LawnDart21

This conversation is really starting to go around in circles. Thats where we disagree, I dont look at current AADs as dead ends. They serve a purpose, and do so quite well, very very well in fact as a whole. You seemed to gloss over my other post, so I'll restate it, as it bears repeating. If you think it is a distinct possibility that you will become "distracted" (your word, not mine), and pass through 750ft without having opened either your main or your reserve, you should seriously reconsider whether or not you should be jumping a wingsuit, rather than looking for someone to make an AAD that will allow you become distracted. A wingsuit jump is a complex jump, that said, you shouldnt be opening any lower than normal skydiver, hence if you were to have to cutaway, you would return to freefall, and reach the current activation speed for cypres fire. Your need to change it seems to indicate that one would still be in bird man flight passing through 750ft. If (base jumps excluded) you reach that point becuase you were "distracted", you shouldnt be jumping it in the first place. I'm all for progress, remake a wheel, by all means. If you can make a better wheel, or think someone else can, go for it. Its your mindset that I disagree with more than anything. -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

Thank you. "Draculette" is such a trouble maker, she's always getting my wife into trouble.....lol You guys are gonna have fun down there! -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

You already have the best altimeter available; your eyes. You already have the best AAD available; your brain. Use the best and you wont need the rest. -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

Regardless of whats "up their sleeves" you agree you cannot offer any proof their design is better than the original 3-ring design, hence your example is flawed. The basic 3 ring assembly as created, is still the most reliable version in its basic form. Advanced versions have done nothing to make it better. And even the Aerodyne version is susectible to being hooked up wrong (human error). 1) On any jump you should not exude any level of confidence that your AAD will work as intended. Thats device dependance. 2) If you honestly perceive that there exists a possibility that you would get distracted on a wingsuit jump (or any jump for that matter) and still be in freefall at 750ft, then you need to seriously reassess your decision to jump a wing suit. Lastly lets analyze your theory. Lets say SSK creates a wingsuit version cypres, that will only fire if your going say more that 45mph, to account for the slow vertical decent speeds of wingsuits. You've now placed half the wing suit pilots at risk of errant cypres fires because their canopies descent faster in turns than 45 mph. More people are now in greater danger. Your answer? Create an on/off button? So after opening you can resume normal canopy flight. So now we have one major change, fall rate firing speed, and a second major change, an on/off feature to prevent canopy fires. Two more areas to potentially screw up an already complex design. The nature of the AAD is to be turned on and forgotten about. You start placing having to deal with an AAD into an already busy list of after opening procedures, its gonna take more time, and give people one more thing to screw up. All that, so you can feel confident that if you dont do you job (open any parachute) it will do its job? The easiest/safest solution is to make sure you do your job. -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

Admittedly, I had to look that word up, I didn't know what it means. dictionary.com says it means "relentless". "Not to be persuaded" is what I got. AFAIK the parameters for firing havent changed. The start sequence hasnt changed. Were arguing different points now. Again, you said, you want to "never" have to worry about a misfire/no fire, and I have said and continue to say that reaching that level of perfection is not possible. End of debate on that one for me. My stance is inexorable. (Now that I know what that means). As for improvements, unless a situation occurs where a misfire or no fire occurs outside of the current envelope of performance, I don't think there is much use in pushing for that .01 percent of improvement. Has Aerodyne's imporvement of the middle ring made the Aerodyne 3 ring any better/safety? I seriously ask that you provide test results to show that it has. Lastly, I'll give you an example of an appropriate designation of effort pertaining to our conversation. Its no secret swoopers are pushing cypres firing limits under canopy. A fatality even occured as a result of the current parameters being exceeded in a way not expected in the original design. SSK has since gone on to work on developing a new operating parameter to meet the need of swoopers. Thats a good thing. -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

Chances are for almost all of them, had they understood the device (AAD) functions better on the current gear they had, they would still be here. "Ridiculous" does not imply comedy, I am simply saying I find it (your theory) to lack any merit. I want to give you a very clear idea of what it is you are saying by suggesting that there exists a need to improve upon the design and function of current AADs (as they relate to safety): There exists another well known saftey device, the 3 ring release system. When installed correctly, after the cutaway is pulled, the 3 ring releases, with a very very very high degree of reliability. Unless of course, the jumper hooking up a main misroutes the 3 ring loop assembling it, then you may not be able to cut away. Is that a design flaw? should the designer redesign the 3 ring to account for user error in the hook up sequence? or should the designer release the responsibility of understanding how our gear is supposed to work, before we actually jump it, to us the individual jumper? Next, it states in all the manufacture manuals, and is said here on this board a million times quite clearly.....FLEX YOUR THREE RINGS EVERY MONTH to prevent the rings/webbing from developing a memory and causing a hard cutaway. Do a poll Nathaniel, ask people anonymously how many of them flex thier three rings every month. Most people DO NOT. Thats fine, but when their 3 ring fails to release because there is now a set memory in the rings/webbing, is it the designers fault for not designing a more idiot proof 3 ring system that accounts for the fact most people wont maintain according to manufacturers recommendations, or is the jumper at all responsible for undertstanding how it works and actually being proactive and doing the preventative maintence ourselves. By your definition/theory, even though the current 3 ring system, like the current cypres, is a highly effective piece of gear for its designed purpose WHEN USED AND MAINTAINED CORRECTLY, you think the designer should still be sitting at the drawing board trying to come up with an even better 3 ring system. He should be trying to make it that .01 percent better. Or the designer could say, "I did the best I could do, and the best I did is pretty darn good. I think I'll devote my efforts now to another more pressing problem, I think I'll design the skyhook" -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

That's what your missing. Error already has been reduced, GREATLY. Your other post said you "never wanted to worry", that would require perfection in manufacture and function of the gear. Never gonna happen, EVER. For its designed function, when used correctly, the cypres is way more than just "halfway decent". There are numerous "dead men walking" that can attest to that fact. The device works, and when usd correctly, works very very very well. I'm sorry, but I think its rediculous to think that SSK needs to make the cypres more user friendly. It works, and works well, as is, and is already very very reliable. Rather than change the design & function of the unit, a more practical use of your energy would be spent on educating people on its function and use. How idiot proof must our gear become before someone stops and says, "hey, you know what, I'm taking responsibility for my own safety. I'm not gonna count on SSK building a unit easier to use, I'm gonna expend the energy to learn to use what I have correctly, and take responsibility for my own safety, instead of depending upon the manfacture to acount for my lack of understanding of how my gear works." -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

As long as AADs are made by man and not from a divine source, there will always always always exist the possibility that either scenario will occur, regardless of how minute the chances are. If your not comfortable with that undeniable fact, you have two choices: 1) Jump without an AAD or 2) Don't jump. I don't mean to sound terse, but c'mon, I think your reading way to deep into this. I know there is a chance a meteor could crash into earth and kill us all, but I don't stay up at night worrying about it. -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

Skydiving is a dangerous activity. There are alot of risks. The majority of the risks though can be mitigated by: 1) Proper Education, 2) Proper Preparation, 3) Proper Execution, 4) Using Common Sense & 5) Being honest with one's self about one's abilities. Most fatalities can be traced back to a breakdown of one of those steps. If you follow steps 1 through 5, chances are you can reasonably expect to have a long prosperous career in this sport. People will say "You can do everything right and still die." Yes, correct. However, chances are, if you do everything right, your gonna survive. Lacking 4 & 5, Common Sense and Honestly assessing ones abilities, are two of the biggest causes of canopy fatalities/injuries these days. So I would say, yes, the perceived risk is worth the reward, and I intend to keep jumping as long as I can. -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

If someone could provide any factual data (not "I heard down South one time.....") of a cypres firing while a jumper was still in the door, I would really like to hear about it. -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

Hi Leeanne! You are gonna have sooooo much fun at the Lake Wales boogie. I just got back from there yesterday. Like you, other AFF students have gone down to LW during the boogie in the past to finish up, and they all had a blast. The DZ, the aircraft, and most importantly the people, are some of the best you'll see in the sport. Go, have fun, and keep Mary out of trouble and Donna off the roof.......lol If your looking for a little boost, here, read what I wrote on here 4 years ago, maybe it will give you an idea of what to expect the sport (and Pepperell) will bring you. http://www.dropzone.com/columns/TheSkyLessTraveled.shtml And just think of the day that you, me, Jimmy, Mary, Donna and Danger build your first 6-way round! Blue skies, Tom -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

My 1st trip to Dillingham field, I showed up by myself, didn't know anyone, and the first person I met was Max. I wrote about that meeting a few years ago. I was back in Ohau a couple of years later, and went back to the airfield to make some jumps. Of course the first person I see is Max. "Hello, how have you been?" He asked upon seeing me. I said "Hi Max, wow, I can't believe you remember me after two years". He said "I remember everyone." He was just filled with all this positive energy the two times I saw him on Oahu. A true skydiver. My condolenses. Blue Skies Max, Tom -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

Some people on here consider you a troll not because your opinion differs from theirs, but because you frequently make inflamatory sensationalized posts that appear to have no point other than to simply stir things up. (example: thread on students shitting themselves) After numerous posts to that effect, some people on here are simply tired of your inflammations. The easy thing would be for people to simply not respond to you in hopes you'd just go away, but people are people.....lol, and some just can't do that, they have to reply to your rubbish, hence you get pegged as a troll. (for the record, I think the majority of what you post is rubbish, but I dont consider you a troll). I absolutely agree with you there, as long as its not related to skydiving. All things being equal, I have more of a right to be safe in the air than you do to be stupid in the air. Meaning, if your stupidity jeapordizes my safety, I have a right to expect that my safety will come above your need to be free to make stupid mistakes. It happens all the time, lower jump numer jumpers on too hot of a canopy (because its their right to be stupid of course), takes out a conservative canopy pilot on landing because they are out of control. Or worse, what happens when the "right to be stupid" jumper hooks themselves in? Everyone loses, the jumper, the jumpers family and sport as a whole. So to rebut your statement : "Yes, you have the right to be stupidif you choose, but not in skydiving, not at my DZ. If I witness stupidity, I will have you grounded, for my safety and for those around us. And I would expect the same from you. In this sport, I am my brothers keeper, and he is mine." -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

Yes. The most important thing on any landing (HP wing over swoops/carves excluded), into the wind, downwind, crosswind, is that you have a level canopy over your head. Trying to turn into the wind has caused countless unnecessary injuries in our sport. Go skim the incident reports and see how many low turn injury incidents you can find where it states "jumper was attempting to turn into the wind too low". Trust me, there are alot in there. You may not always stand up a cross wind landing, but with a level canopy over your head, chances are you will walk away from it with nothing more than a couple of grass stains. -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

One suggestion I would make regarding your reaching for the ground is this: One of the best habits you can form in landing your canopy is an even, symmetrical flare. Regardless of Upwind, downwind, crosswind landing direction, giving the canopy an even symmetrical flare will give you the greatest chances for success. (Some people will suggest steering into a turn/crosswind landing as you flare, I disagree with that emphatically). Anyways, what I found helped me and others I have suggested it to, is to verbally (aloud) repeat to yourself "together, together, together" during your flare. Its a mental and audible cue to keep your hands together (symmetrical) during your flare. If you see a hand start to go lower than the other, get louder "TOGETHER, TOGETHER, TOGETHER!" until your hands are level again. Repeat "together" to yourself from the moment you start the flare till your canopy has stopped fling. Its hokey, but it works. -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

Don't beat yourself up. Live and learn. Most experienced jumpers don't do that either. (Turn to a jumper, any jumper, at 8000ft and ask them what the ground winds and winds aloft are doing, and chances are you'll get a "deer in headlights" look from them. Or if they are slick, they'll say "They are honking", and change the subject.....lol Many the crash resulting from that move in our sport. It basically flys (turns) the canopy into the ground. As a general rule, the smaller the canopy, the bigger the mess. Save for what? The next jump? -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

Good luck Belinda! Dollar for dollar, Dave's course is the best money you could spend in our sport. Dave and his instructors put an amazing amount of time and effort into it. Class starts at 6pm sharp on Friday, don't show up at 6:05pm, or you'll miss the class picture. The best piece of advice I can give you is BRING KNEE PADS. You will spend the better half of a week on your knees, on a thin carpet over a HARD FLOOR. We had people running out to buy them after the first day of closing reserves on the floor. Good luck! Tom -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

Thats a good point Ron. Although thats not to say that jumping in shorts cant be done safely. Personally I prefer to jump in one of two combos: Freefly pants a short sleeve t-shirt, or shorts and a long sleeve t-shirt. I like having fabric on one end of the other. Edit to add: According to my wife, I dont look cool in anything........lol -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

Isnt he banned from Perris? Atleast thats what he's posted elsewhere. -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

We had one of those paralyzing snow storms up here in Boston about 10 years ago, shutting down pretty much the entire state. Skeleton crews only were asked to come in at my job. Turns out an employee left his house at 5am on cross country skis, before the call went out to stay home if you wanted to.......and 5 HOURS LATER shows up for work at 10am, and get this, apologizes for being late. He got a raise and promotion pretty quick after that.........lol -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

When I was in college, I (unknowlingly) did a shot of Palmolive dishwashing detergent, and chased it with a shotgunned "New York Seltzer" can of selzter water......... I actually started to foam at the mouth.......lol Never doing that again.......... -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

CNN, GMA and every othr media outlet hasn't broadcast that. They broadcast "main gear malfunction", that's the big issue. Irregardless of who taught her FJC, when Rick decided to take her an AFF jump, he assumed full responsibility for her and for her knowledge of emergency procedures. All your statement does is pass the buck and dodge the responsibility, which ultimately lies with the instructor who took her on that jump. If they were not allowed to jump together at their home DZ, for whatever the reason, dating or otherwise, you'd like to think that as an AFF rated instructor that he would have had the sensibility to accept a very reasonable and common restriction between dating instructor/student jumps. I'm not blaming anyone. But if I were, Shayna is one of the last people I would blame for the incident. As a student she placed her trust in her instructor, and in this case, her instructor mishandled her trust and she almost died as a result of it. It's not about blame, its about truth in the media and the appropriate person accepting responsibility for jeapardizing the life of a student simply becuase he didnt like hearing what he was told (that he couldnt jump with her at his DZ). There are many on here, myself included that would disagree with that statement. It was a lack of instruction. How to handle a released break on one side is not a "seasoned jumpers" only knowledge. If a first jump student doesnt know that releasing the other toggle will solve that problem, I would question the FJC they were in. In the end, I'm just happy she is alive and well with a baby on the way. Nobody is perfect, life goes on. It'd just be a bit easier to swallow all this if the proper person (the instructor) bore the responisbility for the incident, not the student (Shayna) who didnt know any better. Blue skies, Tom -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

I've stayed out of this whole series of threads because I didnt want to get involved in an arguement that I didnt have all the facts about. (I still may not have all the facts, but I have to make a comment). That said, seeing as you are a direct line to the instructor. I have a question for you, one I am sure is fueling alot of angst on this board. All of the news reports that have sensationalized this incident have stated something to the effect that a skydiver survived a "double malfunction". More specifically, that 1st her main malfunctioned and second, her reserve malfunctioned. What I have read on these threads has led me to conclude that her main did not malfunction, rather it reacted exactly as it should have with one break unstowed. The point, her main was a very correctible pilot induced problem. Her main didnt malfunction, she did. It was pilot error, not gear error that caused her main to "malfunction", and it was correctible. That one simple facet of mistruth being sensationalized all over the media, that she survived a "double malfunction", when in truth, she caused the 1st one herself and it was correctible, gives the sport a black eye. So I would say, I think alot of us would feel better about how this story is being played out in the media, if it contained some degree of truth to the main malfunction. It was pilot (error) induced, in all likelyhood due to less than adequate training from her instructor. Lastly, I would love for one of the feel good reporters to ask "So, I see you live in Georgia, what made you decide to drive all the way to Alabama to jump that day?" I would love to see that question answered HONESTLY on national television: "We were not allowed to jump together at our local dropzone becuase student/instructor dating is frowned upon becuase it can lead to less than complete training methods, but we didnt like hearing we couldnt do what we wanted to do, so we drove to another DZ, far enough away from our local one so as not to get caught, and did what we were told we couldnt do at our own dz, and this horrible accident was a direct result of that incompetence." If I heard either of those tidbits, the main didnt actually malfunction, and that they were forbidden to jump together at their local DZ, ie, THE TRUTH, then I think, people wouldnt be so up in arms over this incident. -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

My answer was the same in this months Skydiving Magazine readers question: "Today, when I'm giving someone my opinion, chances are, they actually asked for it." -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

Thats a great point. I was recently under a nasty looking main that I wouldnt have believed if it was described to me. A 400 sq ft tandem main that had collapsed center cells, and the leading edge of the inflated left and right 3 end cells were flying into each other into the middle of it, bumping leading edges together. They were surging into each other, bouncing back, surging into each other, bouncing back, etc. I was at 4500, and while it was unsteerable and unlandable, I thought to myself, I have some altitude to try and sort this out, maybe a tug here and pull there will open this up. I'll give it a chance to fix itself before I chop it. I was able to clear it in about 500 ft, and landed it uneventfully. Had I had a similar canopy situation on a sport main at 100 jumps, I probably would have been quicker to chop it. -- My other ride is a RESERVE.