hackish

If one really wanted to test out the limp body theories then you just need a friend who works with crash test dummies. Unfortunately they're very expensive but they do have all the proper skeletal and joint structures to act like a knocked out human. -Michael

It's your rig to maintain as you choose. Get your rigger to look at the risers and see what they need. Your rigger can install whatever is needed to stow the excess brake line properly. If it were my rig then it would already be fixed with some of the tru-lock toggles. This one is a rental and it's on loan to the DZ so there isn't much that can be done. As for what could be done I think a small loop on the back side of the risers would be sufficient. -Michael

Brake fire accounted for my first cutaway at jump #29. The lineslack caused a tension knot above the cascades and full opposite toggle wouldn't make ti fly straight. This is one thing that I don't like about the sabre 210 I fly. The toggle system does not have a very neat arrangement for stowing the extra line. The student rigs have little velcro flaps where you can stow the extra before laying the toggles on their velcro strips. Neat and effective enough but requires some maintenance. A little closer to topic when your rigger does the re-pack they do they also check things out like your brake system to make sure things are not worn and susceptible to this problem? -Michael

As a point of curiosity is there an established procedure for unwrapping the gift? I tried the search feature as it's no doubt been discussed before but couldn't find any more than "gift suggestions" Since I've never been wrapped and hope to never be I don't know what challenges there would be - ie how hard it would be to just try and brute force hand over hand the nylon until you're out. I don't even know how easy it would be tangled in your canopy to bend over so you could kiss you ass goodbye. -Michael

I can remember doing 15 loads in a day. That would have been tandems and fun jumpers so some would have gotten off at 3500 but most at 11k. While I personally don't have experience in this area the discussion has gone on a lot at my DZ and I've paid attention. We've got the 182 widebody with the 300hp engine upgrade and a nice 3 blade prop. It also has wingtip extensions and a few other STCs but I don't remember what they are. The engine upgrade makes a big difference in climb rate and therefore how many loads you can do. The pilot also makes a big difference as one of our pilots is like 4-5 minutes quicker to the ground. On a full fuel load (48gallons maybe) the weight and balance allowed 4 passengers. On that load I observed about 500fpm of climb rate on my altitrack. I'm sure you could find published specs on this. So that's about 20min +/- up to 11k. If I recall correctly it's about 35-40min round trip. I can't tell you any of the other stats but I suspect the tandem loads is entirely location specific. Tandems are usually non-regular customers and you'd have different numbers according to the success of your advertising/networking. -Michael

The idea of having the canopy out detection system disable the lower descent rate deployment feature is that it would have a failure mode no worse than using a normal AAD. An open flap making it think the canopy was already out would merely make it behave like every other AAD on the market. The concerns I can see are: a) landing with the plane without disabling the feature or the AAD would cause a false fire 100% of the time. b) the deactivation feature would have to be reliable enough that main deployment would always cause deactivation. c) integrated enough into the rig that the user does not need to perform any more steps - thus it adds no more complexity for the user. Finally I believe the automatic flare device proposed above has been made totally unnecessary by a new and radical reserve parachute that does not require any flaring. I believe a picture of it can be found on 6.2.14 of the poynter manual. I believe this new invention was named the Piglet XL-30. You should go ahead and try it. -Michael

I learned a lot reading the Canopy and it's Pilot by Brian Germain. It covered not only the technical details but the advanced techniques. -Michael

I too have been looking for a good beginner-intermediate canopy. I was drawn to PD only because the student rig made my PD flew the nicest of all the ones I tried. I think it's nice to see companies involved in the community. Now I'll have to see what else is offered even though nobody around me owns anything made by aerodyne -Michael

Well I saw you land the canopy you fly and it seemed to go well enough. You've seen me land the 210 within 10m or so of the target repeatedly. Last weekend I just about fell on my ass because I landed on the target - not a great idea it was slippery. I borrowed Dan's canopy and believe it or not it was Mo who suggested it. Andre said he'd let me try his 190 Sabre2 and I know he wants to sell the entire rig. I'm just concerned about finding the right thing to buy as I'll no doubt be spending a lot of time on it. I already got signed off on my "A" for everything but the RW so that's my main concern before we close up for the year. Unfortunately there are no other rigs around and able to be borrowed unless MH rents any intermediate rigs. -Michael

If you look at the licensing progression it calls for whatever license to participate in this or what. It also requires specific skydiving and canopy skills to be accomplished and signed off. For example I can't do a snow jump or a night jump on my S license. I'm also not allowed to do any relative work unless it's a C2 on the RW portion of my "A". I'm sure in the US you have similar requirements. Why not then have specific CoPs necessary for camera work, wingsuit or whatever? -Michael

The whole idea was based on wingsuit flight and I don't really know anything about that, I just looked at what people were saying on that incident thread about an AAD may not have fired anyway. I have heard of AAD saves because of loss of altitude awareness. I have no interest in designing and marketing AADs so I just tossed the idea out to the public. -Michael

The post was as I stated to get opinions of what canopy would have the characteristics I described. I knew that there would be attacks by the same people but if you filter that out and read some of the PMs I got I did manage to get some really good advice. Thanks to those who sent the PMs. Obviously they don't want to anger anyone by not joining the "you're going to die" crew. Sadly it's a lose lose situation. If you downsize and people tell you that you'll die and you don't you become lucky. If you do injure yourself then it becomes a big told-ya-so. Suppose I died tomorrow from a no-pull I'm sure it would go down in the records as another idiot who died from downsizing or whatever. If I can find a canopy that flies as I like without the annoyances of the PD210 then I'll probably buy it. The reason I'm trying to work it out now is that I'd buy a complete rig with the canopy I want. Unlikely that I could afford anything new. Maybe that will be a spectre 210. Maybe it will be a sabre 2 190. People aren't complaining about the 210 I'm flying. Since everyone got on the you're an idiot bandwagon I think they forgot that I'm trying to figure out what to get here. Yes I tried the 170 and I liked how it flew but it's just too fast for me. Unfortunately many have assumed because I tried one that's what I want to get. -Michael

http://www.cypres2.com/userguide/CYPRES_2_users_guide_english.pdf I didn't want to pollute this discussion with something off topic so I posted up my AAD idea here. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2967089;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread Just to clarify not trusting something to save my life what I mean is that I'm not going to fly at the ground and let the AAD pull for me. For the record when I get my own rig I'll be getting an AAD and a skyhook or RSL. -Michael

I believe the dominant effect is the change of AoA on the side of the canopy which explains the dive associated with a toggle turn. I did a 360 spiral on the front and my instructor indicated he would sign it off. I wasn't able to hold the riser down the entire spiral but enough that it was completed by the time the riser was released. -Michael

Haha, hence my desire to try the sabre2 190. I'm told that the spectre and sabre are completely different in terms of eliptical and the fact one is a 7 and one is a 9 cell. There is also a spectre 210 and I'm sure there must be someone around who has tried the sabre 210, spectre 170 and everything in between who can answer my query. Maybe the spectre 210 is still too advanced. I don't want to spend the coin and find that out. -Michael

First let me say I'm technical in nature. I understand some of the aerodynamics and physics but I'm not a wingsuit flyer and it's unlikely that I will be for years. However... http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=2965379;page=4;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25; Here is a link about a WS flyer not equipped with an AAD who died with a no-deploy. Some comments were made by wingsuit flyers that the descent rate could be much too low for an AAD activation. My AAD experience is limited to reading the manuals of the vigil and the cypress as well as looking at a fired cutter to understand how they work. As I understand the logic they decide based on a descent rate and altitude if you're going down too fast and at a certain altitude they will fire if the criteria is met. The vigil is switchable between student, expert and tandem which adjusts the fall rate for activation and the activation altitude. The cypress is purchased specific to it's final use. Same idea. As an option I suggest the following which would be suitable for the lower descent rates experienced by WS flyers. The AAD should always deploy if the wearer has not activated their main canopy by a given altitude regardless of their fall rate. Riding the plane down would therefore make it 100% imperative that the AAD be deactivated. So add an option to detect deployment of the main. There are a few options I considered - thinking on the fly here. Pick one or more - they're just ideas with some shortcomings. a) have a metallic patch on one or both of the risers and have a small metal detector sewn on the closing flaps. I'd like magnetic with a reed switch but I know some of the new containers are using magnets instead of velcro. The idea here is that it would require no different procedure for the packer and the main risers leaving the container would then deactivate the AAD. b) Have a means of determining that the PC is still stowed. Being away from the flaps you could use something magnetic. This still does not account for a PC in tow but using the descent rate feature of the AAD may overcome that situation. c) Have a pressure sensitive ring for attaching the main closing loop. On deployment the closing loop will no longer have tension and therefore the descent rate "ignore" feature would be disabled as soon as the main pin is pulled. d) Have a small tab that is attached to the risers and disconnects a small switch on deployment to disable the "ignore" feature. I don't like this because it requires the packers to know about it and do something different. So basically the WS AAD would function as follows. If the altitude is below X and the main has not been deployed then fire. If the descent rate is above Y and the altitude below X then fire despite the main deployment (they may have cut it away). So maybe I'm way off here but it's just an idea. Maybe an AAD manufacturer will want to do it - go ahead if it ever saves a life I'm happy. If it's a dumb idea I'm sure I'll hear about it. -Michael

You're not serious, right? Read that thread very carefully. Extremely experienced people offering valuable commentary. An AAD may or may not have been valuable. An audible can't pull. I am seldom not serious when I ask questions like this. Some people add valuable details others just sit back telling me I'm an idiot who doesn't know what he's asking questions about. By definition that's why I ask questions. Facts are helpful but your commentary about how little I know seldom is. As for the incident thread there are now 3 more pages of comments. I'll start another thread about an idea it spawned about AAD activation. Could any of the AAD or audible helped? I wouldn't trust my life to an audible nor would I completely trust my life to an AAD pulling for me but I'll trust that they could both improve my chances. -Michael

In the canopy and its pilot it is explained that line slack often causes the parachute to move fast without taking the jumper with it. Others have already pointed out the surge of it reinflating fast can make it dive. I've had one experience in this area. On opening the brakes both came undone. The canopy surged forward causing slack lines and a nice little tension knot. That was my first and only reserve ride but as I grabbed and buried the toggles I seriously wondered if the canopy was going to go below me. What it did is not unlike letting the toggles up too fast after stalling. -Michael

I read the incident report when someone told me via PM that someone he knew was killed because he flew a wingsuit. I did not want to be disrespectful in the incident thread but I questioned myself if the wingsuit had anything to do with this incident. No AAD. No audible. Hit the ground without deploying the main or the reserve. It is sad to see anyone go but I question if it was the wingsuit or just loss of altitude awareness. Just throwing it out there. -Michael

I'm not telling you what you should do - consider this and talk to ye olde instructors. I'm a newbie too. For me I got a book on canopy control and read it. I studied the theory behind canopy piloting then pummelled everyone with questions and got them to all watch and pick apart my landings. Soon I was landing close to the target and standing up just about every time. There is a lot of technical info out there and a lot to understand. If you can understand the theory and put it into practise it may help you as it helped me. Last weekend I finally managed to land on the target - maybe not a great idea as it was slippery. Followed that up with 2 more standups within 5m. When I do land on my butt I usually go through the landing again a few times and try to figure out what was off. -Michael

The point was not to rush. The point was to try out a different canopy and see how much more aggressive it was than the 210. The point of this post was to get ideas for a canopy. Here I hoped to get the suggestions and impressions of dozens of other canopies. I wrote about what I liked and didn't about the 210 and 170. The latter is too fast but I liked the way it handled. I dislike the 210 I'm flying. The dual brake lines are a pain, it does not ever seem to open on heading. Since I started packing it like PD said it's at least opening in less than 1200' but usually opens off heading unless I'm really aggressive in the harness and with the toggles. Sometimes I feel like I'm wrestling a bull as it opens. The student rigs will probably be the only thing available for rental next year and there just doesn't seem to be anything else to do on those blimps. Overall I loved the way the spectre 170 responded to my inputs it was just too fast and I'd like something in the middle of the 210 and that. For the downsizing article I can already do most of what they list. The only opportunity I had for a downhill landing was under a raven reserve so I don't know if that counts but I did set down well enough. I haven't tried the front riser landing swoop they suggest as I think it's beyond me. I have been playing around front-risering little cloud whisps when they are available... softer than the ground :P All said and done I'm still having lots of fun under the 210 but need to find something new for next year. This post was never intended to be about me buying a spectre 170 more about what middle ground there is. -Michael

