Lucky...

Bad ass. I'm not a movie nut, but I gotta see it. I just wonder why after they took off, why they stayed so long. Brings a whole new def to "ground effect."

And there shows more naiveté; kidnapping usually requires you move a person so many feet. What you're trying to say is that you could be charged with illegal or wrongful detention. I wouldn't worry about that, but using your example I wouldn't shoot him in the back as he's fleeing. The difference is that the alleged flag burner was at home, so your example is jokingly invalid.

To what? Are you affraid to post what you're talking about? Follow the thread, use the "In reply to" option. Think it through. If you want to go back to make your point, go for it - I'm all ears.

Let me restate: You shouldn't because guns can come into play here. I can't tell you what your opinion s/b, but I like thought-provoking conversation. Notice how people run from definitions, data and other objective source? People have set opinions and they look for othe rpeople who support these opinions rather than other information. Just as I used to group GHWB with Reagan and GWB, it is a fashionable thing to do to group all of teh opposing party together and hate em all. GHWB, based upon data and history wasn't a neo-con, hence OBJECTIVELY I don't group him in even tho some of my fellow Dems do. He's here making some fairly bold statements as to how the law works and he is wrong. He is extremely flamboyant about it, making sarcastic remarks so I gave some back via telling him he doesn't understand the law. After he told me a couple times I don't understand the real world. His was initial, mine was in response. Yea, when ya move from the issue to me and make me the issue. Absolutely. Yep, is that a mystery? You've jumped with Lou and others, it is a tight-knit community with a pecking order. If anyone thinks there isn't a DZCOM clique and a clique at every DZ or any group of people I will pretty much disregard anything that person says; it's human nature to establish an order. " If we took a legal IQ test I would tripple most people here" " My legal understanding dwarfs yours." In response to Lou repeatedly sarcastically saying he was going to get another beer, that was not unsolicited. None of those were belittling in their context. I just respond when addressed. So does volume establish stirring shit or can it be done with 1 post? I don't think shit-stirring is a volumetric measure, but a qualitative measure. Part of the law is to create a record, from this record we can determine a person's fitness to hold certain licenses. It would do society a big favor if the people, the courts, the system would record people's actions so we know who to avoid in certain occupations.

