MotherGoose

Well said. What's the general number of Tandem rigs at the average DZ?? We have 7 Sigma rigs, so on the really busy days . . . we're scrambling. You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

Amen to that . . . only one problem . . . we wanna jump too !!! But to make the coin, you need to live on the mat!!! You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

You've got that right . . . if you think you are going to come to STI to PRO pack student gear, you'll be sadly disappointed. That's what happened to a certain individual from Burnaby this year when he came to pack for us. He tried and tried, but our DZO won't budge. PRO packing tandems is strictly forbidden, end of story. I guess when we all have our own DZ we can run it any way we please, until then, I'll fly by their rules, even if I don't particularily agree with them. You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

There is nothing fun about flat packing ZP elliptical tandems. I only have experience with Sigma, but the set-400 sounds way worse. I personally would have difficulty PRO packing a 400 sq.ft. canopy without a drophook. I guess we all get good at our own artform and there are safe and not-so-safe ways of doing both. You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

Well said . . . I totally agree. Speed is one thing, but sometimes it just gets out of hand. And yes, parachutes want to open, but why increase your chances of a mal? You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

Because I flat pack all the time, I can honestly say that quartering the slider is not difficult at all when your stack is already laying on the floor. Its a matter of pulling it right up to the stops, then lifting your rear riser line sets and tucking the slider in deep on both sides. I can't say that the slider is any more loose this way than if you quarter in a PRO pack. You may have it quartered nicely when you are still standing, but once you place the canopy on the floor, the slider will come down a bit from the stops inevitabely. Or at least it seems like it would a little. You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

Is that true?? I figure if you do a proper (stack) flat pack (A on B on C on D), the canopy is oriented to fly straight and on-heading? I could be wrong. You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

Based on the poll results, P.R.O. packing is the clear cut winner in popolarity. So if mal rates are similar, do we choose PRO over flat based on speed, and getting the rig back in the air as fast as possible?? EDIT : I'm not the fastest packer by any means, but I can flat pack a sigma tandem in ten minutes (safely), if i have to. But if I recall from an older thread, some people are PRO packing tandems in 5 minutes or less ?? You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

Aren't the elastics a bit redundant though?? I put my steering lines ( all 8 ) down the middle as the very last thing I do before bringing up my slider and cigar-rolling (flat pack). Isn't that enough?? I suppose the stowing elastics would be much more beneficial for the P.R.O. pack as you said, when you transition from shoulder to floor, you want to have the least amount of movement or disturbance in your lines. You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

I think the PRO method has a larger margin for mals, when you are transitioning from the shoulder/drophook to the floor. This is where you could cause a really big mess in your pack and not even know it because its already rolled. We've all rushed packjobs to keep up with the loads going up, and I guess rushing and skipping steps is the leading cause of mals, not packing technique. But . . . is rushing a PRO pack worse than rushing a flat pack ??? That is the question. You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

Maybe I should contact someone at PA and demo a Nitron. It sounds like a great canopy. You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

So its not SOP for Sigma ??? You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

Was the change in packing method done at the same time as a change in the packer or supervisor. That could explain the mal rate change aswell... Something to consider as well I guess, the change was made before my time, so I can't be certain if the packers changed. They are talking about pro packing in the new sigma manual. Robert This is just it. The manual says to PRO pack, then Mr. Booth says Is anyone else confused ?? You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

Flat packing slippery ZP elliptical's is no fun, but very possible. Rolling the air out, tail to nose before starting is crucial. I've never heard of the technique of stowing the steering lines to C lines, I'm going to look into this, it sounds interesting. We use an elastic to stow the slider to C line, that's pretty common for a little extra snivel. You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

But we've all seen tiny chicks who can pack with the best of them (or better) also. Packing has nothing to do with strength, it has everything to do with leverage. Free packing lessons and free pack jobs also have everything to do with hot skydiver chicks. You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

I said it would "indicate" that they are to be P.R.O. packed because there are no packing tabs. This was a very unsubstantiated claim and I take it back. The assumer in me made that statement. You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

I need to know if there are stats out there somewhere that can illustrate the highest malfunction rate of each kind of pack job? At my DZ, we are only allowed to flat pack tandems. The rigs are Sigma and they are elliptical with no packing tabs which would indicate that RWS designed them to be P.R.O. packed, yet we flat pack because I was told the mal rate dropped significantly when the change was made. (at my DZ) If this is an old played out topic, I apologize, but the information is very valuable to me. Please state the tandem system, packing technique and whether or not you agree with your DZ's choice for using this technique. Thanks. You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

AMEN TO THAT . . . you should put that on a t-shirt. the first jump on a friday afternoon or saturday morning is enough to completely erase a weeks worth of work-related stress. Good call. You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

I have - but only once. She really didn't want to do it, was nervous on the ground and once she landed, she said she hated it, and the look on her face seemed to agree. I've heard stories of other people who were pressured into a tandem and were in tears. I can't say that that sounded like a positive experience for the person involved, either - or the tandem master for that matter. That said, I love skydiving. You could say that I'm addicted. There is nothing else like it, but as others have said, it's not for everyone. If you're not sure, maybe visit your local dropzone for a bit and just hang out, watch and talk to people. Most whuffos I've met that hang out at dropzones eventually go for a jump and love it. If you visit a dropzone and still don't feel the need to do it, then it's very probably not for you. Edit: Fixed broken formatting. Just to add to that, there have been a few S/L students and a couple of tandems that I can recall that were not impressed with the whole experience because they were injured on their first jump. Thats usually a good way to put a damper on the fun. You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

I thought you wingsuit flyers were FAST !!!! You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

Brettski74 - Do your Solo CoP jumpers rent the same gear that is used by people on your student progression? Yes, we've got only about 4 or 5 BOC rentals and they are the same rigs used by students in their progression. We have a disclaimer stating that students must understand that their rental was most likely packed by a novice, and they are free to repack it themselves if they don't feel it is safe. voltage - How much experience did you have when you started packing for other people? How many packers do you have around your DZ? Just curious because I just started to consider this as a possibility to earn some more jumps next year. I started packing student rigs for money at my DZ not long after passing the course and receiving my endorsement, maybe a month. I found all the extra packing to be very helpful in keeping me current, because if you don't pack often after you've first learned, it is very easy to forget certain steps and safety checks. There is a shortage of packers at my DZ, and I'm sure that is not uncommon at all DZ's. Packing is not the most glamorous part of the sport, but if you are looking for a job at a DZ to help pay for jumps, there is no better palce to look than the packing mat, there are usually always openings. You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

This is one of my personal favourites . . . see attached. You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

..... couldn't have said it better myself . You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

You're absolutely right Louise. It's your choice to take the packing course, and it's good initiative. There are many benefits to it that you already listed but you forget a good one . . . when your a student, and your getting nailed with all the student jump fees, you can pack for money to offset some of those costs. Packing has paid for all of my jumps this year (nearly 100). Its a great form of income on the dropzone and its something that a lot of people don't want to do, so you're always in demand. You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

No argument here about how over-priced the packing courses are. I like the setup of the course and the opportunity to teach people. I have learned so much this past summer by teaching packing, it has really helped me develop my own knowledge of gear and packing. If the STI course was 30 or 40 bucks, instead of $85, I think it would be a greater value to the students. (that statement may very well get me fired) I still think that there should be some fee for a structured course that someone takes time out of their busy schedule to conduct, but I also agree that it should be OPTIONAL. There . . . we've come across some common ground now. And yes, the wording in the PIM's does not indicate anything mandatory about a packing course, I just hope that all students are not led to believe that it is . . . You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.