jumpin_Jan

Sluggo, I have a question for you. Based on your studies, what time range would the exit need to be to put DBC in the watershed upstream of the money? would 20:20 PST do it? re: et al Not to worry, I use psychedelic paint on my wide brush. :) PULL! jumpin_Jan "Dangerous toys are fun but ya could get hurt" -- Vash The Stampede

I agree with the not every weekend part. Cooper did not do it often though, only once. Have a look in the 'Incidents' threads. Experienced jumpers have been know to jump, situations beyond their abilities, borrowed gear, unfamiliar aircraft, unfamiliar DZ, poor weather conditions. It happens! Sometimes with fatal results and sometimes it's no problem. PULL! jumpin_Jan "Dangerous toys are fun but ya could get hurt" -- Vash The Stampede

^^^ what he said^^^ PULL! jumpin_Jan "Dangerous toys are fun but ya could get hurt" -- Vash The Stampede

What penalty to the DZ for missing a scheduled lift? PULL! jumpin_Jan "Dangerous toys are fun but ya could get hurt" -- Vash The Stampede

I have a kill line pilot chute that is on a bridle with a retractable 'curved' pin. If the pilot chute is not cocked there will be no pin to close the container! (to the packers dismay) Is this widely available/known? Has a flaw been found in the idea/design that I am unaware of? In my mind, this is a solution to a negative aspect of kill line pilot chutes. It's not a new idea, my bridle is 10-13 years old. It was designed/custom made by Perry Thibadaux(sp) and was semi-common at Skydive North Georgia back in the 90's. I have not seen another similar design in my travels or read about same on the net. comments? PULL! jumpin_Jan "Dangerous toys are fun but ya could get hurt" -- Vash The Stampede

What makes you think I'm out to "prove" anything? I think that because you are conducting 'experiments' to determine float time(s). I think proving things is a good idea!!! I think your static experiments do not represent dynamic conditions at all. I don't think floating is even necessary. When you determine the float time I will ask how much it weighs underwater. (need data on TDS, specific gravity ranges, PH, etc.) Then we can calculate aproximate sunken friction and forces needed to overcome same. (weight/Surface area/flowrate) The flowrate to include 0-whatever max is in steepest gully during 'gully washer'. Then we add in dynamic uneven surface on bottom and calculate turbulence. Then we add in debris like logs, sticks, and leaves in the fall. I don't think we/I/or you can get any more precise than upstream within the watershed somewhere Nature managed to move tons of sand to the same spot from the same watershed. A more general answer to the question of "why do you think..." I am in the _not_ DW camp and I naturally question the data that is or can be misused to support that theory. I don't expect or demand that you agree with me though. PULL! jumpin_Jan "Dangerous toys are fun but ya could get hurt" -- Vash The Stampede

"The question I'd like to get to eventually is, what type of container?" Trojan Your posts lead me to believe that your goal is to prove human placement years later. Occams razor suggests otherwise IMneverHO. You can't cherry pick natural causes to support human placement and ignore natural causes for transport. (actually you can, but it ain't forensics) Good luck with that! PULL! jumpin_Jan "Dangerous toys are fun but ya could get hurt" -- Vash The Stampede

I am passionate, but I am also objective. The FBI is the one with the set mind. How many times have I asked them to produce something that proves he wasn't Cooper? Objective - I look for things to prove to myself that Duane was not Cooper - so far anything that has presented itself has been ruled out. I see only two alternatives at this time. One of course is just to let it all go and the other is to use the one avenue of pursuit that I have not wanted to use because of the embarrassement it would cause my family. I had the plan in place before that chute was found and I held off because I thought I might not need to go the course, To find a private investigator that I could afford and that could do it all in a short period of time - he doesn't exist. It would take 24/7 for over a yr just to go thru the mass accumulation of paper, tapes, emails, photos and documents - to pick and choose what he (probably a ninja turtle who doesn't even know who Cooper was and too young to think 1971) wants to check out. He then would need to travel to check out some of it and need the expert opinion of various professionals. I don't have that kind of time or money. Anyone know Donald Trump? Maybe the forum can talk him into vesting into this - he can afford it. By the way I think I found Duane's daughter - if it is her she died in 2005 at the age of 59. Sending for a death notice to see who the mother and father was. I cannot make things I held in my own hands and saw with my own eyes go away - if I could replay those memories back like a video camera - the world would know that I am not crazy - that I have been objective and UPfront. Is there not something that you remember in your life that you will never forget - but no one was there to see it, but you and no one is alive that might have been there and could verify your story. Perhaps you were molested as a child and too young and afraid to tell anyone. Someone told you a secret and that person died, but no one believes that person would ever do such a thing, but he showed you Proof that he did. Imagine your frustrations when you tried to tell someone and they treated you like you had lost it - that you weren't all there. How would you feel if they talked about you in front of their children and you are just going about your business and a child points and says 'There's that Crazy Woman." I know what I know and NO one can take that away from me. Maybe Duane played a cruel joke on me but - that is the only other explanation and seems illogical since it took 17 yrs before he got to the punch line and then I didn't "get" it. You nor anyone else has walked in my shoes during the 17 yr marriage and the 13 yrs since his death, but maybe the FBI needs to put themselves or their loved one in my shoes. What if it happened to them? If it were not for my strong background regarding right and wrong - I would have let this go a long time ago. Because of the things I saw and heard prior to his confession - I will never be able to let it go...until someone puts something in my hands that proves he was not Cooper. Lemme see if I understand you Jo. The only 'proof' the FBI can't or won't produce. They are meanies. You can't afford a PI. If _could_ afford a gumshoe you are the most qualified person anyways so why not use the self professed expert. Oh! one more thing, you have a trump card but it will embarass your family so it will never be held up for public scruitny. (only to be disclosed to persons signing an NDA?) Did I get that right? "Dangerous toys are fun but ya could get hurt" -- Vash The Stampede

I'm not supposed to tell you this but, He was a renegade double naught! He saw the chase planes. He took money, a flare, suspension line, and a pilot chute, and made a thermal decoy that would also drop money as it burned. (rate of descent unknown) He spotted from the rear side windows using reflected moonlight, highways/car lights, also staying warm. He used warm water in the lav to rinse off the dark coloring on his RXglasses. (his only known physical flaw, victim of aging and at about 40 it hit his eyesight) He used ice from the galley on his fat lip caused by the ricocheting pilot chute during salvage. He used warm water in the lav to re-heat his hands, delaying numbness from the cold ff. He had a rubberband attached inside each shoe, over his big toe. :) He left a couple of dye bundles behind, 1 on the steps and 1 wedged in the stair lever, for the crew to find inflight and/or to fall out. He closed the door behind him creating the turb. that threw off the suits timeline 4 minutes. He kept one eye closed from 1 hour prior, further protecting night vision in at least one eye. His 'bomb' detonator is also his chest mount instrument panel with stopwatch and alti. He rolled off the step and did a perfect style series (never waste an $18 lift). He deployed, as planned, in a ridge wave from the wind and mountains, (yep with a round!) His DZ choice was simple, within walking distance of any rail line. He rode the rails to stashed water transport. He went upstream to his 'rent to own' marina moored yacht. He paid another months rent. He went to Alices for turkey dinner. He motored his yacht to the Pacific a day or so later. He tossed identifiable(to the leased boat) items overboard completing another alias/tragedy/theft. He set sail and went over the horizon to his next gig. He told me this personally on my death bed in Nigeria and gave me his bank account # and a key to his lockbowl. Please resp[end me abruptly, I go at your DZ last month and we can mount horny gorilla every day! :) .............................................. On a 'slightly' more serious line of thought, I have a few questions, WAG's, opinions, ox-goring, and oddness to add. I read both threads twice and then some, Another suggestion to re-read will likely be forthcoming, pre-emptively ignored. :) IF YOU ARE TIRED OF REPEAT QUESTIONS make a FAQ. Bitchin about repeats rarely works in theese situations. (defending the repeats is in same category, I am guilty) Without some kind of summary posts or rounding up of facts, people forget what they read 30 pages ago. I took notes 2nd. pass, but not enough. Some of the questions have been answered many times, but the data has been left behind buried in the thread. I won't touch who DB is now or was after the jump, I'll leave that to Art Bell and Richard Hoagland types. I consider that the path to folly, not the answers I seek. Other than how WHO relates to HOW, idontwannaknow WHO, iwannaknow _HOW_. ............................................... re: Air Stair/door Did the stairs lock or float when 'down'? Did he close the door before he jumped? (tied perhaps) Evidence of suspension line burns on door, handrail, hydraulic legs, etc? Were stairway lights off? Did he make a static line? decoy? The pics in this thread don't have much detail. One pic looked like the turbine exhaust was damaged, was it? The example pic that _I_ understood to be showing massive damage, looks like perfect stairs and a missing turbine, elevator, and rudder. (they prolly have they safety meetings up there) :) re: cannibalized canopy What tools used? How many lines missing and what lengths? Did the system have a pilot chute and if so is it missing? Ripcord missing? Did he salvage any fabric? re: chase planes Did chase planes see lowered stairs? Did _they_ think DB might have detected them? Did he try to fuck with them if he did? Were the shades down, did he cover the side door windows? re: bathroom visit Where is the door hinge? Could he see fore or aft with the door cracked open? When? just before jump or before gearing up? Were lights off in lav? Is there any reason to suspect he was injured prior? re: weather What was the weather SUPPOSED to be? How cloudy/foggy was it and at what altitude were the cloud bottom/tops? re: suit coat Did it conceal a harness with attachment points? re: sunglasses Rx? did he always have them on or off when reading? Was there use ever inconsistant with disguise? Was there use consistant with protecting night vision on jump run? Did he request cabin lights dimmed? Nav lights/strobes on or off? re: smoking If he was 40-50 and a smoker, did he have a cough/hack? Is there observation indicating he was not a regular smoker? Matches and/or lighter, Zippo or Bic? where did he keep his smokes? How did he hold them? thumb and index, in V of index and middle, or tip of index and middle? Was he calm enough during a hijack to let the ash get long? Was he messy with ashes? How long would his supply last at rate of consumption? re: moon It was 1st. 1/4 on the 25th. (almost 1/2 a moon in laymans terms) Moonset was @ 11:05 or so. The moon was high in the South West at exit time. Part of the plan or co-inky-dink? re: money Rubberbands do turn to powder and/or goo. Some money may have been used as a decoy by DB. Objects tossed out the door could get caught in a burble and not fall out for a long while. DB with sunglasses may not have noticed. Jumpers been droppin they toys for a while. Sometimes farmers return said toys and jumpers go "WOW! you live how far away?" (while defending spoting skills and tapping alti wondering if it can be returned to service) Rivers bring heavy sand up to the bars often. (on wild drunken dates even) What is the float time of sand? How many wet/dry cycles are involved? Some fish survive the trip thru some dredges btw. What about critters draging a carcass with money attached? re: briefcase/bomb Anything else seen in briefcase besides a bomb? Did it appear heavy? Flare/dynamite or smoke canister size sticks or blob of material? re: timeline What indications as to flexibility of his plan and/or tolerances to be maintained? Obviously there is an energy/awareness limit for humans that sleep. re: observed attitude Was he polite to everyone or did he have favorites? Paranoia, healthy amount (they _were_ after him!), too much, not enough? re: revenge/grudge If a grudge was involved, faked suicide may have been the motivator. (real or otherwise) Do we believe him? Did he lie chronically or only as needed for the job? He may have been in a wierd 'forbidden' personal relationship that went sour. (wrong religion/race/sex/politics/economic status) The nature of the relationship might prevent the 'victim' from speaking up. He did not kill anyone (that we know of yet) or permanently ruin any expensive toys. re: off the wall Was he a homicide bomber that lost his nerve and came up with a last minute plan to escape from his cult alive? ................. Wild Assed Guesses iNTp(profit) or possibly iNTj(grudge) An introvert with unusual discipline regarding secrets. When to pull? If he saw or FEARED the chase planes and he had previous jumps I say he hummed it. (ie:smuggler-jumpers go low, sometimes too low) If he was _more_ worried about the landing than being shot I say he pulled according to plan or high. If he somehow got 2 canopies out the calculated drift may be too short. Chute happens. The turbulance assumed to be exit time may not be. From experience, 'near the door' you can _feel_ and hear people exiting, away from door you do not notice as much the pressure waves. (stairs removed) If the hydraulics on the stairs were of the 'float' type in the open position, then he may have had to lower the stairs repeatedly as they would tend to be pushed closed by the wind. I posit that this would be felt in the airframe but not an exiting jumper. If the Hy lines were of sufficient diameter, he may have had to fashion a string or wedge to operate the lever/pump while on the lower stairs. If he squeezed out partial stair deployment then he was really fuckin close to the turbine exhaust! *** If he was thinking night vision that was part of the plan all along. If he was _not_ protecting his night vision he is/was a fool cause he _had_ dark sunglasses. *** The moon was not full for landing, but it would be similar at next holiday, if holidays mattered. He may have wanted darkness after midnight. It must have been in tolerance, cause he did do it. His source of airstair data may have been a fluke and/or wrong even. lots of experts on every subject can be found at beer:30. He may have considered in flight cargo ramps and airstairs as the same thing. It was ultimately 'good enough' but may have been flawed. I toured a few cockpits as a child when me granny was flying. (no turkish prisons though) Back in the day ppl were assumed not to all have ill intent. Today it's kiss em at the curb and they fend for selves thru airport. I wonder if he ended up in tow. (for a while) ie: deployed on step into burble or over engineered a static line, He could have been a smuggler that lost a load and was in desperate need of funds for health reasons. His creditors may have planted him anyways for bringing marked cash for payment. This would motivate silence in the matter too. Pull High/low/no, alive/dead, mastermind/fool, did he spot/time his exit, or just go with the flow??? Entertaining thread :) Thx DB wherever you are! PULL! jumpin_Jan "Dangerous toys are fun but ya could get hurt" -- Vash The Stampede

Excellent thread thx! I'll decloak for this one :) In the late 80's I had many memorable jumps in Warm Springs, GA. One in particular is etched in my soul. Full on summer, long hot days of jumpin :) A guy up from Ft. Benning needed a night jump for his license. We planned and excecuted a casual RW jump, I think we turned a point or 2 & pulled. It was a late sunset and jump run was about 11:20PM for a qualifying night jump. Whenst upon opening, also being low, seeing the runway lights at what looked like the horizon, started lookin fot the "outs". I had been in the back of the Cessna, I never checked the spot till I was open. Had I botherd to check the spot in freefall I wound have dumped immediately. Directly below me was a small lake (located deep in what we called parachute hell). Along one shore of the lake (East) was one of the 2 tiny lighted areas within range. It must have been a light in the center of a gazebo, all I could see was a wagon wheel pattern of lighted yard. I could see trees _in_ the pattern and the area is mostly tall pines. The other lighted area I saw was what looked like a tight but doable yard with a bright sodium light. I located 3 glow sticks above me and made a bee line for the target. I determined wind speed, penetration, checked for traffic, rinse repeat. Somewhere below 500' the wire running to the pole holding the light came into view. The wire went directly across the center of what lighted yard I could see, damn! What would have been tight in the day was just cut in half. I had the altitude and I was getting penetration so I chose to clear the wire and land with the light to my back. I was setting up on final (a bit high luckily) when I noticed a long straight black shadow pass below me almost parallel with my flight. As I was wondering what the fuck... I saw another one and realized I was directly over the high power lines at night and close enough to see them. At this point I opted for trees in the dark. I nudged a flat turn and counted 3 more wires pass below me then back to normal fucked up landing out at night view. With the wires behind me and not yet having flown over the trees I calculated I could still make the yard but I was a bit high now after slowing my descent when I saw the high power wires. By now I clearly saw all the big wires next to me and I was front risering a tad coming in hot wanting to be low before I hit the trees at the end of the clearing. Next thing I know I seem to be diving at the wire running to the pole, too hot. (note to reader, I was under a 172 Wildfire, the term 'hot' needs to be taken in context, lol) I came close enough that I had retracted the gear to miss it. I somehow leveled off may have started to climb a tad as the canopy stalled. I was 3-4 feet too high starting to swing in front of the chute when........ The whole fucking place lit up brighter that daylight. I could see my canopies shadow on the ground in front of me. I could see the shadow from the lines! Next thing I know I'm scrambling to get up after hitting on my ass. My first thought was that my pilot chute had caught on the wire leading to the light pole. Off with the protec and buried the cylume in the canopy as I went into trespassing at night in rural Georgia mode. I called out "wires" and heard an almost casual "no shit" as I saw, in the fading orange glow of the sodium light, another jumper brush the high wires on his way by. He and another jumper landed next to me uninjured, I think that both brushed the big wires on the way by. Along about now I realize (and was being told) that it was not my pilot chute caused the sparks on the low wire. It was the #2 guy in the pattern behind me. He straddled one of the high wires, sparked and fell. He was alive and talking, burned and broken, but alive. Airborn dudes are made of some tough stuff! Guy instinct from bicycles or luck? the guy had 3rd degree burns on the back of his thigh and leg, and lesser burns 'elsewhere'. His shoe was melted to his foot! xyz went to the door for help as we kinda hid behind a vehicle in the drive to avoid lead poisoning. (I have no idea why the spot was off in the first place, I think the winds aloft changed 180) Power was out in 3 counties. He was taken to a Warm Springs facility with a helipad and lifeflight was dispatched from Atlanta I think, It took forever. Last I heard he was recovering in the hospital, I forget what became of him or if he ever returned to the sky. Another Sparky was born! The next day we went back to the scene and realized that where the refuse from the EMT's and trampled ground was directly below another set of power wires that ran under the high ones. We speculate the low wires _may_ have saved him from a fatal fall from the high wires, who knows. Of all of us I had it the easiest, lighted landing area and I saw the wires. I don't know if Sparky saw them or not. The other 2 guys had to land at night, really dark, no power for miles, right after staring at an arc lamp. They can pipe up if they choose, I know at least one of em lurks here. this link may work for the location http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=rosevelt+memorial+airport,+warm+springs,+ga&ie=UTF8&ll=32.923294,-84.699783&spn=0.010573,0.013325&t=h&z=16 The lake is SSW of the airport. We landed just north of the lake near the bend in the powerline cut, right where Hidden Lakes Road juts north. It looks way bigger on google maps than it did that night lemme tell ya.... PULL! jumpin_Jan "Dangerous toys are fun but ya could get hurt" -- Vash The Stampede