DSE

Do you own a version 1, 2, 3,4,5,6,7,8, 9,10,11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, or a lucky 17? We own two RED ONE's and are grateful that they're on a rental that we haven't seen for a few months. I've seen three trouble-free RED cams in project work, and one of them was operated by a DIT that probably has forgotten more about the inner/outer workings of his camera than I'll ever know, eh Brooke? it is indeed finally solidifying, but as RED stands now, it's still Jonestown. No serious project that hasn't enjoyed significant subsidation from Jim Jannard has yet produced using a RED-only system, AFAIK. Still...it's definitely changed the market landscape. Watch for more excitement at NAB in a few months.

Curiously enough, I wondered in a PM with someone earlier today, whether this might be a cultural gap issue, how we're looking at this. But to stick to the facts as best I know them to be (I'm not an organizer, just the guy that sucked in all the video and a lot of the stills).... Linda Dee won't allow her photos to be carte blanche published. Nick Stern has released what few he's freely releasing. Dunno about Scotty's feelings, I was told not to publish anything without specific permission and he's flying now... I only have a few of OB's pix, but my understanding is he's keeping his for private sale. Norman Kent won't allow any of his to be published, period. I haven't spoken to Matt, and none of his photos were transferred to the master system which I kept exclusively in my possession until late last night/early this morning. Scott Campos' event was a bigger priority for me than worrying about asking the photogs for permission to post their work. There are several photos that from what I saw, fit the criteria, but I never saw them laid under the grid. That was done in another room on another computer by the captains. Although I honestly don't know anything about what is being looked at, done with, measured in the photos, I suspect we can all agree that the images will undergo incredible scrutiny, so I'd imagine that the organizers want to be sure they have crossed all the t's and dotted all the i's before releasing it to the general public. To reiterate my point to James earlier, questioning the measurement of a formation using a tool that effectively still doesn't exist, is valid and expected, IMO. This was an experiment. I don't know what hypothesis (if any) can be drawn from it. What I do know, is that based on several comments last night coupled with PM's, is that the almost immediate demand for evidence and the way it has been presented as a challenge to the validity of the event, coupled with the pre-event "authority agency" banter and bullshit equally appears to be a challenge of the skills and integrity of those that participated. I'm sure that's not really the case, but it appears that way to more than a few people. It was a grand event. Nothing like it has before been attempted nor achieved. FAI, USPA, Guiness not withstanding, everyone from the top to the bottom worked very, very hard to achieve what many said could not be done. Until the tight 16 ways recently performed, who has ever seen anything this slot-specific, this symmetrical in a large formation before? Would it be FAI-acceptable? Probably not. Because no unit of accurate, verifiable measurement currently exists. Apparently there are a few skydivers out there that claim to know the secret of how to measure this and gain FAI acceptance. If that's so, I sure wish they'd share it if having FAI-endorsement is that important to the community. My parting shot is that: A-it seems everyone is working towards the same goal, but working against each other so they can have personal credit for the action. B-I gained a lot of knowledge on this event. Far more than I expected to learn. Between the friendships fostered, the jumps, and the observation of the organization...I'm a far richer person for it.

Let's keep the discussions going in the already-existing threads, please? Thx for using the search, BTW!

Haven't tried that particular brand/model...but I'd imagine the bandwidth, if like the units I've tried, won't be enough to provide a clean, useful image. I wonder if they'd allow someone to test one?

I think the end jump was 34, not sure...plus 2 camera. We built smaller formations during the day, and then put them together on the last jump. Winds killed most of Saturday.

No, I'm not meaning to turn it into an attack on you. I believe we'll all get farther by asking a lot of questions about how formations will be judged, are judged, etc. Flip side is, I'm disgusted with the people that have sent PM's saying that the work that everyone is doing is a waste of time because *they* are the ones who will make it work with the FAI and the rest of us are idiots because *we* don't know what we're doing. Is it about ego or is it about getting it accomplished? I don't know what the answer is. What we all know is that we don't know the answer. What we all know is that a great effort was undertaken to quanitify something that clearly isn't easily quantifiable. What we also know is that no matter what took place, anything short of an eligible group of judges ratifying the event won't satisfy you or anyone else "passionate" about seeing FAI acceptance. The bigger point, IMO, is that the FAI will never accept something that can't be specifically measured, and up to this point no one has come up with a means of doing so. Asking questions is a good thing, because through the process of elimination, an answer that satisfies most folks will be discovered. I do however, think your attitude needs some adjustment . A group of very skilled, equally passionate, and equally dedicated wingsuit flyers have put together the largest organized, slot assigned formation to date, and rather than having any sense of congraluatory communication, you've pissed on it from the moment it was announced to the moment it was completed. If anything diminishes wingsuiting, it's this immediate attack on the event itself, whether it hit one, both, or neither of the stated goals. Perhaps you've missed that in the aftermath of the very large wingsuit event in Elsinore, another large wingsuit event took place in Eloy. Some of those involved have responsibilities where we need to be traveling or working prior to providing exactly what you are demanding to see in the form that you've demanded to see it. I suppose that's what I'm tweaked about, is that you're demanding to see whatever it is you want to see on your terms on your time. It was only 12 hours ago that I gave the organizers all the pix and video that I had of the event (which is everything shot by everyone except Matt Hoover). It's gonna take em' a while to go through 700GB of data. I sure don't have time to do it right now, I'm on the first leg of a multi-country international travel schedule. I pity Jeff, Taya, Justin, Phil, and Mark...it was a grueling week ending with a grueling weekend in Eloy.

I didn't say there was or wasn't a judge at the event, but as (by your own argument) there is no judging nor governing body, it wouldn't matter if the judge was the local mechanic or Director at USPA, so what difference does/would it make? My question is, "what makes you believe there wasn't an independent person judging the formation?" Seems you demand an argument regardless, as you have since the event was announced.

"Almost" ? The event organizers set the criteria for success before the event - the jumps were performed with the objective to satisfy said criteria. The achievement of said goal becomes digital. That is how it works for all the other skydiving big ways (regardless of the fact whether they dock or not). Declare exactly what you intend to do and then prove that you did it. 399 doesn't cut it on 400 way attempt. Emotional attachment to a record attempt is understandable due to the massive investment in terms of time, money, risk and energy but to do so also makes us ALL lose credibility. The Emperor's New Clothes.. The rules of the FAI have changed so much that now a team can use a frame grab of video (1/30 of a second) to demonstrate grips taken. Even then, you have people arguing about whether it's actually a grip or just a "touch." Saw it happen only yesterday....and at Nationals a couple weeks ago What makes you believe there wasn't? No matter WHAT one does or how hard one tries to do, achieves, or appreciates, there will always be an someone there to say that it wasn't done to satisfaction, was Photoshopped, cheated, rules bent, favored, whatever. Doesn't matter whether we're talking about wingsuiting or Whack a Mole world records...someone will always question it. The level of ego and empty arrogance in this sport makes Hollywood look like kindergarten.

Huh?? Have a new Voodoo II, and it has had several canopy sizes in it. At the moment, I'm jumping a 150 Sabre2, and while it's a tad bumpy, it's less so than most containers I see out there made for a "wide variety of containers." Fits my Storm 150 absolutely perfectly, and fits a 135 Katana like expected. Saw one today at Eloy (same container) with a 120 in it that looked sweet as well, although the BOC seemed to sit higher than I'd personally like. Maybe you haven't seen a real Voodoo? Out of nearly a dozen rigs tried on and jumped, the Voodoo was my pick as most comfortable, best for my needs. Rigging Innovations simply rocks the world at customer service. They're the L&B of container manufacturers in that department.

Day two...much better than day one. First day, winds were high. Today, still high, still gusting in the 20-22 range, but everyone flew. Lots of loads, lots of fun. Several people had left early for reasons varying from weather to travel plans between the Elsinore event and the weekend here. Today the formations worked out very nicely (see pic). Merging the two groups together went quite well, for my side of the formation, Purple Mike was solid. At breakoff, he left like a rocket. This was probably due to the threat of me, Callantine, and Chris Gray burbling him at breakoff. After all, this was probably the last really large/multi-aircraft formation in 2008....we wanted to have some fun, but Mike...we were really just kidding. We were so damn far out in the cotton fields....Veggie landed in the cotton and that poor guy musta spent 15 minutes pulling his lines and fabric outta that stiff, hard crap. And he giggled like a little girl at being in his slot hard and solid in his new TonySuit Raptor (Doesn't say "Veggie" on the ass like his Ghost does tho). At least 3/4 of the load landed off, but it was a very cool jump from 16, 500. BTW, there really are some of us used to jumping from 19,000 MSL, so it wasn't really necessary to force oxygen in the trail plane It was a pleasure to end the last two weeks of hard jumping at this event. There were several flyers that weren't able to be part of the Elsinore flock for any number of reasons that were part of this flock. 's always fun to fly with close friends, but it was equally fun to make new ones. Mark Harris, Costyn...you both are found in the dictionary under the definition of "Gentlemen." Attached is a photo Scotty Burns took about the same moment the formation completed.

For obvious gaps, yes. To say distortion isn't "that big of an issue" is absurd, all respect intended. The distance from edge to edge of the formation coupled with focal length is simply impossible to measure accurately without a benchmark measurement from which to compare, unless as mentioned earlier, a tele lens at full extension is used. I like the idea of flying with 36" foam noodles held as docks between flyers.

None of the above images are intended to be any kind of evidence of anything excepting demonstrating different pupil distortions from the various lenses. I grabbed the photos at random. The shot from Scotty, for example, was the first jump as a group on Monday. Not bad for a bunch of people whom have never been that close to each other before.

