snowmman

Like I said, reasonable levels of drugs and alcohol in pilots are OK, enough to see the same Flamingos your jumpers are seeing, but not so much that you cant do a successful evasive maneuver. 377 Okay I thought it was pretty cool that Orange1 had both a cat story and a falcon story and a flamingo story...but lets get real. If Amazon told the flamingo story, it would have ended with her grabbing the flamingo in mid-jump, holding onto to it all the way to landing, and then going back to the pilot with it and beating him upside the head and never flying with that bozo again. :) (I actually love Amazon's stories and want to hear more)

ancestralmanor: obviously the right path is to contact Larry Carr, Seattle FBI who has asked for the public's help. I suppose the 2nd step would to get involved in that group of citizen sleuths I read about that's working with the FBI. Wouldn't that get you all the information? If not, then where do you go? Have you contacted Larry? re serial numbers order http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3100085;search_string=serial%20number;#3100085 "I know what your saying when you write, "the money is in the same order as when it was handed to Cooper" but the order per serial number was never documented. There is no indication the money was re-bundled. " and intentional random bundling http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3171040;search_string=random;#3171040 "the money was put together in different bill counts so it looked as if it was put together in a hurry. "

ancestralmanor: another woman who wants to lecture people about how she's the only one who can see shit. ancestral: rather than assuming other people are clue-free, just state your case. If you have no new evidence or viewpoints, why are you accusing others of being clue-free? she said "Should be a contemporaneous public record detailing more about the money find in the Portland federal files - original sources, primary information, much less room for conjecture. " So get them.

Exactly who and where was the money presented to Brian for his final selection? Brian might know that ... whoever it was and whatever the final process it certainly was not forensic if Brian walked away with serial numbers the FBI had not even recovered! God only knows what the insurance company has! How did a Court supervise an unknown? We talked about the person that represented the Insurance company at the money split before. It was Globe Indemnity Co. represented by lawyer I think he still has a practice up there in WA or OR. I could dig up his probable contact and maybe Bruce could contact him? I'm not sure if it would be useful though? articles said he got $2760 out of the $5800 http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=FB&p_theme=fb&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0EAE7ED3B2951562&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM Evidently brian's plane was late for the money presentation, and there were just a lawyer for brian and for the insurance company at first? (when the money was given up in 1986) elsewhere it says they split $5520 with the FBI keeping $280 (14 bills...like I say, some say the FBI got 13) The insurance company lawyer was Stephen P. Rickles (edit) fixed link http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=K2gVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=MOEDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3291,2764266&dq=brian-ingram+indemnity+lawyer&hl=en This Stephen P. Rickles graduated with his JD in 1979 http://www.rickles-law.com/rick.att.rickles.html He was admitted to the Oregon State Bar in 1979 He was a Senior Deputy DA until 1985 apparently then started working in insurance defense The firm is based in Portland, OR. (his picture is at the link) So I'm thinking he might be the guy?

We saw how the FBI stored the money. I just found this picture of Laura A. Kessler examining Ingram's money at pcgs, and realized she's looking at a brown photo album with plastic sleeves of some kind, that brian must have used to store the money. PCGS put each bill in individual protection after they got them, before the auction. So the brown album must be Brian's original storage. from http://www.pcgs.com/articles/article_view.chtml?artid=5244 attached

They picked rubber band fragments off back at the apt as the money was drying etc ... ah good info, thanks georger. I always thought the description was they crumbled at the touch, so they disappeared at the beach. It makes more sense that they are confident of the rubber bands if there were fragments still when they got home and could see without the sand.

manor person asked: "Were the bundles stacked on top of each other or laying side by side when Brian found them? How deep?" Brian has given multiple descriptions. Some conflicting. I think his description of all 3 bundles stuck together (i read as on top of each other..they wouldn't stick otherwise)...is the most consistent. (edit) Arguably, the rubber bands were there, if they were all stuck together, otherwise why would they say "3 bundles"...you need rubber bands around at least two groups, to say there are 3 groups. Otherwise you would just say "a mass" or "lots of bills" so I guess that supports rubber bands

ancestralmanor raises an issue I was wondering about recently. There were a number of estimates of total $ at the time of the find. $5800 was common. It's reasonable this was an estimate based on the average # of bills in each bundle, which ckret said was random. But here's what's strange this page http://historical.ha.com/c/press-release.zx?releaseId=1509 connected with the recent auction says Ingram had only 84 bills/fragments. "Ingram found approximately $5,800 of the $200,000 ransom given to the skyjacker, and the FBI later returned a small portion to his family. Ingram owns 84 D.B. Cooper bills and fragments." If Ingram and the insurance company went 50-50, and the FBI only kept 13 or 14 bills, then it doesn't add up..i.e. Brian didn't get enough. Recent account says the FBI has 13 http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-03-31-hijacker-bills_N.htm Brian did give or sell at least one bill very early after he got them. Remember the story of the teacher in the school (Sallislaw, OK) he went to after they left California that I posted? The teacher got a bill for his retired FBI agent dad. back in the thread here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3263447;search_string=ingram%20ebay;#3263447 That bill showed up on ebay around the time of the first Ingram auctions. We discussed it here. So did Brian have more bills before? maybe a small number more than the 84. Or is the 84 wrong? I wonder if it means that the "3 bundles" really didn't have as many bills as the original estimate implied, once they dissected the bundles? ancestral: I think I posted the largest photos (cropped) of the money from both auctions here already. I also posted pictures that someone who actually bought some of the bills, had put on the web. But my point: If the total number of bills in the Brian find was much less than $5800/$20 = 290, then maybe there were no rubber bands? They said only one bundle was missing rubber bands. But even if it was missing a lot of bills, there should be more? 84 + 84 + 13 = 181 bills, not 290. Even allowing for 10% randomness of bills per bundle, compared to the original FBI estimate, it seems too far off. I think we tried to estimate the number of bills from the side thickness of the bundles on the green table photos from 1980. was not conclusive. The 3 bundles were split into 12 stuck-together stacks in those pics. Now would any stuff found by the FBI be included in that $5800 sum? dunno. They reported it as found by Brian. ancestral: Ckret said neither the count per bundle, nor the serial number order per bundle was recorded. He wasn't even clear to us on how the rubber bands secured the bundles. One wrap or two or more? (remember the FBI never saw the rubber bands, though). ckret references: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3104370;search_string=serial%20numbers;#3104370

I would remind everyone, that Tom Kaye is just a frontman put out there to deceive the public, and I, Snowmman, am the president-for-life of the Citizen's Sleuth Group. The proof is that no one else claims the same position, and the CSG obviously exists. I don't give interviews. Why shouldn't I work for the NSA? That's a tough one, but I'll give it a shot. Say I'm working at NSA. Somebody puts a code on my desk, something nobody else can break. So I take a shot at it and maybe I break it. And I'm real happy with myself because I did my job well. But maybe that code was the location of some rebel army in North Africa or the Middle East. Once they have that location, they bomb the village where the rebels were hiding and 1,500 people I never had a problem with get killed. Now the politicians are saying, 'Send in the marines to secure the area' because they don't give a shit. It won't be their kid over there, getting shot. Just like it wasn't them when their number was called because they were pulling a tour in the National Guard. It'll be some guy from Southie taking shrapnel in the ass. And he comes home to find that the plant he used to work at got exported to the country he just got back from. And the guy who put the shrapnel in his ass got his old job, because he'll work for 15 cents a day and no bathroom breaks. Meanwhile my buddy from Southie realizes the only reason he was over there was so we could install a government that would sell us oil at a good price. And of course the oil companies used the skirmish to scare up oil prices so they could turn a quick buck. A cute little ancillary benefit for them but it ain't helping my buddy at $2.50 a gallon. And naturally they're taking their sweet time bringing the oil back and maybe even took the liberty of hiring an alcoholic skipper who likes to drink martinis and play slalom with the icebergs, and it ain't too long until he hits one, spills the oil and kills all the sea life in the North Atlantic. So my buddy's out of work and he can't afford to drive, so he's got to walk to the job interviews, which sucks because the shrapnel in his ass is giving him chronic hemorrhoids. And meanwhile he's starving because every time he tries to get a bite to eat the only blue plate special they're serving is North Atlantic scrod with Quaker State. So what do I think? I'm holding out for something better. Why not just shoot my buddy, take his job and give it to his sworn enemy, hike up gas prices, bomb a village, club a baby seal, hit the hash pipe and join the National Guard? I could be elected president.

okay there's so many new posters, I'll throw out my idea for page 666, where 377 has to be the first post. Here's how to make it even better. On page 665, everyone is required to post only once. Think of it like a 25-way formation. We don't get to advance to page 666 unless there are 25 unique posters on page 665. So 366 makes it complete with the 26 way, on the start of page 666. So then everyone's in. Plus. We have to get 25 unique posters. Plus. Anyone can screw it up by posting twice on page 665. Kind of boosts the failure probability.

I wonder how the FBI first ID'd Petey as a suspect? Based on my personal experience in criminal cases it's a mistake to rule out a suspect based on a witness sketch unless there is a HUGE difference. Petey may not be Cooper but he is close enough to the sketch to stay in the suspect pool. 377 I agree. BTW: Petey's clammed up on me again. This is not right. Bruce: Tell Petey that you want to talk about his book. I think I may be the only person on the planet who's paid money for his book. I paid $25. And I can't get to talk to the author? Why write a book if you don't want to discuss it with your readers? This is like J. D. Salinger? We're supposed to guess at the themes? I've done a lot of guessing, and shit, it's about time the author speaks! He's going to be dead soon. (age: consult actuarial tables for prediction) Then where will I be? $25 short of of a twenty, shit out of luck, stuck in the Death Woods after a heli insert by a drunk unlicensed buddy of Jerry's, staring at some piece of shit ebook that I can't figure out. ... with Amazon cackling maniacally next to me as she gimps off into the dark with a leg half sawed off, with me yelling "hey, wait for me"..and all I can hear is her in the distance "..This is like a jump we did in Utah, man I beat the crap out of that rigger too when I got back..." What kind of friggin thread is this? (edit) If that doesn't work, tell him "The Ox Bow Incident" was way f*ing better, anyhow.

uh oh. secret messages. I suspect death threats. If we don't hear from Bruce in a couple days...

yeah, it is. Jumpers dont care about FAA licenses, they just want enough time in type to handle the acft in tough situations and reasonable blood alcohol and drug levels in the jumpship pilots. I didnt say ZERO. I mean that would be hypocritical, 377 I can remember doing a bandit water jump into the Ohio River many moons ago... the pilot... well shall we say was not quite right..... and had not flown jumpers before. On "Jump Run" he was in the freakin clouds....looking out his side window.. I was kneeling in the door of the C-180 trying to see some ground down there somewhere thru the clouds..... nothing to see but cloud. I look over at him..since the airplane is just not feeling right.. and as I look over I catch a glimpse of the ground.... out of the windshield... close lookin too... I punched him and pointed as I was diving out the door. I opened about 900 ft over a church steeple on the bluffs overlooking the river... he managed to pull it out over the river. I never flew with that moron again. I'm picturing Cooper with a similar story. Just swap C-180 with 727, and "Ohio River" with "Columbia River".. :)

yeah, it is. Jumpers dont care about FAA licenses, they just want enough time in type to handle the acft in tough situations and reasonable blood alcohol and drug levels in the jumpship pilots. I didnt say ZERO. I mean that would be hypocritical, 377 ah! well that explains it. I was at a DZ and I heard some guys talking to someone who must have been a pilot: "So, can you take us up now, we want to get some jumps before it rains" "With that plane? Are you nuts? I'd have to be drunk to fly that plane, in it's condition, not to mention the weather coming in" "Yeah, we understand. The bar's over there. We'll be waiting at the plane".

First we have JERRY's DEATH WOODS and now MAYFIELD's DEATH DZ. 377 Is mayfield going to do my heli insert? Hmm. Maybe I should have included the proviso in the contract that the pilot had to be licensed for the craft being flown. Is that being too wussy?

Is Sluggo's avator a falcon? If people haven't seen this Nat Geo vid that combines analyzing the dive speed of a peregrine falcon with skydiving...I thought it was way cool. link below. Has anyone ever been hit by a bird in some way, while skydiving? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3mTPEuFcWk

two new posters in one day plus farflung's back. Man, I know we're going to get this thing solved! :) Now where did hangdiver go?

why? what rules him in? what makes him a good Cooper? as opposed to any random fool?

Looking at those pictures I would suggest that anyone who things Duane Weber was Cooper is deluding themselves. BUT who am I to rain on the parade here in the thread that never dies. Keep at it everyone... if you can just find that one person that sort of remembers talking to someone (don't remember who) that thought they had heard a story long time ago about someone that had a dream about being Cooper... everything will come together Hi Ian!! This thread is all about 1000 in-jokes. Duane (edit) (well, actually, maybe Jo Weber?) is one of them. Orange1 has pronounced that I have a heart of gold, so I have to be on best behavior, but the right answer to your post would be "So you don't think Duane was Cooper?" (edit) okay, any newcomer, we have to squeeze something of value from....I'm guessing you're a Brit, so what's a definitive definition of "taking the piss out of someone" ??? (something a yank could understand)

So, you think Duane Weber might have been Cooper?

The audio is here. mp3. you can just click on it http://www.brianchurilla.com/db/DB_Cooper_Datafile_01.mp3 background from http://thedbcooperdiaries.com/DB_intro.htm On November 24th, 2001, several reels of encrypted analog data were discovered in an abandoned farmhouse in southwest Washington. Soon after, a team of Atlas Laboratories scientists and engineers were able to decrypt and extract a staggering amount of textual, audio and visual data from the reels. It is our belief here at Atlas Labs that within this fragmented data is a comprehensive imprint of D.B. Cooper’s psyche, and more importantly, reveals “The D.B. Copper Incident” for what it actually was. We unequivocally proclaim that it was not a hijacking and extortion plot as widely reported. In fact, this cover story is quite pedestrian, as what really happened nearly changed the course of human history.

Hey look, before anyone makes fun of this thread: make fun of the people who either pre-order or buy Geoffrey Gray's Cooper book this year. Now that it silly! (see you're never silly, if you can create some lower class of society that is more silly. Silliness is just a pecking order)

you know, back in the thread, there's that constant refrain of "haven't you talked it to death?" The weird thing about the Cooper thing is that we didn't really..we actually haven't spent a lot of time repeating the same old thing. It seems like there's always a new spin, and there's always some new thing that crops up to chew over. And when all else fails, we practice our insults. I think of this thread as a test vehicle for DZ.com. Think of all the storage we use. And by being out in front on page numbers/post counts, other threads can rest easy knowing that they're not going to fail when they hit a certain page number. It's a dirty job. Someone's got to do it.

georger mused "To my eyes Cooper's profile falls into a rather specific 'type' but I just can't nail the type!" I'm not sure what 'type' encompasses. But since you mentioned "profile", I'm wondering if you mean more than physical appearance. Or are you trying to read something into physical appearance? What about absent father? raised by mother?

my neighbor is up to 54 cats, 10 skunks, uncountable racoons, cyotes, a few fox, 3 dogs, 240 cattle, ....... he feeds them all! he's definitely won, or lost, depending on how you look at it. I suspect the animals say "We've just got the one damn human. Don't need more. They just get in the way"