hackish

When we removed some that had been installed 20 years on a PC I backed the screws out about 2 turns and used a big bench vise with some soft aluminum jaws so as not to damage the l-bar housing. Also important to make sure you don't unscrew it too many turns or you will just destroy the threads. I also found that a transfer punch fit inside the screw hole to knock them apart. It's tough to do without damaging the lines so I found the vise squeeze trick worked the best. -Michael

Holy crap, talk about hitting the water at linestretch. Unfortunately one of those pilots did not make it. Maybe they need a skyhook for airplanes. (Static lines?) -Michael

I've always worn a belt on my jumps. Only the latter ones were done with a jumpsuit. I think it may depend on what sort of belt you have as mine is really thick and the running end is not likely to come out. I suppose it could be a snag issue if you're really unstable but I've never been told my attire was not acceptable. -Michael

The talk of zip ties on the handles came out because I've heard and read about it more than once. I suppose even with a zip-tied silver the RSL will probably still work. Probably. -Michael

Yes, this is one point I was thinking about. I know some people disagree with that evaluation and some even made fun of my suggestion that people were standing up because they felt the snatch force and broke the arch in anticipation of an opening. Now about that $1000 challenge that a baglock couldn't make me fall slower... If I had a lot more experience and a rigger-b I'd consider doing up a rig to test it out... -Michael

I believe you'd be right on that point. I remember reading in poynter somewhere that the friction buckles were originally designed to work with ty-13 and some other webbing... just can't remember now what the other webbing was. Another point - I just looked it up. ty-7 is 0.060-0.10" thick while ty-13 is 0.080"-0.120" thick. Maybe the problem comes specifically from the sample of type 7 they used being on the thin side? For curiosity sake does the OP have a means of measuring the thickness? -Michael

Discussing it with the local aerobatic pilot I asked if a flat spin was recovered by application of power to pull yourself out of it. Sometimes that can be the right answer in a car. I was surprised that the right answer was to reduce power. Learn a few new things every day... -Michael

When I stopped saying bad words instructor asked me if I kept the cutaway cable. I told him plainly you taught us to pull it out and throw it away so that's what I did. He nodded and said you did the right thing. I know deep down he was thinking that I should have kept it but I suspect that sort of thing comes with experience. Next time if I can I'll keep them (hoping I have to wait 1000 jumps for that) but one's primary concern should be saving themselves. It is considered bad form to go in without all your handles pulled. -Michael

Yes there is a MEC in Ottawa and I was just there a week ago, saw a bag that looked very much like that and was thinking to myself that would be great for a rig. The talk of zip-tying your handles in to make sure they're not accidentally pulled is a little scary if you happened to forget them. I was thinking of sticking a temp pin in so you couldn't miss it when you do your equipment check/turn on your AAD. -Michael

I think the point is that most of our friction hardware originated from the old military stuff and although it works it was never designed specifically for type 7 webbing. If you look at a piece of type 6 (hope I remember this correctly) webbing or type 13 you see how much thicker it is than the type 7. Some manufacturers have used the thinner stuff on their legstraps and the like because of price. -Michael

Sorry, I usually just click the "reply" on the top corner and then delete the user's name from the subject. My comments were not directed specifically at you. I don't think rinsing a reserve would affect it's usefulness or reliability in any way provided your rigger does it properly. Although nylon loses some of its strength when wet it regains it again upon drying. The whole discussion is entirely just that - I'm not in an area likely to see a salt contaminated rig anyway. I think Rob makes a good point about letting the water stand overnight. Of course that could make rinsing a rig a very lengthy process. I also like the idea of neutralising the chlorine but I'd be scared about the effect of the aquarium chemical what exactly happens to the chlorine? -Michael

I remember being told by Rob that some styles of friction adapter are not entirely compatible with all webbing because of the difference in thickness - let's say between type 7 and type 13. If I'm correct SunPath stitches a piece of type 8 to their type 7 legstraps to increase the thickness and thus avoid this type of slippage. Now I'm just a newbie (bored at work) in this area but it might be a point in the right direction. -Michael

I had a discussion this weekend about this incident while at the airport. The discussion was with a very experienced aerobatic pilot and he brought it up. His opinion was that this pilot caused an embarrassing situation for all aerobatic pilots because of lack of experience in dealing with a flat spin. I just think it's nice that he walked home rather than being carried to rest. What do the pilots think of the situation? -Michael

Chlorine is known to attack the spectra lines. I can't remember what its effect is on nylon but I do remember seeing it in Poynter. As someone else has explained the damage done by salt is from the crystals cutting the strands so by not moving it significantly you probably won't hurt it as you pick it up and lay it in the degassed tub. I suppose you could probably remove the main and reserve and wash them separately in your distilled water. A rig is damn expensive so if you spend $50 on water cleaning it - so what? -Michael

My interest in this subject is about a baglock and if it really makes you fall faster. The EPs are very clear - cut it away and break that nice little red sealing thread... That's why I note the only thing I see about a baglock is that finding the main will be a little harder 'cause if I have one it's gonna be gone before you can say oh shit. People keep saying ask my instructors. None of my instructors have ever had a baglock and most aren't concerned with what it does or doesn't do - just to get rid of it and execute the EP's correctly. The point of this thread is in understanding the dynamics of the situation. If you are unavoidably stood up or if people stand up as a reaction to feeling the snatch force. I assume billvon is joking when he suggests that one should stay a little head-down in case you have a baglock - that's silly and beside the point. Clearly it's not something that has ever researched and presented or discussed. It probably has little or not impact on the EPs - just my desire to understand the technical details as fully as I can. -Michael

From a simple EP point of view a baglock to me just means that I might have a little more trouble finding it. I asked someone with considerably more experience and know-how than most mortals. He directed me to a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSd_EbVUNAg Around 4:30 you see an intentionally baglocked configuration on a test jumper. The PC fully inflates and pulls the bag up but you don't see an appreciable increase in descent rate. I'm surprised that the jumper wasn't pulled upright. I know it's only one example but maybe this means that standing up during a baglock is an avoidable condition initiated by the jumper's expectation of an opening shock and inflating main. -Michael

Is it possible to get a mod to split the baglock speed portion of the discussion off and move it to gear and rigging? I'm interested in knowing more about it but it does wander away from the direction of this thread. As for the PCIT situation I'd agree with what you think. Most feel the "standing up" from a baglock will cause the resulting speed increase. I don't have enough aerodynamic knowledge to answer that question but from my understanding it will be the main difference between the two situations. I've had a little discussion about the effect of the burble on the PC drag but without real world tests it's pretty hard to evaluate. If I were a rigger B with a few thousand jumps and time to burn I'd love to hook up a PC as a tandem drogue to evaluate the drop in fallrate. I'd love to hook up a fake baglock on the front rings of a tandem rig to figure out the fallrate of a baglock situation. Unfortunately some of these things can really only be answered by researchers in the field. -edit reworded for clarity- -Michael

Probably built up pressure/vacuum that's just locked in there. I've heard that sometimes when things have pressure applied to them (ie an almost blocked passageway) they tend to swell shut. I'm no doctor or anything so what I say could be entirely wrong... You could try chewing a lot of gum and see if that helps - worked for me once. Once again I'm no doc so if your head explodes don't blame me!!! :) -Michael

Wow, doesn't the 3 ring manufacturer recommend that you disconnect and flex the webbing once a month? I could be wrong as to where I read it but I was pretty sure about that. Are you 100% sure that requires a rigger? Here in Frozen Wasteland to the North the 3 ring is not considered part of the certificated parachute so I believe a non-rigger is allowed to do it. -Michael

I think the answer is fairly simple. You guys do live in a democracy. Don't jump at skyride owned dropzones and if your home DZ accepts their certificates make it clear that you won't jump there until they stop accepting them. If nobody takes their business to them and skyride coupons are not redeemable anywhere then won't the problem just go away? -Michael

Oops, you're right. Here in Canada they're BSRs - I keep forgetting all the differences between countries. I don't think we even need TSO'd equipment here... Base rigs have been jumped from a plane before (not at a DZ). The question I had for them once they landed was "are those things good for a terminal opening?" As if someone packed his own defective reserve and then tried to sue someone else for it. -Michael

Hmm. Good point. I suppose jumping a BASE rig out of a plane doesn't exactly conform to all the BSRs does it? Was he jumping the rig at the DZ or just asking to have it packed? -Michael

Please speak to one of your instructors before you jump again. It might save your life. Wow I feel like I'm being patronized. However nobody was able to add to what my instincts had said so I took some initiative to research a little further. I'm not trying to be an ass, I'm just not convinced that you fall faster with a baglock. Poynter I P 341 gives a chart of common drag forces at 120mph. Most are antique but I couldn't find anything published and more recent. A grabber 30" exerts 121lbs of drag force. A wonderhog (aka vector) hand-deploy put out 128lbs of drag. With ZP pilot chutes they are smaller but I suspect the pull forces will be similar. I did some searching and found that mjosparky had tested a 27" ZP PC and maxed out a 100lb scale at 95mph. Now it is probably obvious why I feel that a baglock will slow a freefaller down... So the PC is out, pulls the bag up but it remains closed. Putting anywhere between 100 and 140lbs of pull on the bad and jumper - I can see that standing them up. In head-down position let's assume you go 180mph and belly to earth you go 120. That is a 60mph change. Apply 100lbs of drag to you. I'm fairly confident that the 60mph change just became a negative number. As I said originally I may be entirely wrong but the figures I've found here seem to support my position. Can anyone add anything to this discussion? -Michael

Perhaps something could be learned. Perhaps there would be a blip in the descent rate when the jumper tossed. If we found that very close to the activation altitude it would go a long way toward explaining the details we do know at this point. Then it might be a low pull and not a baglock. I would venture to say that in my opinion ignoring a source of data like that would be irresponsible. Get the data then decide it can't possibly help but don't ignore the data before reviewing it. -Michael

I used to think the repack was so your reserve didn't get all stuck together and wouldn't want to open... At least that's what I was told by some presumably uninformed fellow skydivers. I read an interesting article in Poynter that showed the average time to open for a parachute versus the storage time. It showed that the amount of time increased the most in the first 20-30 days and after that the rate didn't change significantly for years. Based on that I do think that the real issue is not the reserve but the general inspection that goes along with a repack. So if this is the case then probably the relevant thing is to look at the total number of equipment malfunctions rather than reserve related mals. Just a somewhat uneducated opinion... -Michael