Martini

Well, you got that right. We tried yesterday on a Sabre 2-150. Great stable 182 launch, quick throw (not a static line) and then a looooong snivel while we went head down. Camera flier easily keeping up in a sit. Uh oh. Me (Mr. Bill) with tight grips on the harness and a vise grip leg lock on the waist getting violently ejected when the canopy suddenly opened. Just when I thought we'd be able to hold on. This was not a gentle thing. Back to the drawing board. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

My review is about Parachute Systems, formerly Chute Shop. Same owners, different name. I owned a Chute Shop ZP-135. It flew badly. My initial contact with Mari at Chute shop went well but they then refused to respond to repeated emails. This went on for months. I was unable to get line specs, a lineset, a reline or any information. I no longer have the canopy. A friend who has an identical canopy told me that a couple of years ago it took four months to get a lineset from Chute Shop. I have done business with PD, Precision Aerodynamics and Aerodyne. They all have first rate products, rapid response times and great service. From Parachute Systems you can expect NO service after your purchase. If you check around you'll find the same complaint all over about Chute Shop. It's hard to even find a dealer for their products, why do you suppose that is? Save your gear money for a manufacturer who cares about more than the initial sale, there are plenty of others who have better products and great service too.

Hi Chris This might be a good time to find the replacement canopy you've been looking for. Check the classifieds here, I have had only good experiences buying & selling here. The lineset will set you back close to $200, money better spent on a newer canopy. A good used Stiletto, Cobalt or Crossfire can be had for $ 600-800 with good lines, a Sabre 2 is harder to find used. Since you might also find a good deal at Eloy, having the rigger of your choice replace the one frayed line, if necessary, is an inexpensive alternative. You might also think about padding your old container (cheap) until you can find a replacement to fit your "new" and probably smaller canopy. Just my 2 cents. I'll be out Sunday if we get a weather break. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Thanks, Sangiro, for including another canopy and container mfg. to the gear section. As it happens my opinion of Chute Shop has gone waaaaaay downhill since I posted. I'm planning to dis them bigtime in the gear section but will refrain if I'm told that Parachute Systems is not owned and operated by the same inconsiderate, unresponsive, careless bunch of idiot jerks that ran Chute Shop. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

It turns out that the canopy i mentioned was probably a VX not a velocity, and possibly much bigger like a 79.. I doubt that there's much difference on a Mr. Bill jump. Any tips for pulling this jump off successfully (and safely)? Sometimes you eat the bear..............

A friend and I were going to do a couple of Mr. Bill jumps but got rained out and decided to learn more about them anyway. First we were going to jump his 135 Sabre 2 and then my 98 Xaos. I've seen one done by a couple of guys on a 69 Velocity but noticed that on a previous post that small h.p. canopies were considered to be a bad idea. It would be hard to find a softer opener than my Xaos so I assume that the reason must be the potential for a spinner. Anybody out there ever Mr. Billed a small canopy? Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Unless you spot, and spot well, for a round reserve ride on EVERY load you may someday find yourself in big trouble. On an Otter or other large load usually the first/last out get a short/long spot. If you have big dangerous obstacles around you may not be able to avoid landing in them (land in a river and your odds of survival are poor. power lines suck too.) A truly steerable reserve is way safer as far as I'm concerned. Stick with the square reserve. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

There is no doubt that actual descent rate isn't influenced by wind but something else is going on (optical illusion?). I have found myself way too low after the downwind leg on a windy day on more than one occasion. You would think that you would end up too high if anything because the time is shorter between two equidistant points if your downwind groundspeed is higher than upwind groundspeed, so your descent time and therefore distance is actually less going downwind. I know that many others share this experience simply because it is common belief that you do in fact descend faster going downwind and many folks have told me so (including pilots!). I'll stick to my physics but I'm not willing to die proving the point. I like the idea of a R.H. hook from the base leg because it fits the flow, keeping in mind a 270 always opposes traffic at some point. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

I had more than one talking to about setting up 180's by coming in downwind and snapping 180 to final, so I "reverted" to a traditional approach (downwind, base, final) followed by a quick dodge 90 right and 180 left. Even though this might seem odd no one ever bitched, the setup is natural and affords a clear view around. Also lets you do a 90 left turn if you set up too low. I found 270's much harder to set up because our DZ generally flies a left-hand approach and I like left-hand hooks, so I don't do 270's if there is ANY traffic. Also I switched from a Stiletto to a Xaos which dives steeper and longer so I don't need a 270 to get the speed I need. Yet. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Based on recent personal experience I would suggest that you avoid doing business with Chute Shop (makers of the Vortex). Their customer support is nonexistent. There are lots of reputable container manufacturers out there that will serve you better than those mutts. I jump an Infinity. The container is well designed, well made, freefly friendly, fairly priced and their customer service is fantastic. You won't find better folks to do business with than Velocity Sports Equipment, makers of the Infinity. (No I'm not sponsered by them) Sometimes you eat the bear..............

I liked my stainless grommets, they brought the slider farther down the lines without shaking the risers. No difference on packing or openings. On the other hand my brass grommets are larger, making slider stowing behind the head easier and safer so I'll stick with them. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Interesting website. too bad it's in Norwegian except for the english "references". I've tried to come up with a current english website for Chute Shop and haven't been able. The one you link appears to be a distributor in Norway. It seems logical that all the info there should be available in english. I seem to recall that the "Vortex" container is TSO'd and also the Decellerator reserve so maybe Chute Shop is trying to ramp up US sales. Also Ralph Hatley in Oregon had several "ZP" canopies a few years ago for sale. I think they were demos from Quincy. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Why, in the "Gear" section, under "Main and Reserve Canopies", is the manufacturer Chute Shop omitted? They make or have made canopies including Hurricane, Bladerunner, Predator, ZP, ZPexe and Decelerator Reserve. They also make a container called the Vortex. Although Chute Shop canopies are not widely popular in the US they seem to be well made, well liked and inexpensive. Maybe so inexpensive that other manufacturers would like to see them go away. At any rate they don't deserve to be ignored. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Thanks Phree. I've read that manual several times before, it's one of the best pieces out there. Interestingly though, my Stiletto is considered to have a very positive recovery arc and it sure did before I had it relined. It used to come out of a dive too fast, prompting really low hooks but requiring no toggle input when I nailed the altitude. Now with a new lineset (and brakelines that aren't too short) it doesn't have that short arc and needs input to flatten out. 'Course maybe I haven't learned to start high enuf yet but it looks like it'll keep diving forever. How un-Stilettolike. A whole new thing to learn. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Anybody have experience "popping" the toggles at the end of the dive to flatten out the canopy? Most folks tell me that a smooth, longer duration toggle stroke maintains speed better while others insist that a popping action creates less drag because the brakes aren't on as long at the initial planeout. What are the comp. swoopers doing? Clearly rear riser swoops are the most efficient but I'll leave that technique alone for a few hundred more jumps. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

The lower arrow is missing from the scroll bar this morning (on the classifieds and forums at least, haven't checked elsewhere). Maybe it overslept. Oops, just noticed it's missing on all websites. Hmmmmm, maybe it's just me. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

In case yer interested in real math, 8cm is about 3 1/8", less than half of the seven inches quoted. Still a lot of line shrink. All line choices are tradeoffs. Know what you've got (or want) and deal with it accordingly. But use correct information when making comparisons. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Dave, very cool photo showing riser deflection. This much rear riser pull must affect swoop kinda like rear risering (except you're deep in brakes ). Is that a Heatwave you fly? Most Stilettos (Heatwave copy ha ha ) would bowtie with brakes that deep. BTW I wonder if most folks think SS slider grommets are worth paying an extra $40 for (as some mfgs. charge). Do brass grommets really cause that much more brakeline wear? This is especially an issue on Vectran and HMA lines. These lines don't show much visible wear before they become dangerously fragile and they are found only on canopies that are likely to be flown and landed with highly stressed brakelines. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Just use a stapler around the edge of the pc. That way you can experiment with smaller and smaller pc sizes until the container won't open. Then go back up a size or two. Wouldn't want to waste big bucks on a new pc, they're kind of a frivolous thing anyway. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

That's an interesting twist. What's the difference between PD and Icarus designs that would cause you to fly them differently?

Thanks Quade, the iPilot site had just what I was looking for.

Oh, you're supposed to pull higher on a long spot? I can't control that part 'cause when I see that we're long I close my eyes and count to one hundred. Then pull. It seems to work OK.

The reason I ask is that I often fly back from a long spot (Stiletto 135 @ 1.4 psf) with brakes stowed and sometimes add a touch of rear riser. Everyone is moving faster brakes released but I get a relaxed hands-off ride back with the wind, just a little hip steer or rear riser steer. The real question is who gets back with the most altitude. Haven't got that answer.

I have a friend who has an Esprit 150. He won't jump it anymore because it has no flare, just smashes in. Could be jumped out, could be a bad canopy pilot, could be a dog of a canopy. No one else will jump it either though. Good luck if you do.

When you are hanging in rear risers coming back from a long spot do you have your brakes released or stowed?