Martini

Not intending to be picky but the term "fall rate" implies freefall velocity. Under canopy "descent rate" is more commonly used to describe the vertical component. Helps to avoid confusing people like me. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Well-balanced stows can indeed take the place of friction, but I prefer to take advantage of both. Quote That reminds me of another point against tight stows. The tighter the stows are the more the bag can rock even with balanced stow tension. In particular small, lightweight canopies would seem to be destabilized by very tight stows while looser stows would have relatively less effect on the bagged canopy. Again, I'm not recommending that lines should be stowed with no tension, freestowing increases the likelihood of tension knots and entanglements. Rather I'm suggesting that the prevailing 12 lb. standard is unnecessarily high. BTW I'm basing my view not just on theory but from experience, being a lazy packer has left me critical of only my locking stows. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

The OP wanted to know if stows needed to be "really tight". Presumably he's talking about ordinary skydiving gear not tandem rigs or special cases . FWIW I use what would be considered to be loose stows and deploy with minimal flaring from any jump and in full flight wingsuiting. I'm still sticking by my not-so-humble opinion that the main stows need minimal grip, the locking stows do the essential job of keeping the canopy from opening before linestretch. Come to think of it didn't you, in the distant past, used to freestow your lines? Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Seth, how the hell are you going to pack that thing to the top of Mt. XXXXXX? Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Hmmmm, I don't think confusion exists about this. The point is that the line release system on BASE and reserve canopies doesn't require TIGHT (like 12 lbs) line containment; tailpocket line release is more like ounces, "stowless" d-bag tension is also very light and reserve line release from what I've seen is also pretty light. Your statement about tight enough to prevent premature release hits the nail on the head, unfortunately that tightness remains an elusive quantity. 12 lbs. works fine, so does 1 lb. as far as I can tell. That's about the release tension on both of my rigs or on my BASE canopy. Really tight stows, within reason of course, don't appear harmful, neither do they seem necessary. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

I was being sarcastic (as usual), lack of BASE and reserve line stows should make it plain that the necessity of tight stows is a myth. All that is required is that the lines are straight before the canopy opens and that the lines don't entangle. Many people are using "stowless" d-bags, naturally the bag must have a closing mechanism at the mouth. BTW BASE rigs and reserves typically don't route the lines in the tray, they're usually s-folded in the d-bag (reserve) or tailpocket (BASE). My wingsuit rig has very loose stows, I throw in full flight, jump a Sabre-1 and have great openings. Of course not everyone agrees with this, like PD for instance. I get to express my opinion about this here about three times a year, so far nobody has come up with a reasonable rebuttal. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

This has been discussed to death here. It is essential to have tight stows. That's why reserves and BASE rigs don't use them. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Just before they break? Riser wear, like all components, is dependent on factors like sun exposure, environment (sand, salt etc.), abuse/care, canopy opening speed and pilot weight, construction quality etc. Also risk tolerance. There is no point in basing your decision on other people's experience. Also several sets of risers I own were used when I got them, jump numbers are unknown but visual examination is useful. Personally I'd pay a lot more attention to closing loops, risers rarely break. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

I'd suggest test-jumpng the Sabre, get someone who knows how to pack a Sabre to pack for you so you'll know how the canopy can open, then if you like it get that packer to instruct you. If jumping it yourself isn't possible get someone you know/trust to test it for you. I can jump any canopy I want and still choose the Sabre for most of my jumps. I also use a slightly oversized slider but all other Sabre-1s Ive jumped have been fine with the original slider. Packing technique is definitely a factor. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

I looked up the definition of "troll", a copy of your post is what I found. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Meaning that a 1:1 230 Spectre will fly with the same air speed (not L/D) as 1:1 97 Spectre *** Don't the shorter lines on the smaller canopy reduce drag and increase airspeed? The smaller canopy will have a reduced airfoil thickness. Your theoretical approach regarding wing size and airspeed might be correct, in practice parasitic drag is a factor (airfoil and lines). Also since the weight is proportionately smaller on the smaller canopy to produce the same wingload it seems reasonable that the smaller weight (a person) would present a smaller surface area, another change in drag. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

If I ever thought "slider rebound" was an issue or had concerns about the slider drifting down the lines I would hitch a rubber band around a center "C" line attatchment point and band the top of the slider up like some BASE guys do for slider-up jumps. How about magnets at the slider stops and nickel or 400 series stainless grommets or brass grommets with bits of iron sewn in. I do have a good test canopy for the hole and drawstring slider idea, a Xaos that wii snivel an honest 1500' if you let it. The slider also likes to hang up so more weight would help. I even have an extra slider for it but it's being used on another canopy. And I have a plan for the system and expert sewing ability (my wife). I'll build the slider but I need George Galloway or some benefactor to pay for the test jumps. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Having several brake settings (like on some BASE rigs) is an interesting idea, naturally it requires attention to prevent interesting malfunctions. Adjustable slider stops seem reasonable too. I've experienced the use of different slider weights but only to bring the slider fully down not to change openings. How about this: a slider with a large hole in it, the hole can be closed or opened by use of a locking drawstring to regulate the opening size. Yes it is late and I'd be brainstorming if I had one. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

When I first read this post I thought it was kinda dumb, why try to change something that is so simple and works so well? Then, after a few days thought and several bottles of wine it occurred to me that the slider could use improvement in one area. You can change the opening characteristics of a canopy by using various packing techniques but the single most important control mechanism is the slider. The slider, while factory "optimized", isn't adjustable in any way. It sets up against the stops, it gets reset and that's it. Yeah there are subtle things you can do like cloverleaf or not, and a much larger impact on openings can be had by varying the amount of exposure of slider past the canopy nose. But the slider itself is in no way adjustable. Having the ability to tailor the slider to desired opening style or for hop and pops vs. freeflying or line shrinksge or whatever might be useful to some people. Maybe not for everyone but for some it might be a real advantage. Instead of reinventing the wheel how about just improving the one we have now? As usual, the more complex things are the riskier they become. Some are willing to make the trade, some are not. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Ah, very good. I wouldn't worry about the Safire fitting then, more a matter of the canopy selection but it wouldn't hurt to ask RI, I'm sure you wouldn't just order the Safire without trying it out anyway. I'd be surprised if you found a big difference between the Sabre-2 and Safire-2 of the same size but I don't have first-hand knowledge there. If you can't find canopies to borrow (don't be shy about asking around, people are generally willing to share) then demo's are the option. As far as asking here about the diifference between the two I'd start another post specifically addressing that. Assuming you can't dig up anything by doing a search of course. OTOH I have bought several used canopies from the classifieds, if I didn't like them I simply resold them. In hindsight demoing would have been generally a better choice though. But I did end up with a couple of keepers that way. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

The 2-pin Cypres is about an extra hundred bucks over a 1-pin. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Pack volume charts are pretty much useless. Do a search if you want to know why. The Safire-2 149 and Sabre-2 150 should have similar pack volumes. If you want specific information: Rigging Innovations 520-466-2655 Square-2 520-466-9566 More to the point, you bought a container without knowing what size canopies will fit and you're thinking of buying canopies that you probably haven't demoed. If you get demo canopies you can see if you like them and see how they pack in your container. Getting some help from someone at your DZ or a rigger might be useful too. Then again asking here is OK, you might find someone with your container size/canopy combo to help but you still won't get to fly the canopies. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

I'm a little reluctant to give advice about this, you can get hurt kiting. I always use a harness but you can do it just holding risers. Start with lighter winds then work up, talk to a paraglider pilot about using risers and reverse launching. If you kite strong winds you need to be able to do an instant cutaway without looking at your gear. Stay well away from objects donwind that will hurt you when you smash into them. BTW popsjumper I've never heard anyone being ridiculed for standing down in windy conditions, what a disrespectful and childish thing to do. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

I'm sure that you'll be amused to know that I had to cut away a canopy on the ground in high winds today. Not a skydive, I was kiting a 150 when a gust hit that would have drug me across a road and into a fence. I had just put the canopy up and got hit before I was ready, should have been using a smaller canopy. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Yep, you're right Andrew that is a factor and I enjoy your sarcasm. Jumping in wind creates elevated risk, you pays yer money and takes yer chances. Just like in the rest of skydiving it's a matter of risk tolerance. Landing under a reserve is still a matter of assessing conditions and using the skills you have. If you wouldn't fly your reserve in ANY conditions then you have no business jumping at all. FWIW I'd hook either of my reserves if it was appropriate. Another factor, one of many, is currency. I'm not very current so I act conservatively and vice versa. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Once again playing the role of devil's advocate....flying a wingsuit in hauling ass winds is a lotta fun, I've had ground speeds of 150 mph estimated. Also incredibly long cross-country flights are possible. Setting up landings upwind and hooking so you don't get blown backwards are useful techniques, front risers help too. Learning how to deal with higher winds is useful in case you need it someday. I'm definitely not suggesting that anyone put themselves in harm's way, everyone has their own wind limits and being conservative is rarely a bad idea. Turbulent conditions and low wingloading are red flags in high winds. For me if the pilot is willing then so am I. YMMV Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Main Canopy: Navigator 220 ft² (0.77 lbs/ft²) I had my first line twists yesterday after a hop and pop....5 or 6 twists. Kicked out of em easily though. Quote That really does crack me up.

I've never heard that wingloading contributes to slider hangups. BTW I agree with Travis that a tight chest strap helps the slider to come down. When my Precision slider won't come down (most of the time) I shake the rear risers together to get it to drop. My slider hangups are nowhere near as bad as yours though. A friend with a conopy and wingload identical to mine has been experiencing slider hangups, George had him cut a 4" hole in his slider to fix it, something I've been considering for a long time. I do NOT reccommend that you do this without getting advise from George at Precision, you should contact him ASAP, I'm sure he would be happy to help you out. Measure your slider so you can give George the dimensions, he can make sure that you have the correct slider for the canopy. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

In answer to your question about looseness you should be able to lift up your D-bag by the lines and the stows should not be released. You are trying to have tension of around 8-12 pounds on your line stows. Quote That "fact" has been debated here many times. If it were true then bandless bags wouldn't work. The locking stows obviously must be tight, all the others just have to keep the lines orderly. OTOH having 8-12 lbs. tension on the stows won't hurt anything either. Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Contact George at Precision, he'll find a solution for you. Slow sliders are common on Precision canopies from what I've seen. I assume you've looked carefully at the lines and grommets to ensure that there aren't any flaws. Sometimes you eat the bear..............