I have my doubts that any overhead shot can demonstrate all flyers in their boxes as well. After listening to team captains going on and on for a while about how the formation was flying too tight in width, I asked to see the photo in question and grid. Took all of about .5 seconds for myself and one other person there to attempt to explain lens compression, aspheric, and spatial distortion. Coupled with an APSC sensor, you're going to find a challenge putting it all together without using *some* kind of lens compensation/measurement/repair tool, algorithm, or math. I don't know if it's possible to do from the air, frankly. Matt, Scotty, Norman, Craig were all shooting either ultrawides, wides, and/or wideangle lens adaptors. I was told that "We shot the grid on the ground from about 10' away, and used that as an overlay." Well....shooting the grid from 10' away and then applying that to an image shot 100' away isn't going to make the job of comparing easy nor accurate. We did have a full-frame camera on the ground with a 400mm lens shooting the formation from as near directly below as possible. A tele at full zoom compresses foreground/background, so levels in the formation cannot be determined, but positioning within the formation can be. If it needs any correction for angle compensation at all, it can be angled without affecting the spatial positioning of any wingsuiter in the photo, something that can't readily be done with lens correction plugins/software. Compare this ground to air for width vs air to air shots. Which are more accurate? Could the leading edges truly be that perfectly curved as the air-to-air shot shows? In other words, I don't know how Jeff and Co. measured this into the box, and it's true that Photoshop has accurate and accepted lens distortion removal tools, but will that leave some folks satisfied? Probably not. Here is a very good paper and solution for this problem. FWIW, Jeff and Co. still haven't received copies of the ground to air photos, as I have all of them in my possession. He'll receive all 800+ of them prior to me leaving Eloy later today. I don't envy anyone the task of going through them all.

Setting a downwinder in this wind direction would suggest you were landing in the South landing area; this is the student area, and only to be landed into the wind from north or south. Downwinds are not to be done in that landing area. If you were in the North landing area, this would be a crosswind landing, and generally shouldn't be a problem unless you cross where the LZ is divided in half. There is also a beer line there.

There are a bunch of wingsuits here, Justin Shorb, Scotty Burns, Norman Kent, Costyn, Tero, Jeff Nebelkopf, Taya, Valery, the Grays, Brian Drake, GreyMike, Purple Mike, etc.... Mark Harris' group got up three times with two jumps, Scott Campos' group got in three? jumps, and I think Rolf's group got in three before the winds nailed us down. Gusts from 9 to 26 at various points in the morning, some of us had to ride the Skyvan down due to high winds. BentProp/Skydive AZ had a steak and potato dinner tonight with some cool shades, wingsuit discounts, Tshirts, and other stuff given away. Was a good dinner, and great social opportunity. Hope for lighter winds tomorrow. No one likes to see canopies flying backwards.

No offense, but it always was....pretty low end compression. Nice idea, and if the picture quality isn't important, it's a decent tool.

That is the time to see it...from the air. Wish there were wingsuits on this launch.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I agree with your opinion, Phree. The other side is that if the USPA were to grant the RedBull guys a waiver, they'd have to do the same for others. Face it...most of the RedBull team are outstanding athletes aside from being very gifted skydivers. They probably *can* handle 400' demos without incident. But that doesn't mean that others can. 400' demos from a heli using the BASE gear seems quite safe, actually...safer than a BASE jump, and a jump from 1000' with a 400' opening is likely more safe than a BASE jump from an object as well. I'm sure a well-practiced pro can handle this, as could a unique military team with intense training. Yet...the camel nose/tent story is applicable here, IMO.

Does anyone else occasionally find themselves thinking in web-speak? On occasion, I find myself wanting to insert "IMO" into a spoken comment, among other stupidities.

NDA prevents me from saying more. Suffice it to say that there are threads on the front of the lens.

Wow. Had thought I'd be allowed to keep it long enough for either of the two major wingsuit events this month...but Sony had other ideas and demands. It's nice.

it's not just a Sony feature. It's a twelve hour clock used by most camcorders. It's no different than a CYPRES. Do you get tweaked because you forgot to turn it on? I uploaded a backfocus chart somewhere here on DZ.com...it's on the wlal of our DZ for focusing. It also helps remind videographers to switch to manual.

until I saw this one. I just use a styrofoam wighead. Thought the ad was cute, funny, and (hopefully) a great joke gift...

Patrick, you were awesome! There are suits that are more appropriate for faster moving flocks, IMO that helps with stability as well as fall rate, of course. There were a couple of other suits falling out of the sky here and there too... But with 71 people flying...I can't imagine getting the speed too much faster forward and still getting everyone there. It was a bitch for some in the last plane to just get to the formation, let alone settle into their slot and fly with stability. It was a long, long way (as you saw). Having all the various suits there was a sweet experience. I sure learned a lot from various guys and their gear.

Really disappointed you left out the Voodoo... After trying a dozen different rigs and having experiences from three manufacturers...I choose the Voodoo from Rigging Innovations. AWESOME customer service no matter what (They fedExced me a PC/Freebag that got to my rigger before I had flown home from a boogie). The Voodoo is very comfortable. It opens very smoothly. My packer told me only yesterday, that of all the rigs he packs, he likes my Voodoo the best because of how the corners are cut and tapered, and how easy it is to close and make neat. So....after all the other rigs I've tried, the only rig I like as much as my Voodoo is an old Eclipse I once had. Super comfy...but they're gone now.