jacketsdb23

That looks like it would work as well. I think the dividing line would have to be clear that if you aren't past point X, no big turn. Just as with the pattern we're doing at byron it needs to be clear. We use a pump house that we have in the field as a visual. Its not an end all to canopy collisons, that is a risk we all take when getting out of a plane. However, I think both of these methods can decrease the amount of 270º turns coming through slower traffic. Have a specific area set up for the swoopers. If a traditional pattern canopy goes into that area, warning or grounding. If a swooper pulls the big turn in the traditional pattern area same deal. Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy.

Jerry, in your opinion does this work up in Oregon? What are the positive and/or negatives of this setup up there? I like this setup in Byron. Its taking some time to get everyone on the same page especially some people that have jumped there for many years. However, I like the idea of having one area designated for swooping. Having the two different patterns starts to separate those wishing to do HP landings and those wishing to 'traditional' landings right from opening. The no fly zone extends upward to 1000'. Its nice to have both patterns looking at each other on base. If a swooper can't make it over to the swooping pattern (bad spot?) that 180º or higher turn is prohibited. One negative of this setup is when winds change. Everyone looks at the marked up aerial photo (dictates HP landing Pattern and Traditional landing Pattern) before loading on the plane. If winds change then people can get confused. The system isn't perfect yet but I believe it will go a long way to put the focus on swoopers vs. non swoopers when landing. This system is much better than putting both swoopers and non swoopers in the same pattern. Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy.

I have replaced my post because it was taken off with the guns discussion. This is the landing pattern we have started using at Byron. Does anyone see a reason this (the attached sketch) can't be a basis for change at other DZ's? If we allow swooping in one 'area' only, everyone can avoid that area. Keep the swooping area as a separate 'pattern'. If the swoopers can't get into 'the swoopers pattern' all HP landings are aborted and traditional, predictable, 90º approaches are used. In the attached sketch (modified from SIM Section 4, Cat. C), you could designate a point in the landing field and rotate the no fly zone according to wind direction. Or as others have pointed out the bigger DZ's only have two directions to land anyway, which would make it even easier. Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy.

How about the following layout I've attached. This is from the SIM, Section 4, Category C modified slightly for our discussions here. Say we have one moderate sized landing area. Why not divide it down the middle with the no fly zone and give one side to the swoopers. If a swooper (for whatever reason) can't get themselves into "their" pattern on "their" side then high performance turns are not permitted (read anything over 90º). This makes for one 'area' only to do high performance turns. Everyone else can stay away if there is a designated area. Combine this with education to all jumpers on why the changes are being made from current DZ landing patterns. This would allow for HP turns even on 'normal' loads. This is basically the set-up we have started at Byron. There was some confusion early but its getting better every week. Rotate the NO FLY zone along the wind line. Always splitting the area in two. Better yet would be to have two physically separated landing area's for the two types of landings we're discussing. Maybe not the answer, but possibly a start? Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy.

Hey KR7...I jump at Byron but have been to Lodi and Davis. You will find good people and facilities at each place. Each has its own vibe and my advise would be to check them all out and then decide for yourself where you would want to continue to jump. Personally, I jump at Byron because I've got a great group of friends there and people look out for each other. I like the vibe. Lots of Byron Love out there. If you have any questions - feel free to ask. Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy.

You guys can all come jump at Byron If your limitation was 15 steady gusting to 18 you would not get a lot of jumps in...ever. You would have to choose among the other DZ's in the area. That being said, after a year of jumping over there, you get a feeling for which winds to jump in and which to sit back and watch. I got yelled at very early for jumping in some winds a little to aggressive for my experience. Everything went fine, but you won't see me do it again. As the saying around there goes....3000 wind mills can't be wrong. Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy.

unfortunately, most of these recent accidents involve highly skilled pilots who make dumb mistakes. 270's have no place in the traditional landing pattern. A traditional pattern has no place with 270's. Separate the landing area's at each DZ and ENFORCE the landing patterns. IMO, two strikes and you sit until you are educated enough to understand the problem. I don't think education was the problem in the past few accidents. However, education in canopy flying is severely needed. We have just changed the landing set-up at Bryon (separating HP and "traditional" patterns) and you wouldn't believe how many people just don't get it. There is a lack of knowledge at the most basic level. People laughed at the poll that was up some time back about right hand vs. left hand pattern. There is definitely a problem. Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy.

Thanks for being open to suggestions. I know there is no easy answer but if there is a better option out there, maybe there is enough experience here to find it. The landing area is big enough that maybe even separation is not needed. There is always the option for anyone to land out in the corner of the field. This might be the simplest answer. What I was hoping for was discussion, and that is happening. Thanks. Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy.

Let me first state that I love this boogie! Last year was my first year...BUT... This may be way pre-mature, and not even posted in the correct category, however...in light of the past 4 months of canopy collisions and near misses resulting in fatalities at large boogies are there any indications that landing area's will be segregated at LP's 40th anniversary this year? {PLENTY of space to do so} Or are HP landings going to be restricted in any way? I don't recall any collisions last year, but I can certainly say that I sat down a couple days (enjoying some fine Skydiver Blonde) because I was getting cut off left and right. Just a thought as I know this will be the next major boogie I attend. I know Fred is on here somewhere! Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy.

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Yes, exactly what I was thinking when I posted above. Said much nicer here! Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy.

You're going to see a lot of people start quitting skydiving if people don't slow the fuck up when landing in traffic. Some people may quit when they realize the risk management is no longer at an acceptable level. There a couple reasons for this as some have already mentioned: 1. You get married and have kids - the risk is no longer acceptable as you are looking after others. 2. Other interests 3. You no longer *feel* safe, whether that risk is real or perceived. I for one know that I for the most part have *felt* safe because I believe in my abilities to make the right decisions, inspect my gear, and deal with situations in a calm manner. I have only been actively jumping for the past year but grew up on the DZ. What I do know is that I have no way of stopping someone from running into me at 60mph during a 270, even if I've flown the pattern correctly, checked for traffic, and have the highest level of training. That bothers me. I don't like that I can't control that. I am going to be much more selective where and when I jump, especially when I see landing patterns not enforced. I always know that canopy collisions can happen. But it is out of control and I can see why some may walk away. The people that are supposed to be teaching and leading the skydiving community are increasingly showing poor judgment. I see this being a serious risk to the overall health of the sport of skydiving. People are going to walk away when they no longer think they control there own fate in this sport. People used to just kill themselves. Now they are taking others with them. These accidents shouldn't be happening and they certainly shouldn't be happening at the rate and with the experience involved. It should make everyone think twice. We aren't in this sport to die. We enjoy life to much for this shit to be happening. Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy.

I didn't pull my reserve handle. YIKES Bad habbit. If I were you I'd pull it anyway. Its a quick way to get grounded at places I've jumped. Emergencies are all about muscle memory. Imagine you have a few emergencies and each time you pull the cutaway your skyhook pulls out the reserve, you think ahhhhh no need to pull the reserve. Two months down the road you borrow gear without a skyhook. Same thing as you describe (canopy collapses) happens at 1000ft. You cutaway and don't pull your reserve handle right away because of your previous experience. You're now a discussion in the incident forums. Anyway, glad you made it out ok on this one. Pull your reserve handle everytime. Sorry, this is a pet peeve of mine. Thanks for listening. Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy.

I never pay for a packer but if I did, I would set the brakes, uncollapse the slider and cock my pilot chute. I wouldn't do it for the packers benefit but for my own peace of mind in the airplane. Those seem to be the three most important items. Now if the canopy comes out of the D-bag and looks like a ball of S**t...we'll i'll kick my own ass for paying someone to pack something that I jump out of an airplane with Somebody ask Chop Chop if you should cock the pilot chute before giving your rig to someone else to pack..... hmmmm...and he already had the name chop chop before that [those] incidents... Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy.

I didn't do a tandem and my father was a tandem instructor. Tandem's are great for some people. Not me. It really depends on your personality and how well you can remain in control at 120mph. I'm sort of a hypocrite. I think Tandems are a great tool for first time jumpers especially if you really tell the instructors that you want to be involved. For some reason I just can't do one. Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy.

Wow, this has been a shitty week. I'm supposed to be on a plane right now back to California. I was to have a fun filled weekend of jumping. Unfortuneately my plane here in Memphis is not cooperating. Got on board and one of the call buttons got stuck. Constant Ding! Ding! Ding!...SO LOUD. I'm SO pissed off. We got off the plane and now we have to wait for contract maintenance to fix the problem. oh nice, i'm looking out the window and our luggage is being taken off the plane....shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit. Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy.

yeah does suck john! Thanks for the offer but we covered enough of the area that I think its pretty much pointless at this point. On a more happy note...my girlfriend bought me a new Neptune for Valentines Day!!!! WooooHooooo Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy.

Monkey, no luck with the diving. But I saved a beer for ya. Police report filed. Checking to see if any of the items can be covered under a retail insurance claim with the credit card...anyone have any experience/knowledge with this? Unfortunately don't have renters insurance and I only had liability on my car...all the gear combined (and a watch that was in there) was worth more than my car. bummer Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy.

Hey I appreciate the offer. I'm 6'0 about 185lbs. I'm going to give it a couple days and see what turns up if anything. I am currently gearing up for a dumpster diving evening with a 12 pack and some buddies. Well I probably won't be jumping in any dumpsters but definitely strolling the neighborhood and see what I might find. Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy.

I have a Ford Explorer. So it was in the "trunk", with tinted windows, but visible with a flashlight. Also, it was exactly a smash & run. Left everything but what they could reach through the window. Guess I'll have some fun looking at pawn shops tonight. Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy.

I'll give it a shot...lots of dumpsters in SF. I wouldn't even know where to begin. Well on the plus side, at least my rig was not in there. Not sure why I just didn't take everything out. Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy.

yeah...well WHEN you do park at my place again, just make sure nothing valuable is in there. Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy.

It happened on Jones St. between Washington and Clay. Right in front of two fucking hotels. Video from one hotel is too grainy to see anything. I'm going to follow up with them this evening. The other hotel has no video in that area. At the end of the day its my fault for leaving shit like that in my car. It just sucks that there are people like that out there. Its not like they can even do anything with it. My feeling is they took it, realize what it is and toss it in a dumpster. Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy.

Ok, so I'm an idiot and left my gear bag locked in my car. A smashed window later and 1 stolen gear bag later.....i'm left with almost nothing. My rig is safe (always take that out of my car) but this is what is missing: 1 bonehead helmet w/ pro dyter 1 parachute de france altimeter (miami vice altimeter as Ficus calls it) wrist mount 1 Tony (brand new) RW suit w/ booties. Colors: red/black w/ yellow grippers 1 Bomber FreeFly suit. Colors: Teal/Yellow w/ Grey outline 1 Log Book - w/ 210 jumps logged. 1 SIM 1 IRM 2 pairs of Goggles 1 Red gear bag Not really expecting to get it back but in case someone come across a craigslist post or Ebay post thought I'd put it out there. Fuck Marcel Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy.

I'm so there. Can't wait...even if it means forcing myself to...*cough* get sick for a week. Its not like my boss knows that i'll be in LP for a week. Well maybe except that i'll be unreachable...hmmmm Maybe I need to come down with ebola or something. Anyway..someone already said it...somehow someway i'll be there. Amazon Bolas (somehow, someway) Smile grimmie Guppie01 Jacketsdb23 Lauraliscious madjohn McBeth monkycndo NDfallrate NWFlyer SeaKev Selbbub78 (possibility... convince me) Shell666 (just in case something fun happens) Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy.