Sluggo_Monster

nitrochute, Thank you, now I’m beginning to see the reason for the statement. Now, what would motivate the rigger/DZ owner to pack a 28’ canopy in a container for a 26‘? Cost control because that’s what was laying around? Garage sale on the container and chute (hey, even if they don’t match, I can make them work)? See what I’m asking? Thanks, Sluggo Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

Gees 377, And I was afraid Ckret was going to find out that I knew H. Bruce Franklin in the late sixties. Man! You’re hard-core! BTW: I was on the last helicopter out of Saigon. The check is in the mail. And, of course, Southerners really do like Italian Opera. From: Someone who isn't that Sluggo guy Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

nitrochute, As you know I am an avowed WHUFFO. I have heard that statement from other experienced skydivers. Since you know skydiving and I don’t, I’m hesitant to argue with you. But I need help reconciling the logic. What I’m saying is; would Pacific Skysports have had a parachute sitting around, all packed and ready to go, that was in a state that could be described as a “hard/mpossible pull”? Help me understand. Sluggo Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

Since I started getting on the internet forums (or is the plural of “forum” “Fora”) I have been surprised, shocked, I’ve gotten my feelings hurt. I’ve been made to feel proud. I’ve felt like an outsider. I’ve wondered why certain people have said certain things. I have gotten discouraged and I have been encouraged. But, I have never been so disappointed as I am that only one person commented on my AF Guidance lecture that I posted last night. I’ve thought it over, and the only answer I have, is that nobody on this board has as many GPS receivers as I do, and has spent as much time as I have trying to understand the position algorithms that Garmin uses. Sluggo A man with a GPSr always knows EXACTLY where he is. A man with two GPSrs is NEVER really sure. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

I see it as very straight forward (why no tics before 19:54). 19:48 PST - Flt 305 reports 160 KIAS, which is about 5 knots above stall speed. Holding at 7,000 ft. [below radar] 19:48 PST - Flt 305 reports Flaps to 15 degrees and beginning climb to 10,000. [below radar] 19:51 PST - Flt 305 advises they are climbing to 10,000 ft. and are through 9,000 ft now. [Below Radar] 19:53 PST - Flt 305 reports level at 10,000 ft. with 170 – 180 KIAS [Above Radar] With the curvature of the earth, at 115 miles, I’m not sure that MT Hebo was the radar at that time. Sluggo_Monster Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

While pondering this altitude request thing, and reading Orange1’s response, I got to thinking about AGL vs. MSL in this specific case. How much difference would it make? So, since I had the previously published plots, I ran a profile on the actual route. Here’s what I got: Profile of 1971 path ALL.jpg This is the whole 85+ SM route from 19:54 PST to 20:18 PST. The points labeled should be self-explanatory. Because it is so compressed (on the x axis), I ran smaller segments. Profile of 1971 path 0-30.jpg The first 30 SM. Profile of 1971 path 30-50.jpg Approximately 30 to 50 SM Profile of 1971 path 50-70.jpg Approximately 50 to 70 SM Profile of 1971 path 65-85.jpg Approximately 65 to 85 SM. Ending with the point at 20:18 PST. Skydivers, please look at these and tell me if there is anything I should know about the elevation issues. I think not, I just want to cover all my (knowledge) basses, before I make a complete fool of myself. Thanks again, Sluggo_Monster Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

Where did you get this tid-bit? Sluggo Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

This message is targeted for skydivers only: If whuffos feel they must respond, that’s fine, but the skydivers have the expertise I am seeking. Please suspend all you know or think you know about NORJAK for just a minute. That includes the things you know or think you know about Cooper. For this exercise , just pretend you (with your personality, prejudices, world view, etc.) are Cooper. Now, please answer these questions: 1) If you were going to request an altitude to jump from a 727-51, what altitude would that be? Put any number here, no constraints, but please list any rationale for your response (safety, it gives me time to get stable, it gets me to the ground more quickly, etc) 2) Would you express that altitude as MSL or AGL? Again, any number, but state rationale. 3) Would you plan for freefall and if so how long? Time? Distance? Both? Just express it clearly for this whuffo… no, WHUFFO. Now quit being Cooper. 4) Is there anything about Cooper’s altitude request that strikes you as “odd” or “improper”? He requested 10,000 feet. (Whether he stated MSL, AGL or didn’t specify is lost at this time.) If your answer is “yes,” Please explain (in detail). You may answer here, or by e-mail n467us@charter.net. Thanks in advance for your help. Sluggo_Monster Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

snowmman, Your last post made me think about some training I had one time. Go HERE Sluggo EDIT: This is why I entered the field of "Instructional Technology". So I could design Training Materials for Guv'ment Agencies. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

I'm not a 727 Jockey, but I have been told: for heavy airplanes a standard rate turn is a 4-minute turn. Sluggo Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

Not that I'm aware of. For a while, back in March, I thought they might have circled the airport while climbing to altitude, But that wasn't the problem. Look at the file: Analysis of Legs.jpg posted above. Sluggo Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

Ooohhh I do love adoring fans, actually I have found you another 20 seconds, but I have some work to do before I can talk about it. All reported positions after 20:05 should have been 1 minute less. So they were aproximately 3.2 NM further south at 20:11. Ignoring a bunch of errors of course. With the times being only on even minutes ( not MM:SS) I don't think we are going to do any better. Soon it will be time for you to get all esoteric, and start that shit about cumulative error, standard deviations, Gaussian distributions, confidence limits, and 3-sigma errors. But at least we know someone dropped a minute. Sluggo Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

snowmman, Since no one else wants to play my game (or they haven’t had the opportunity), I’ll give you a big clue. I spent the night last night with these charts. I knew something was wrong with the timing of the jump point (I have suspected it since I started on my “Flight Path Model” back in March). I knew it was wrong, but I had no way to prove it. A 727 can’t fly at 97 knots. Then Ckret sent the chart and it is right there. You remember that old “shaggy-Dog story, where the punch line is “the missing brick”? Well, there is something missing here too. Look at this (Attached File) and ponder on it. Don’t get all esoteric, and start that shit about cumulative error, standard deviations, Gaussian distributions, confidence limits, and 3-sigma errors. Look at it like a farmer counting hay-bales. One is missing. So, after 4 years… the dog returns home… and guess what he’s got in his mouth? The missing minute. Sluggo Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

Guru312, snowmman has a story to tell, but he's shy, so you'll have to ask him, or he won't tell it. Ask snowmman who "really" found the money on Tena Bar on that cold... February,,, day. Was it little Cindy-Lou Who? Huh snowmman, you wanna tell us? Sluggo Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

I just noticed that 19:55 tic-mark has a time beside it. I changed it in the program, but I'm not going to run it again, now. Just see red when you look at the 19:55 pin. Sluggo EDIT: I uploaded the change. Make sure you are looking at "Analysis of Blank Error-3.jpg" Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

I think I have confused you snowmman. Look at the hi-res map. There are red tic-marks about every 3 NM. They start at 1954 and continue to the 4 SW of Portland (not included on my map). 19:54 has a red pin because it has “19:54 written by it. The next tic-mark does not have a time by it, so it is blue. When you get to 20:05 they are red pins again because they have times written by them. Then at 20:11 the times stop again, but the tic-marks continue at about the same interval. Does that explain it? Sluggo Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

There are red ticks, but because they don't have times by them they are blue pins. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

Okay Jr. FBI Agents, Uncle Sluggo has a test for you to see how sharp your (investigator) eyes are. This map (attached) is a plot of those little red tic-marks that snowmman was asking about. The red pins have times written next to them and the blue ones are just tic-marks with no times. So for the blue ones the time was based on the average length between the red ones and hence marked EST for ESTIMATED. But, low and behold, there is something wrong with them. See if you can spot it. I printed it on a blank background so you wouldn’t have eye distractions. If you think it will help, follow along with the Hi-res maps that Ckret released yesterday. First one to tell me what’s amiss, gets a free vacation trip, for them and their family to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba for the filming of a new reality TV show called; “Guantanamo Baywatch”. Sluggo Clarification: For the blue pins, the position is where the tick marks are. The time is assumed (estimated) to be 1 min intervals, because the red ones are. I uploaded an updated map with the 19:55 PST Pin the correct color (red). Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

Not FUNNY! Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

Boeing Field Service Directory Location Telephone Number Copenhagen (45) 3-232-4373 Dublin (353) 1-886-3086 East Midlands (44) 1-332-852412 Gatwick (44) 1293-510465 Geneva (BBJ) (4 ) 7867-507-317 Helsinki (358) 9-818-6450 London (LHR) (44) 20-8562-3151 Luton (Britinannia) (44) 1582-428-077 Luton (Monach) (44) 1582-525-869 Manchester (44) 1612-326-693 Oslo (47) 6481-6598 Stanstead (44) 1279-825638 Stavanger (47) 51-659-345 Stockholm (46) 8-797-4911 Tel Aviv (972) 3-9711147 Amsterdam (KLM) (31) 20-649-8100 Amsterdam (31) 20-648-4639 Athens (30) 1-988-0520 Brussels (32) 2-7234822 Luxembourg (352) 4211-3399 Madrid (34) 91-329-1755 Malpensa (39) 331-713-568 Olbia (39) 7-895-2612 Palma (PMI) (34) 971-789-782 Paris (CDG) (33) 1-4862-7573 Paris (OLY) (33) 1-4686-1047 Rome (39) 6-6501-0135 Tunis (216) 1-781-996 Zurich (41) 1-812-6816 Out Of Hours AOG Rapid Response Center If your Boeing field service representative cannot be reached. support is available 24 hours a day on the following Tel : (1)-206-544-7555 Fax : (1)-206-544-9084 My friend that gives me this stuff is British and talks funny, hence "Out of Hours". "Out of Hours" sounds like the hour-glass is about to be empty. AOG means "Aircraft On Ground" as in; "This damn thing won't fly!" Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

