Martini

Hmmm, another piece of interesting info, the snug bridle causing kill line and presumably bridle wear. My use of slinks is based on bridle wear from a speed link and knowing several people who have gone to slinks, I assumed that they were using main slinks but I'll ask around. Interestingly I generally use a speed link at the canopy because I find it much easier to change canopies which I do frequently. Thanks for the great input. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Wow! Thanks for the stories, they're valuable info. I wonder what size the grommets were in these instances. If I'm reading you right both failures were using main slinks, I'm using those also but as I mentioned I don't believe they will pull through a 9/16" grommet. I found a 5/8" grommet on my old Racer d-bag, when I have time I'll test it with main slinks and post the result. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Thanks, I also found that table. But others such as Stimpson http://www.stimpson.com/rolledRimGrommets_washers.htm?col5=open and Chicago Canvas [/url]http://www.chicagocanvas.com/job-helpers/[url] don't agree. Poynter's table doesn't refer to a 9/16" but he does refer to one regarding grommets for cones. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Great, let us know how the test works out. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

That's how I read that too, one site called a 9/16" grommet a #4-S, I thought that the S was for stainless though. Maybe it's a #4 1/2? Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Excellent point. Also worthy of a test so I did and you're right, the pc could easily collapse before the bag is extracted or canopy deployment. Don't know how I missed that. I don't have a #5 grommet to test pull-through though. Attatched is a pic of bridle damage caused by using a speed link as a bridle stop, it probably has 900-1000 jumps and was nearing retirement anyway. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

If that were mine I'd probably just straighten it, I don't think there's a "rule" one way or another. If I was a rigger I might be more conservative on other people's gear. Judging by the pic I'd be a lot more concerned about that frayed looking reserve closing loop. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Have you tried to pull a main slink setup through a #5 grommet? It would be interesting to see if it is possible. I'm assuming a #5 is 5/8" ID. I wonder if a pull-through is a real problem. The bag will still extract and the canopy will deploy. The kill line may not function, only a problem on highly loaded canopies. Most (but by no means all) highly loaded canopies are small and light so the snatch force that could result in a pull-through is relatively low making a pull through less likely to start with. Got laid off last week, gives me more time to ponder trivia. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

The grommet hole is around 9/16", I think that may be smaller than a #5. Keep in mind I'm using regular slinks not reserves which may be needed on a larger grommet. I am not a rigger and am only describing my setup. Mike at Chuting Star you can trust, also talk to your rigger. If you don't have one then you need one. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Lots of people, myself included, use a slink on the bridle at the d-bag grommet. I use a regular slink, I'd bet the grommet would pull out of the bag (Infinity) before the slink/bridle would pull through the grommet. Using a speed link caused enough damage to one of my bridles that I retired the bridle and pc. I don't know about a #5 grommet and won't speculate on other people's gear but both of my Infinities are set up the same. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Smaller reserve is around 1.6 Naturally it's MUCH more lightly loaded after chopping the main Sometimes you eat the bear..............

It snowed 8" here today and it's not even noon yet. Thanks for the response and the links. Most of the discussions are theory, this from the SIM: D. H igh-sp eed stall 1. Occurs at any speed when the canopy reaches too high of an angle of attack 2. Easily induced as a result of distorting the wing too far during a rear-riser flare Little info on actual performance though. Brian's info in "The Parachute and its Pilot", which I own, is far more detailed of course but the original question remains. So yes, I'll just have to do a high hop n pop and play with the stall point, I'll try to do it on one of my Sabres and also on my Xaos to see if there is any real difference. BTW not only have I never stalled a wing digging out a low hook but I don't remember ever seeing it happen watching swoop videos that inlude plenty of low digs. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Excellent question. I've often wondered the same thing but only as it applies to toggle input. During the sharp recovery arc created by strong brake input on a diving canopy the wing should experience a temporarily high wingload, higher wingload means higher stall speed. That part seems apparent but I'm only speculating. OTOH the wing may compensate for that effect by being more pressurized or from some other factor. My instincts tell me the canopy should enter a stall with less input during recovery but my experience doesn't agree. I hope someone with definitive answers will chime in. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

I really don't want to hijack this thread further but I have a reason not to take this to PMs. My point to Ridestrong was to make him, and others, aware that it isn't OK to offer unqualified advice even if your intentions are good. When I started jumping if a lowtimer was heard offering ANY advice he was gonna get an ass chewing. This is not a forgiving sport. I'd much rather upset someone with my lack of PC than see someone get bad advice. And I'm constantly amazed at how easily people here act all offended and angry if I flip them shit, I fully expect a sporting response not a "fuck you". My problem with this site is that it is too namby-pamby and not aggressive enough, way too much tolerance of bad info from unqualified jumpers. I almost never offer advice, I think rigging advice should be left to riggers for example. I am willing though to offer experience-based information and I have total respect for other peoples opinions if they are fact based or experience based. Both you and Ridestrong are welcome to PM me, I'd be happy to give you my phone number if you'd like to talk. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

I recently bought a Sabre that someone put a slider mod on, the thing would have snivelled forever if I hadn't been able to shake the slider down using violent riser input, my Xaos will also snivel far too long if packed improperly. There really IS such a thing as too soft an opening, a 60 second snivel would fall in that category. The Icarus canopy questioned in this thread went about 3 seconds not counting the end cell closures, that really isn't even a snivel. I get a kick out of that vid, it reminds me that throwing under 2k can bite ya. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Skygod Martini to Skygod Monkey; made a couple of w/s jumps with Tony and Dave Saturday, two paraglide flights today including opening a new pg launch. Didn't worry too much about ignorant posts about linetypes but I sure learned a lot about w/s and pg. Mostly from people with better skills and experience than I have. Funny, the more experience I have the more questions I ask. I sure like hanging with people I respect, it humbles me as well as educates me. Also makes me less tolerant of posers. Keeping on thread: No discussion of HMA(?) and also one of the reasons I've never owned an Icarus canopy is their poor service reputation, but Icarus isn't the only mfg guilty of a reputation of poor service. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Have you asked for steel shot? I haven't reloaded for years but that was the cheap alternative to lead when lead shot began to be outlawed. Bismuth, tungsten etc are bound to be more $ than plain ole steel. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Well you know it's very rare, high performance and modern because the seller has 100% positive feedback. And the 35$ knife is an especially sweet deal with only $12 shipping. The only way it could be more convincing would be a picture of the seller holding the knife while wearing a coat and tie. If the ad's not a joke then it's even funnier. Naturally I too have one of those.......... in my junkpile. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Nice tantrum junior, best contribution by you! Sometimes you eat the bear..............

For a guy I wasn't really tight with I'm amazed at how often I think of him. I'm sure he never knew how much I admired him. Fucker still makes my gut hurt. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

So you're inferring that the OP is an idiot and that the people who have corrected your misinformation are assholes? I'll have to reread the SIM, I thought you had to be 18 to skydive. Maybe you got a waiver. Sorry dude, I just noticed your sig line, kinda like a free pass! Sometimes you eat the bear..............

This is the internet, please feel free to broadcast disinformation at will.

Now that's a fascinating piece of psychology. Not only do you do something risky/foolish and demonstrate that you knew it was risky/foolish but you brag about it. And you want sympathy because a DZO won't let you do someting risky/foolish at his place of business? If I stand on the top step of a ladder at home I'm being stupid. If I do it at work I'm being fired. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Interestingly PD used a different ZP material or coating for a while that remains slick even after many hundreds of jumps. A friend had a Stiletto made of the stuff and one of my Sabres has it. Not as slick as a new canopy but way more slippery than "ordinary" ZP. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Great post Dave, nice job pointing out the things that conspired to help create issues for some Sabre owners. I'd like to add that Sabres from 107 to 170 came with the same size slider, that might help account for the slammer reputation of the 170. OTOH I never had a problem with a 170 that I borrowed years ago. I also wonder if some of the older canopies, particularly larger sizes, might have had inconsistent construction quality that created some bummer canopies. That might account for the reports of canopies in trim and packed by sabre-savvy packers that still opened hard. My experience has been that attention to the slider is critical to Sabre openings, far more negative potential than other canopies. Sometimes you eat the bear..............