crashtested

thats awsome news phreezone, thanks for pushing it to his attention. shame about the scumbags in the sport, but i see your point., it happens this side of the alantic to, the student beening sold shitty old rigs.

It's now become amusing / shocking that most people would prefer that nothing was done to make it clearer that scams have been taking place.... made me see that the online community is very different to the real life one.. well played everyone (slow round of applause)

i am another person who thinks that there is not enough warning about scammers on your classifieds. there is a massive thread relating to htis on general skydiving disscusions. a few of us woulld like to see more warnings on the classifieds, maybe one which came up when you clicked on a rig for purchase. some people are not as bright as others and have been ripped recently by people. I would prefer it if more mandatory information had to be put on the classifieds to sell gear. like last repack and by whim. current dz, uspa or bpa number, etc etc, somthing that could be easily checked. still have a warning as soon as you click. its an easy fix and may save one person there hard earned pounds, in which case its worth it. btw i think dz is great (apart from this) :p

diablo, you have to look at your self in the mirror each morning, if your happy with how you are, thats all cool!! your a skygod afterall 2nd to none! I've offerd $100 towards the redevelopment of the page to put clearer warning signs up, i've sent some new ideas to the owner of the site so it makes it harder for scammers. For the Op, i sent my condolences, if i had a spare rig and he was local he'd be more then welcome to use it, With western union he made a school boy error, somthing that everyone who has been on here for more then 6 months has seen happen before. he has 3 jumps, he does not have the experiance that we may have in seeing people get ripped off, He jumped in expecting star rated members to have been veted, or to have been on here for years, (he did not check) and he was well and truely scammed. I'm not saying he did all he could, but as a community we could make it more difficult for scammers if we put ideas together that would benifit everyone. its a small community surley this is not the hardest challange skydivers have faced. Or maybe i'm being a bit green in thinking anyone does care enough to try to push for small changes? I hope i'm wrong and somthing positive can come out of this... a bit like Mr. Ted Strong helping out a dz when its gear all got nicked. Other people just turned round and said it's not my problem, He did his upmost to help it them out. Fair play to People who make an effot small or large.

Every one of my students gets the offer from me to help investigate any purchases, inspect gear, and handle escrow if the wish. And several have taken me up on it. After 5 years in gear sales I have a little to offer. As for your friend, I have no idea what you're on about. thanks diablo.. that really helps the op and anyone else who may be scammed in the future. So now we need to figure a way of putting all future transactions and aff students through diablo,

explain my attitude to me diablo you can phone me on 00441494721001, either pm or put a post for the world to see. is it like your attitude when you called a friend of mine a fake and fraudster when he was selling his nitro, then repeated it continualy baiting him on the whole thread? Or is it like your attitude when you use one line put downs when people ask for advice, giving them nothing but shit? Or is it like your attitude when you tell people to go jump rigs which will kill them and say you could'nt give a shit? Do you know what you have won again... i'm hooked! i'm sure your not the twat you make yourself out to be... on your dz your probally pretty funny and an ok guy. Why not give people a break? help them out rather then critizize, i'm sure you know a lot with your jump numbers, use your knowledge in a clever way. and educate others so they learn something. How would you personally help people who are in danger of getting defruaded? it is happening on this website as previously mentioned, what is an easy soloution to it? in your opinion?

do you realize that you just insulted people with 30x more jumps and thus ALOT more experience with and around skydiving ? Perhaps you should realize that they simply HAVE to know better ??? cool it a bit, and think about how a adults are considered adults because they can make decisions for themselves. Otherwise your beloved courts would rule them incompetent and appoint a guardian. Why do you think i'm into law, becaue i put an example on here about how it works and the pitfulls of letting people get ripped off, i studied it thats all, I own a bar, and skydive my socks off when possible. and yes they may have 30 x's more jumps and they may be a sky god, but it does not mean I will give way to them on here, if i find them being unconstructive when a few of us are trying to figure a better way of saving people from getting scammed. Whats the problem with us trying to improve the classifieds, is it really going to effect your life, i understand if your unintrested in the subject or don't care if the guy lost $1300, thats your choice. But don't get down on me for actively trying to help others and imrpove the general services of the biggest skydiving website. Rather than this tit for tat crap, where people are telling the guy he's an idiot. and then shouting me out at me for informing how there could be a chance of dropzone being taken to court, if they were not careful. You think i'm an asshole, for helping others out or trying to make contructive criticism, ok, i can live with that. but don't expect me to appolagise for it

Cool.... it looks like everyones a winner, i don't jump with people who are inconsiderate assholes, i've already written on this i would not jump with you guys, as you don't give a shit about anyone but yourselves. If you read the thread and read what i'd written you may see the my point. I was making an example, so the owner does not fall into the trap of a being taken to court. by putting a bigger disclaimer up. its not rocket science, if you don't like my idea, i could'nt give a toss. I'm using my knowledge to help people, you are doing what exactly??? using this forum to vent off your personal frustrations Once again ignorance wins.. congratufuckulations diablopilot , you are a complete spanner, and reitarate it with every post you make. I truley hope we meet one day, so I can figure out what your issue is with the world, as every comment you make on these forums is full of shit.

Funny how you put "buyer beware", thats a law term, btw, so it turns out is in your world already. What I'm doing is putting reasons why it would be a better idea to add some big disclaimers in there. and some big warnings, Its called being proactive. or giving a shit about other people apart from myself. regardless of your actions or reactions to what i have said, i've still got your back in those skys, i'll still look out for others, and i'll continue to give a damm But i would not trust you on here for anything, your attitude to be frank is shit.

Some valid points there likestojump, as i said i don't know everything (anything) but you are right about commen law, however the case law obviously differates between countrys, so I dont know what the standing or factors of a case like this would be. However.... I do care both for people getting scammed, and i would hate to see someone bring a case against dropzone and see the owners getting bucked over. we have already said how it could be imrpoved, and how to protect everyone a bit more from both scenarios. Why take a chance Its now up to DZ to act.

I'm 286 with gear out the door, when i'm eating to many pies, i think i had to drop to 270 or so to do AFF in england. Cave man diets help a lot, meat, fish and veg, you'll drop the 30 in no time, fly through aff then add weight back on with donnuts. good luck!! :P

Once again diablo you have shown your Ineptitude for even the simpleist of reading tasks, start at the start, read through, THEN make a comment, if you can't be bothered to read a thread, to see why me and the NZ guy are pissed then your wasting valuable skydiving time writing on here. With regards to the negligence and a law suit Phelps vs london bourogh of hillingdon is how case law would be looked at In law, in order to establish negligence, three conditions must be met: 1.The person who is being held responsible for the negligence must owe the victim a "duty of care". In this case providing a service where gear sales takes place, and knowing fraud takes place. they owe a duty however slight it may be to ensure that transactions taking place are both legal and do not enfringe on a persons human rights. etc etc 2.That duty of care must have been breached. Not providing measures to stop fraudsters targeting the classifieds. and a fraud taking place. (that'll be the breach) 3.As a result of that breach, the victim has suffered identifiable loss. Them getting ripped off for lets say $1300 (I would identify that as a loss) The wonderful world of law, PLEASE BE AWARE I'M NOT TAKING ANYONE TO COURT. I'm just showing how things could go pareshaped very quickly for the owners of dropzone. I only studied for 7 years so i could be wrong. but a good lawyer could at least make a case, which would be heard. And we're only angry cause its such a simple request to shore up the classifieds and make it easy to see that frauds are taking place. And again someones wrote well thats your own fault... once again nice comment WELL DONE, Another person who i would not ask for a flight line check. His chest strap was undone, He should have known better, correct!! . but somone looking out for me would have meant i would not have died. An extreme Analogy, but one all the same.

Thats ok then................. Like when a dz has someone who breaks there back, after they have signed a disclaimer and they sue and still win... go figure. Contracts are three as general protection, if you can prove that a company or persons have been negligent in there general duty of care (which for matter of course, they owe to everyone using any serivce) then a law suit can be brought fwd (english law)(american ???) against said company. Regardless of law suits etc , as a small community we owe it to ourselves and more so to new jumpers more protection, in the buying and selling and scamming of people. Fine its there fault and they shold be more careful, but thats a piss poor attitude to have in my opinion. And an attitude which frankly i don't want to have anything to do with. i will make the sugestion as stated above, I truley hope somone gives a shit and does something about it. if i can help in anyway I will!!

NWflyer, rarely do i agree with you, but you have made a good point, about false sense of security. But we are looking for ways to put stop gaps into these things. Someone gets scammed, nromally with western union. - put up a message saying Dropzone does not recomend western union as a money transfer for goods due to the high number of scams, IN BIG LETTERS. I understand the false sense of security, but if i bought a rig or gear i woul like to phone the rigger to see what they thought of it, i would also check other things, but i do so because of experiance, of seeing people getting scammed on a regualer basis. All we're asking are some massive warning signs or more info on kit and the people selling it, not a lot to ask. dropzone.com has a duty of care to people using this website to try and prevent them getting scammed. They know the problem and that its happening, by doing nothing shows negligence, i could give case law on this, and in court could rip the ass of any argument you have given so far. Even if you people @ Dropzone do not give a shit, It won't be long b4 a pissed of newbie finds a lawyer who does. Up to you really but my offer of $100 still stands

greating s is spelt greetings - your spelling is better then mine still I like the sidewinder 2 myself but your best bet is to try them on at a dz as they all fit differently, my head only fits comfortably in 2 or 3 makes. good luck and welcome to the dz

Your main has no labels no serial no info, sounds great, would i buy it no.. by writing that info down it already shows that its well used and may not last me another 200 jumps, warning sound in my head as a buyer. if info can not be completed than explinations must be given.... my god i'm a genius. Local dz not jumped for 3 years, not many people would remember them",, true, but someone would. local riggers, all info is logged with every repack done, with the name of customer name of rigger, etc etc as you must well know.... i don't understand your reason for palming this off, in that manner. true with pd canopies, but again all were trying to achive is to make it harder for scammers, if you wanted to double check you could phone them and ask, who owns it. i apriciate the work that goes into the maintaining of the site as mentioned b4, so I'll put $100 forward to the redevelopment of the classifieds, so somone can be paid to do the work, just do it properly.(western union of course)

WTF.... 1.whats the problem with putting a dz number on, its not like there private facilities, 2.Vital data, what are they going to do with it??? its not a sort code or bank account number 3.How many people do you know who don't have a camera on there phone, or does not know someone who does not own a sodding camera... (i don't know any) Or you could say hey guys i'm trying to sell my rig please take a pic for me, would they really say no???? 5. Again dislosing your last repack... FFS.. this is just getting stupid.. give me one good reason why you would not want to disclose that info(unless your a scammer) 6.that i have a lot of 7. again your selling gear, private gear lagitimetly, maybe rare cases of people who say i don't want my wife to know i'm selling this gear so she won't ask for money for new shoes!!!! 8.Phone number is intrusive and pointless unless its a landline, you can by a cell phone for $15 than bin it if you were a scammer. $1300 - $15 = common sense we're trying to create a system that does not leave people in the shit... so we lose the secret of our last repack.... or a scammer does not get my serial number of my rig, agreed they coud use iit for a later scam but lets be posative and try and think of soloutions not reasons why this can't be done..

b4 my rant here are some ideas. When posting gear, the following MUST be entered 1.Local DZ, name and telephone number 2. Serial numbers container / main / reserve / add 3. Colour of main / reserve / container 4.Date of manafacture / 5.Last repack date / repacked by whom 6.Marks / damage/ missing items (Free bag Pilot chute) 7. Parachute assotiation number (bpa / uspa / etc) If any info is not entered then come up with a scam warning, tough luck if you don't know the details of your gear. If you've jumped it, you should know it!! Soap Box When did this shitty attitude come into the sport, i've seen it more and more on this site. Tough luck / I told you so / can't help you. Thankfully these types of people don't make an apperance at any dz i go to, or don't voice these negative opinions or remarks, i would never have entered this sport had they been at my dz. i can only assume they don't jump that often. The joys of anomity on the web allows negativity and disregard for others, which is a shame as what is a great community (the skydiving World) is being tarnished by these remarks and lack of positive thoughts. This thread is at the top of the agenda at the momment, possibly the first thing a potential new skydiver would read, Maybe think a bit before clicking away on your keyboard. If you are new to the sport, people don't bite and will help you out when trying to find gear, beer is always the best ice breaker, and 10 mins of there time could save you being ripped off. Blue ones

Sorry to hear you have been messed over. I know you must be deperate to get a rig as i was when i started but still Couple of points to think about... Why buy a rig you have not seen, have not tried on, and know nothing about. Even if you had got it it may have been unjumpable, stolen, or fit for the trash can. Western union are a scammers best friend. DROPZONE peeps This is getting beyond a joke, if you can't control the classifieds then remove them, figure out a system and put some headlining stickys in there. hell put a massive warning sign up when people click on classifieds, anything, this must be 5 newbies in the past 4 months who have been fecked over. its not on.

About 1.2...... Depends on type of canopy, if you go from a square to eliptical, to a Cross b. If its the same canopy as in a safire 210 to a safire 190. Then you may find it slightly more responsive, it'll tuen quicker and sharper, you'll come into land quicker, if you have a mal it'll happen faster, You'll look cooler cause you have a smaller rig :p, Your packing if you have kept the same container and free bag will become easier (unless the canopy is new and shiney; then it'll become a bitch) Try to forget you have downsized, it is not a massive jump on your WL but a sensebile one (on paper.. as you could be a terrible canopy pilote who needs to upsize,, I dont know you from adam) Practice high, check your stall point, check your flare, check your turns. Have fun Ö

This may sound a bit strange..... I started to get freaked out about flying... (I became that person who starts shouting "we're all going to die" when you get turbulence) After a particular flight back from NY I realised it was getting out of control (I spent 6 hours shaking backwards and forwards, and refused a beautiful stewedess's offer of helping me in any way she could ;) So...I decided the only rational thing to do would be to learn how to jump out of a plane and practice flying on my own, On level 5 AFF My fear of small planes stopped, and jump number 60 odd i got back onto a Transatlantic jet again, I still shout out we're all going to die from time to time, but thats becasue i never really lost my sense of humour. And if you shout it enough they give you tranqualizers which sell for mucho $$ on the open market! To this day I still shit myself a little on the way up, but on the plus side for you others, I don't hang around in the door, I can't wait to get out of that flying deathtrap!

Remember to pull

i did it on my first solo exit.... a gainer i think it was which is the same thing... As long as you feal comfortable getting stable in all senarios, then crack on, but if you had any difficultys with getting stable than maybe chill out. you have a million jumps in which to do Other exits!! My sensible side says... From a AFF point of veiw i think you our meant to be practicing other things on your consoles and have to tick box's on these 10 jumps before getting your a licence. Gainer or backflip aint one of them, unstable exit i think is though so maybe you could use that as an excuse. HAve fun.. and maybe talk to your instructor.. maybe Any exit improves skills you could put to use one day blue ones

/////////////////////////////////////// Just thought it needed to be said agian. Sorry im a New Yorker I had to do it lol

QuoteWell i feel like the biggest idiot for what happened..im pretty embarassed i dont want to even post on here anymore...i had a long talk with an instructor at my DZ right after the incident...im taking a cnopy control class on saturday and sunday of this weekend and i am going to upsize to a 170 for 25 jumps or until my instructors think im good to go! Quote Personally i would have downsized to a 135, have a great canopy course i'm sure you'll gain loads from it. Also You still have not mentioned whether you shit yourself just a little?? I'm thinking you did!! Blue ones