Before I say anything, let me state clearly; “What I am posting here represents ESTIMATES ONLY!” I have calibrated the 1971 Seattle Sectional, and I have plotted points where there was ample information to do so (from 19:54 through 20:11. When I publish those, I will stand behind them. However, these points are taken from tic-marks on the map that did not have times clearly associated with them. Using average ground speeds and other “PF Magic”, I have estimated the plane’s position from 20:12 through 20:18 PST. I am doing this because he helps envision what Ckret was saying in an earlier post. The file: 1971 ESTIMATES RED.jpg is plotted over the 1971 Seattle Sectional. The File: 2008 ESTIMATES RED.jpg is plotted over a current Seattle Sectional. Notice the difference in the light pattern. Sluggo EDIT Added: Sorry The Numbers are hard to read they start at 20:12 and end at 20:18. If Cooper Bailed at 20:14 or 20:15, AND survived the jump, he was "Home Free." Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

All, Some guy named Special Agent Lawrence D Carr sent me some information that will allow me to complete my current project. I plan to pull an “all nighter” tonight and see how far I can get. (Sugar is out-of-town, so, I’m allowed to stay up past my bedtime.) I have no idea who this Special Agent Lawrence D Carr is, but he seems to know Ckret pretty well (and boy did he say some bad things about him). Before he would give me the stuff, he made me swear on my mother’s grave that I would post it on my web site. I refused… Not because I wasn’t willing… just because my Mother isn’t dead! Instead, I did the “pinky-swear” thing and he gave me the stuff. You will find it {HERE }. It is two JPEGs, that are portions of the 1971 Seattle Sectional that has the Flight 305 flight path marked on it. There is a link below each one for a higher resolution version that you can download. I really wanted to keep these charts to myself so I would look smarter than everybody else (knowledge is power and all that stuff) but Special Agent Lawrence D Carr, said I had to share. You know those FBI guys, Fidelity, Bravery, and Integrity. That’s right there on their seal. I just can’t take that integrity part. Anyway, you may not be as excited about this as I am, but check it out anyway. You may find something that has been missed in the past. Thanks Ckret, U ‘da man! Sluggo Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

At sometime on Reel 5 there is a discussion about the stuff Boeing sent. Part of that was how to escape from the front of the aircraft in a hurry (pre-bomb, post-bomb, I don’t know). GC expresses that Cooper may have the same procedure (knowledge). It is my belief, that there was a hastily assembled procedure in with all the charts and stuff brought onto the airplane with the food. That’s my impression, I would have to look it up, and I’m dis-inclined to do that now. You’ll see why in my next post. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

6:40 PM PST: Pilot: Reading the proposed procedure, [it] says the stairs will open about 20 degrees at 120 knots. Is that enough for an individual to get out? MSP Flt OPS: With him on [the stairs], [the stairs] will open possibly for him to get out. Remain unpressurized, be [in] landing configuration with flaps [down]. Slow to [approach to landing] speed before [you] try to extend the stairs. Continue slow[ing] to threshold speed. Try with either gear up and if unable with gear down. 6:59 PM PST Msp Flt Ops: You should have no control problems when the stairs are extended. [There] may be some slight pitch-up, but very controllable. The plane [727] has been flown this way. Have had large boxes of 200 to 300 lbs [pushed] through the door in this configuration. Must be down with landing flaps [probably meant landing gear, by context], speed is not to critical, any flap position, between 5 and 40 degrees, and any speed down to 120 knots. I don’t have [pitch] angle yet, but I’m working on it. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

Wonder what that little “Cone” is on the bottom of the tail section (see take-off video)? Tailskid If there is cases of over rotation on take off it's this that will first contact the runway. It is equipped with an energy absorber, which consists of a cylinder with a crushable honeycomb core in the upper half. The core is replaceable. An indicator clip is riveted to the strut and attached to a wire. When the clip is sheared off by compression of the tailskid, it will be retained by the wire and a red area beneath the clip will be exposed to indicate that the core has been crushed. Operation is by the electrical system and extends when the landing gear lever is in the down position and the outboard flaps have been lowered 15 deg or more. It retracts when the gear lever is placed in the up position. It has it's own warning light on the flight engineers door annunciator panel and comes on when there is a disagreement with the landing gear lever in the up or down positions. Good video for illustration purposes, thanks. Sluggo Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum