skinnyflyer

billvon this thread is about whether or not a builing can collapse on its own due to fire and structural damage. part of my argument was that no steel skyscraper has ever or since fallen due to fire alone. your counter argument is an example of a building that burned hotter and longer and DID NOT COLLAPSE . the roof collapsed but the steel structure DID NOT COLLAPSE. so if thats what you mean by debunked then ok you debunked everything. good job. "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

billvon you are the one who repeated the same ridiculous things again and again such as the example i just gave. "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

vortexring ''He's also aware 9 of the so called suicide bombers are actually alive!! '' somewhere in this thread i posted links to bbc news report saying that at least six of the hijackers have come forward saying that they are still alive. "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

like this; ''steel skyscrapers used to collapse often due to fires'' and then he gives an example of a skyscraper that didn't collapse. without a single example of a skyscraper collapsing due to fire all his posts are like this "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

yes vortexring "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

not a single point has been debunked "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

i think that jeff king is a research scientist employed by MIT which is slightly different then your "floormate''. i only threw out these names because someone said that the only supporters of c.d. are young non-experts. "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

nanook steven e jones is a physicyst for 20 years or so and has come forward to support the controlled demolition theory and lost his job because of his position. jeff king is an engineer from MIT who supports c.d. Jim Hoffman is a software engineer and many other reputable people "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

like i said dorbie you solved the mystery, it was a combination of radiation, exothermitc contributions and insulation that melted the steel. "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

so billvon the steel falling caused the steel it impacted to melt. "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

''As for the heat, when you have insulation in a pile like that there is nop lace for the heat to go and all sorts of stuff burns like that including metals, the heat builds up provided there is still an exothermic reaction which a little air through convection would provide'' this has been covered in this thread; all the experts including the two official investigations fema and nist agree that the temperatures were not hot enough to melt steel. they have no explanation oh wait you just solved the mystery it was the insulation burning that melted the steel. "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

actually i began researching this material so that i could tell some idiot how stupid he was for believing stupid conspiracy theories but i obviously came to a different conclusion. "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

jcd11235 i don't know but i'm sure billvon will be able to explain how we ended up with this; http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/thermite.html "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

speedracer no one said you had to read this thread "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

billvon not one of your arguments holds ground; -you failed to explain how compressed air turns concrete into dust and how even though there is no compressed air in b7 there are still puffs. ''1) Massive chunks of concrete raining down on it caused puffs of dust where they impacted 2) When the damage happened near the 5th floor, smoke from the fire there was released '' except that the puffs are only present seconds before and during the collapse many hours after the debris has fallen. and the fires are many floors below. -''As I showed, they fell at slower than freefall speeds'' 110 stories collapsing through themselves in 10-15 seconds is still impossible without explosives. >-"rivers of molten steel'' found at the base of the towers -''Fire = hot. Hot+metal = molten metal.'' even the two official investigations agree that the fire was not hot enough to melt steel and they conveniently left out the reports(video footage)of molten steel. -''Even without accelerants the temperatures definitely were enough to melt aluminum. Think hard for a second and see if you can think of a possible way for tons of alumimum to end up in the WTC.'' aluminum is silver when melted not orange. -''Debris from the collision fell down the center of the building. Was a pretty big impact.'' the building had three seperate sections so this is impossible and none of the investigations claim this. -''Already disproved that. At least one steel-frame skyscraper had its upper structure collapse due to heat (which is exactly what happened with the WTC) and several steel buildings have collapsed due to weakening of the steel.'' your example proved you wrong; you gave an example of a steel highrise that burned hotter and longer and did not collapse aside from the roof.it clearly demonstrates that parts of a building can collapse without causing the whole building to collapse. -''due to a fire that had been burning for hours on the fifth floor. Coupled with damage from falling debris, the building eventually collapsed'' still unexplained by two official investigations -''That's a load of crap! Hundreds of tons of the debris have been analyzed seven ways to Tuesday. The FBI spent months on the site going over the debris.'' it has been well documented that virtually all the steel was immediately shipped overseas to be melted. do your research and fema was prohibited from visiting ground zero. -''Yep; with that much energy you get almost complete pulverization. '' you can't have every floor pulvarized and freefall times -''Why would they fall any differently, if they collapsed from the top down? Gravity pulls straight down, and that's the way things fall unless there is some other force acting on them (which there wasn't.) '' when demolitions bring down a building it is a specialized science, here is how buildings collapse; http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/wtc/collapsecases.html none of your points hold up. "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

it's not that these engineers are part of a conspiracy its that just like most others are unwilling to even question the official story they didn't consider controlled demolition and so they came up with multiple explanations that cannot explain what happened. no one disputes that the two official commitees appointed by the us gov. have been unable to explain building 7. "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

PNAC or project for the new american century bush and his group believe in imminent peak oil, meaning that world oil production is about to peak, they believe without ever increasing oil the american economy will collapse. dick cheney 1999-''By some estimates, there will be an average of two-percent annual growth in global oil demand over the years ahead, along with, conservatively, a three-percent natural decline in production from existing reserves.That means by 2010 we will need on the order of anadditional 50 million barrels a day.'' so their plan plan was to increase the military and take oil by force. but they concluded that the problem is “The process of transformation,” the plan said, “is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event—like a new Pearl Harbor.” there's your motive and self justification. "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

''So what does anyone gain if your theory is correct?'' http://www.americanfreepress.net/12_24_02/America_Pearl_Harbored/america_pearl_harbored.html "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

more from operation northwood ''Destroying an unmanned drone masquerading as a commercial aircraft supposedly full of "college students off on a holiday". This proposal was the one supported by the Joint Chiefs of Staff.'' ''Harassment of civil air, attacks on surface shipping and destruction of US military drone aircraft by MIG type [sic] planes would be useful as complementary actions." "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

nanook ''The plan was proposed by senior U.S. Department of Defense leaders, including the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Lyman Louis Lemnitzer.'' ''The proposal was presented in a document entitled Justification for US Military Intervention in Cuba,[1] a collection of draft memoranda written by the Department of Defense (DoD) and the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) representative to the Caribbean Survey Group. The document was presented by the JCS to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara'' "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

jakee ''The article provided for you right at the beginning of the thread has a complete explanation of why and WTC-7 collapsed as a result of damage from falling debris. '' -jakee fema-''The specifics of the fires in WTC 7 and how they caused the building to collapse remain unknown at this time. ... Further research, investigation, and analyses are needed to resolve this issue. '' nist-admits its "best hypothesis has only a low probability of occurrence. ... "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

despite lots of childish attacks in this thread no one has debunked what i mentioned in the beginning; -puffs of smoke often dozens of floors below the demolition. -freefall speeds; both towards fell in 8-10 seconds which is physically impossible without explosives removing any resistance. -"rivers of molten steel'' found at the base of the towers molten steel seen dripping from one of towers. -experts agree temperatures not hot enough to melt steel. -multiple eye witness accounts of multiple explotions (including video footage of ruble in the basement before any collapse-a fifty ton press demolished in the basement before any collapse) -wtc building 7-a 47 story building mysteriously collapses exactly like a controlled demolition- which the official investigation is unable to explain. -no steel skyscraper has ever or since collapsed due to fire despite much hotter and longer burning fires. -all ruble(evidence) was quickly removed so no one could examine it. -virtually all concrete was pulvarized to dust. all three buildings fell symmetrically into their own footprint. etc. etc. etc. "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

billvon building 7 was not hit by any plane nor were there any floors ''pancaking'' yet there are still visible puffs. please explain "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

billvon ''debris, and concrete dust, and paper, and dirt'' so the compressing air created concrete dust, that makes even more sense. "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs

''If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier - just so long I'm the dictator''-G.W.Bush http://www.newsgateway.ca/bush_dictator.htm "Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs