://books.google.com/books?id=MlZ0bSTIIsUC&q=parachute#v=snippet&q=parachute&f=false Time magazine has a shorter summary here http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,960158,00.html talks about infrared beacons and radio transponders. I particularly like the part about a bear getting into a cocaine load dropped by parachute, and o.d'ing. The whole story is good, for thinking about what's crazy and what's not...:) (edit) funny, from the Time article, talking about the side effects of interdiction efforts: "A Florida farmer, arguing that Garland's air force prompted nervous smugglers to drop their cargo, sought damages after his cow was killed by a plummeting bale of marijuana." or this allegation about a buddy and the plane that later went in: "Federal agents are also checking a link between Thornton and David Lee Williams, 35, of Atlanta, who died with 15 other sky divers two weeks ago when his plane stalled and plunged to the ground in rural Jenkinsburg, Ga. The plane's wing tanks were spiked with sugar, indicating sabotage. Thornton and Williams knew each other, and authorities speculate that they skimmed a cocaine shipment from Colombian drug suppliers. After Thornton's death, Williams became a target for revenge. His fellow sky divers, according to this theory, were just innocent bystanders." (edit) news article about the 17 jumpers killed and the link http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1356&dat=19851005&id=f5oTAAAAIBAJ&sjid=UAYEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3561,3399036

Jo said "and none left in a safe deposit box a $20. bill." This isn't right Jo. The $20 was left in the dog piggy bank, right? You gave us the name. We thought it was a bank name, but it was the name of the piggy bank? How did the $20 make it to a safe deposit box now?? (edit) Here's what you had said about the "Symba" "bank" Symba was the name of our dog who died in Oct of 1994. We all so had one of those statue banks about 12 inches tall that looked just like Symba. That is were I found a 20 dollar bill right after Duane died. I noted it was an old bill and I spent it. There was something written on it - but that never registered in my memory

Jo said "The story Duane told me was that "they" thought it was a bunch of boys going for a joy ride." When did he tell you this story? He was talking about the hijack story, and told you this story? I can't imagine the context where Duane started talking about "they". And boats and joy rides. Can you describe this conversation, date and place it occured, more? (edit) Oh I read your post more and you have some detail. But it doesn't make sense. You're saying it was just a random conversation, that you later tied to the Cooper hijack somehow? re: Night Clerk Jo said "It was not until then that the FBI took the time to contact him and then all they did was make a phone call. " This isn't true. Larry Carr said Night Clerk showed up at the Portland FBI office and they took a statement from him, right?

377 said "This loose headset stuff doesn't cut it. " What about strapping the rig to the helmet? If you can jump with a helmet cam, you can jump with a radio on your helmet? There's a bunch of patents on helmet antennas and helmet radios, from military applications.

I've only run into a few military people. They were young, in their twenties. Marines. Skill-wise, they were good at drinking beer, and buying Mustangs. That's about it. I don't know if it's representative. I'm sure 1971 was different, because a war was on. I've not met a lot of military from when a war was on.

Cool! you need the headset mounted in the helmet. I thought they had air to ground radios for student training (under canopy). Would think the helmet/headset problem must be a solved problem already? Scary! you need a flare gun...or some kind of shoot-down weapon. There's an attack the Cessna wouldn't predict..being shot down by a guy on a parachute. It's the differential. If you're going from sea level, 14000 ft differential, that quick is huge. Be interesting to wear a heart monitor to see what your pulse is doing. That's what Cooper said :) Although I think maybe he just wore ankle boots of some kind. But still: once you cover them with pants..the whole question of just what Cooper was wearing? We don't know. So you can't claim: whuffo because of shoes. It's an argument that may be true, but it's not data driven.

I guess Jerry's proposing that military men are intelligent, and don't do stupid things. While those guys who work on planes, they're nuts! They'll do any crazy-ass thing! Makes sense.

Heh. The thing is, you don't know! You can suspect, and you can theorize. But knowing is a different thing, isn't it? Okay, we can all agree. Tom didn't get paid. At all.

Why would I care what the general public, or the "average person" might say? That doesn't matter. I think the mistake Jerry, is that you think the trained people are not crazy. Many of the most highly skilled people I've known have been outright lunatics. What makes you think that all lunatics die? or whatever you're proposing? Sure, the "crazy people" you're talking about don't accomplish much. See: you have to analyze the kind of "crazy person" who actually got the cash and chutes delivered to him, put on the rig, and jumped out. It's real simple. Analyze the other jumpers that hijacked and jumped. There are what, three? Walk me through them, and show me why their jumps made sense, and Coopers didn't. (note they survived..all) Or vice versa, or whatever point of view you have. I really can't see why you're all fixated on airplanes and speeds. Why would someone who was clueless about jumping, care about plane speed? And you don't need to know much to get a plane to fly slow. They land with flaps and wheels down, and don't fall out of the sky. Makes sense if you want to go slow, just ask for that. Hell if it's not possible, the pilot will tell you. He's not going to die.

georger reasonably asked "Why the interrogation? Are you off meds? " I had a good chuckle when you mentioned that there was a sense of civility in the forum. I realize we all have our own perspective, but you recognize your own uncivility right? I recognize mine at least.

He got more? I knew it. Can't trust rumors.