I agree whole-heartedly with that. I still do take the time to listen to what the e-structors have to say but at the end of the day my instructor has seen me progress through 38 of my 39 jumps and his years of experience and judgment of what he has seen hold a lot more weight. I got to try this 170 under ideal conditions and flew it conservatively. I set it down safely within a few meters of the target after flying the proper pattern in a safe manner. I'm not planning to jump it regularly but that was my experience with it and I wrote about it and asked my questions of the members here. Many people have had injuries under similar and larger canopies. I keep that in mind every time I jump. The ground doesn't care how many jumps you have. I may end up injuring myself I may not - that is the nature of skydiving - if I'm not willing to challenge myself what's the point of doing it? For the future I want to try the sabre2 190 and see if the rig fits. If it's close enough in flight characteristics to the 210 and the rig fits then I may consider purchasing it over the winter and spending 100 or so jumps on that. If not then I'll see what else there is out there and try a few before committing to buy something. -Michael

Thanks guys, I appreciate the good advice. Even though I did like the way the 170 obeyed my commands very quickly I felt the need to fly it conservatively. Ever walk on eggshells around a bitchy woman? Same idea. I was still able to put it where I wanted and land 20 or so meters from the target. I don't think as some were suggesting that I'm an idiot with a death wish. The 210 I'm flying does not belong to the DZ and after this year it will become unavailable. There are 2 more weeks of jumping so I may be able to make 50 jumps before things shut down for the winter. After that comes the difficult decision of finding the rig I will buy and fly for a good amount of time. My rigger has already indicated that he feels I would be okay trying his sabre 2 190 so I may also try that. It was important for me to try something a little more sporty - I'm not interested in proving anything to anyone else - only that I'd like to see where I stand in the progression of things so I can choose the correct canopy. The spectre 170 is too agressive, the sabre 210 has some annoyances that push me away - namely the PITA dual brake lines crappy toggles and inconsistent openings. There has to be a good middle ground in here and that's what I'm working on finding. It would be nice to have something bigger and slower that still responds as well as the spectre. On the sabre 210 today I managed to come in carrying a bit of speed (no I wasn't trying). Carried about 25' with my feet brushing in the grass and ran out the last little bit. That was fun and I enjoyed it but I'd be in heaven if I could get something to fly like this that didn't feel sluggish. -Michael

Let's skip the useless comments on my canopy skills I can apparently fly and land well enough on the 280's and the 210 not to get myself hurt. I also successfully flew this 170 without any scary moments. Every time I've read about it online everyone said no, don't do that, you'll surely die. There's no way you could ever land that at your experience level. Yet in real life it was more touchy and yes I flew it conservatively but it was no super-hard uber-skills needed. So that leaves me with trying to understand more about the little exposure I gained. Yes it reacted quickly and no you don't want to do the wrong thing with the toggles and yes you have to be careful with the flare. Is it only on this basis that the canopy is not appropriate for a novice? Or is there a big can of worms that could have been opened if I had tried some crazy spirals or hard toggle inputs? For the record I don't feel that my instructors put me in danger nor do I feel that I was up past my bedtime under this thing. Kinda like the 18 year-old who got to take the ferarri for a putt putt around the block. I just do want to understand what the comments are based on. -Michael

Everyone agreed that I would be able to handle the 170, that included my instructor and several others with a lot of experience. They all gave me a detailed briefing on how to handle it and indeed, while it was a step up from the sabre 210 it wasn't this amazingly fast or uber-hard to fly. I'm not anxious to switch to a 170 for a while yet - maybe a 190 next year but I'm wondering how that spectre compares - intermediate -> expert -> insane. I guess I was just surprised after all I've read on here about jump numbers and downsizing that it wasn't hard to fly or land - you just had to pay attention to what you were doing. -Michael