To use your term, you don't live in the real world. I have had cases refused to be written by high-level cops/detectives. Here's a scenario from 20 years ago: I was a civilian working at an Air Force Base in ND. I was dating a girl and there was a complicated love quadrangle that finally burst, it involved a set of twins of whom I had been with both and the BF of the other was pissed, volumes more info. Anyway, I was sitting in a Burger King on the AFB at lunch and the two nuts came in, he was pissed talking shit, standing above me as I sat eating. I ignored him and he then fired an uppercut and blew my face open. I then spun around in my chair, got up, grabbed the chair and launched it at him. He blocked it and it broke his arm. I grabbed another one and was gonna come over the top and be done with him, but I thought for a second and realized he had retreated and that was what I wanted, I put the 2nd chair down. Cops come out, take the reports from the 30 guests in the restarant, arrest him and I get stitches. Go to talk to the prosecutor and she said she didn't want to prosecute, I said I would go to the AG, she then said she would put on some lame prosecution against him and really come after me. I said I wanted to see the witness statements she was huddled on top of. She said, "you will never see these." WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD, LOU BABY, TRY NOT TO GET IN THE WAY OF PEOPLE WHO KNOW HOW THE SYSTEM ACTUALLY WORKS. Just have another beer and post for fun. The alleged crime belongs to the state, they can take a report on it or refuse to, they can prosecute it or refuse to. I think the fact that the twins went to the prosecutor to lie their ass off had an impact as well as the fact that we were transient working temp in that area. However, if it weren't buttfuck ND, not unlike this BF town, I think there would be a prosecution. LOU, once again telling us how much you don't know. CITIZENS CANNOT FILE CHARGES, THEY MUST MAKE A POLICE REPORT AND HOPE THE PROSECUTOR FILES THEM, whether a direct file or by a Grand Jury via a True Bill, of course the latter is used for more serious felonies. But of course you knew that. And I'm sure you have vast life experiences, just not in the legal arena. AHHH, the plot gets thicker, this is really getting good dear readers. We have just seen more insight into the "why" of the misguided main characters penchant for finding fault with the system and his subsequent stance and insistence that an injustice occurred. His own demons blind him, yet he thinks his path is the righteous one. His kryptonite are the words "PROSECUTORIAL DISCRETION".One day, he will make an excellent prosecutor as he will prosecute every and all fractures of the letter of the law. (fade to black) Your ornate language is undermined by your lack of understanding of the law, as in people can't file charges, just the government. Thx for posting nothing constructive. The example was just to demonstrate that just because no charges were filed or a police report taken, that doesn't mean this wasn't pursued by the kid. Let me refresh your memory, I am here simply for the sheer amusement of listening to your rantings. I am not here to try and get you to change your position or convince you of anything otherwise. I am not a lawyer, neither are you. I DO know what a prosecuting attorney could do with this case, I also have a pretty good idea why it wasn't pursued. Do you and can you explain to all us "ignant necks and turds" why that is? I'll give you a hint, I mentioned it in one of my previous posts. I'm gonna hit post and go eat me a sammich and get my law learn on by watching an episode of Law and Order. I be back in a few , A'ight? I know why you're here, you lost and now you're just here so as to make us think you didn't concede. I could easily run lower-end cases. I pro per's a case against 2 law firms (there were several defendants) and won a small judgment ($5k). I beat them in arbitration, 1 appealed, I motioned to let that appellant out and it it left the other in and I collected. Procedurally and strategically I could run lower-end cases. I've seen lawyers in court fuck up all over the place, so being a lwayer is like being a skydiver; ratings and jump #'s don't always means that much. Then why did you state that the kid didn't file charges? I as well have a good idea why it wasn't pursued.

As I said, he has his life experiences, probably pretty interesting, I've had mine and many in the legal arena. Is my legal understanding, both codifed and actual more developed? Of course, but I'm not competing with him. The elements are there for criminal charges on both sides. You can't just go and track down people, threaten them and tape them to poles; I don't care if they allegedly killed someone you have to go thru the cops. The idea behind this is many, but primarily to keep the peace. No, I really want to invoke thought. Hell, another guy called me an idiot, you warned him, a guyh in this thread threw out some 1/2 assed effort to call me a pussy and what did I do? Nothing. Now I'm the shit-stirrer? I guess Quade is a shit-stirrer too since we have the same take on this. I'm not taking an opposing view for fun and then flip-flopping later on, I maintain the flag, any flag of any nation is a joke, it's a meaningless representation. But if someone owns that joke then they have the right to not have it burned. If you wanna burn a flag, then go buy one. As for the sentiment behind this, it appears to me that that was an afterthought by Clem, but it still was his property/VFW's property and he had the right to be compensated if teh kid did burn it, but vigilante justice can hurt or kill innocent people and we have no need fo it. If the kid really did burn it I would rather see him prosecuted so we can have a record of him being a criminal and keep him out of various occupations, etc. Fair enough, I've seen a lot of people use it lately.

To what? Are you affraid to post what you're talking about?

I see the other side was iced and done as soon as the definition of coercion came out.

Hi BV If lucky was posting for his own amusement I think he's pleased with the results of his efforts. Folks spit the hook out. BV point scored. And thanks for posting about the issue; it's been gobs of help.

Am I supposed to bow to his greatness? So he gets to jump out of airplanes for free and I spend countless hours in the classroom and courts watching trials. Hmmm, I just watched a guy get 6 death sentences, that was neither via the internet nor any dream world. I_see_that_you_are_done_posting_anything_about_the_case. Too_bad_I_was_curious_as_to_your_take_on_"coercion. BTW_why_is_it_fashionable_to_use_underscores?

To use your term, you don't live in the real world. I have had cases refused to be written by high-level cops/detectives. Here's a scenario from 20 years ago: I was a civilian working at an Air Force Base in ND. I was dating a girl and there was a complicated love quadrangle that finally burst, it involved a set of twins of whom I had been with both and the BF of the other was pissed, volumes more info. Anyway, I was sitting in a Burger King on the AFB at lunch and the two nuts came in, he was pissed talking shit, standing above me as I sat eating. I ignored him and he then fired an uppercut and blew my face open. I then spun around in my chair, got up, grabbed the chair and launched it at him. He blocked it and it broke his arm. I grabbed another one and was gonna come over the top and be done with him, but I thought for a second and realized he had retreated and that was what I wanted, I put the 2nd chair down. Cops come out, take the reports from the 30 guests in the restarant, arrest him and I get stitches. Go to talk to the prosecutor and she said she didn't want to prosecute, I said I would go to the AG, she then said she would put on some lame prosecution against him and really come after me. I said I wanted to see the witness statements she was huddled on top of. She said, "you will never see these." WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD, LOU BABY, TRY NOT TO GET IN THE WAY OF PEOPLE WHO KNOW HOW THE SYSTEM ACTUALLY WORKS. Just have another beer and post for fun. The alleged crime belongs to the state, they can take a report on it or refuse to, they can prosecute it or refuse to. I think the fact that the twins went to the prosecutor to lie their ass off had an impact as well as the fact that we were transient working temp in that area. However, if it weren't buttfuck ND, not unlike this BF town, I think there would be a prosecution. LOU, once again telling us how much you don't know. CITIZENS CANNOT FILE CHARGES, THEY MUST MAKE A POLICE REPORT AND HOPE THE PROSECUTOR FILES THEM, whether a direct file or by a Grand Jury via a True Bill, of course the latter is used for more serious felonies. But of course you knew that. And I'm sure you have vast life experiences, just not in the legal arena. AHHH, the plot gets thicker, this is really getting good dear readers. We have just seen more insight into the "why" of the misguided main characters penchant for finding fault with the system and his subsequent stance and insistence that an injustice occurred. His own demons blind him, yet he thinks his path is the righteous one. His kryptonite are the words "PROSECUTORIAL DISCRETION".One day, he will make an excellent prosecutor as he will prosecute every and all fractures of the letter of the law. (fade to black) Your ornate language is undermined by your lack of understanding of the law, as in people can't file charges, just the government. Thx for posting nothing constructive. The example was just to demonstrate that just because no charges were filed or a police report taken, that doesn't mean this wasn't pursued by the kid.

As how many ever approached him and allegedly gave that as one option of the ultimatum. Again, this is the flowery version of one side, so who knows what was said, I'm sure it was cleaned up a bit for the media by the VFWer. But whne you offer an ass-kicking then the intimidation is on and coercion exists regardless of whatever else was said. Offering the cops doesn't undo the crime or even mitigate it. Right, he voluntarily submitted. How did Clem put it: "Let's just say he volunteered" or something to that effect. That's redneck for 'we fixed em good.' Yea, real volunteer, they track him down and offer up an ass-kicking. That's you, he was obviously under duress. Clem stated via the media that he didn't deny it, but didn't say he admitted it either, and that was his cleaned up version. I believe most of what the vets said via the media. They hunted him down, gave him options via an ultimatum and the kid cracked under durress and gave in. I don't believe the cops were and option, but it doesn't really matter, once the threat was made it was coerced. You're the one who thinks once you threaten someone that doesn't create a hostile, coercive environment.

So, in this situation, you would have answered the door and said "Sir, I fucked up. I was drunk and not thinking. There is no excuse for my disrespect. I am ashamed of myself and would like to know how I can make it right." Good for you. Perhaps you can put that 6-word quote in some context. It's fun to know what you're trying to say, more fun for me to know it too.

Ah, "fairy" tale!

No he didn't, Clem said he didn't deny it; are you not able to read? A d let's see, Clem might be likely to embellish his way a bit. How do you know? He may have tried to, he may just want to get this behind him. I think we can agree that he didn't want to be taped to the pole. The vets gave him the ultimatum of 3 things of which at least 1 was violence, that's garden variety coercion to say the least. Very abstract. What if you give me an ultimatum and it includes all derogatory things, 1 of which is violence? That's coercion and others. We don't know his actions or wishes. We know the thugs went to the house and took this kid out and taped him to a pole, and that an ultimatum was given to play ball or a beating was possible.

http://instantrimshot.com/

Make a point or move along...... or just keep posting to keep the clique happy.

To use your term, you don't live in the real world. I have had cases refused to be written by high-level cops/detectives. Here's a scenario from 20 years ago: I was a civilian working at an Air Force Base in ND. I was dating a girl and there was a complicated love quadrangle that finally burst, it involved a set of twins of whom I had been with both and the BF of the other was pissed, volumes more info. Anyway, I was sitting in a Burger King on the AFB at lunch and the two nuts came in, he was pissed talking shit, standing above me as I sat eating. I ignored him and he then fired an uppercut and blew my face open. I then spun around in my chair, got up, grabbed the chair and launched it at him. He blocked it and it broke his arm. I grabbed another one and was gonna come over the top and be done with him, but I thought for a second and realized he had retreated and that was what I wanted, I put the 2nd chair down. Cops come out, take the reports from the 30 guests in the restarant, arrest him and I get stitches. Go to talk to the prosecutor and she said she didn't want to prosecute, I said I would go to the AG, she then said she would put on some lame prosecution against him and really come after me. I said I wanted to see the witness statements she was huddled on top of. She said, "you will never see these." WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD, LOU BABY, TRY NOT TO GET IN THE WAY OF PEOPLE WHO KNOW HOW THE SYSTEM ACTUALLY WORKS. Just have another beer and post for fun. The alleged crime belongs to the state, they can take a report on it or refuse to, they can prosecute it or refuse to. I think the fact that the twins went to the prosecutor to lie their ass off had an impact as well as the fact that we were transient working temp in that area. However, if it weren't buttfuck ND, not unlike this BF town, I think there would be a prosecution. LOU, once again telling us how much you don't know. CITIZENS CANNOT FILE CHARGES, THEY MUST MAKE A POLICE REPORT AND HOPE THE PROSECUTOR FILES THEM, whether a direct file or by a Grand Jury via a True Bill, of course the latter is used for more serious felonies. But of course you knew that. And I'm sure you have vast life experiences, just not in the legal arena.

When Lucky had the OPTION of joining the military he really means he was COERCED. Why else would he have joined? Psssst, we all know everyone is really out to get him so lets act like it is not so. He won't know what happened. I was 17, no one threatened me to be beat down or go in, that was a voluntary event. You guys are desperate.

My current teacher for my paralegal class in a prosecutor and has a private practice. I've dealt with lawyers, sat in on 6-month trial recently, has many, many lawyer teachers, etc. Not to mention a BS in Justice. And in jails, same thing and they are constitutionally protected as being able to practice in that realm. Of course I did win a civil case against 2 law firms in a Conversion case pro per, but of course you know whatthat means........Lou goes and looks it up real fast...... of course I know what conversion is. Oh and collect? Yes, I got a certified copy of the judgment with an information letteer and posted it with the county recorder. But that's just me being a shithouse lawyer who wins against lawyers and othe professionals....what do I know? Hardly. If we took a legal IQ test I would tripple most people here other than the lawyers on the forum. Your idea is like saying a jumper with 1000 jumps is no more experienced thana jumper with 100 jumps. Also, the fact that no one is touching the definition of COERCION says plenty. Hillarious. I have 3 spanning 3 years each. PRESS CHARGES shows your naivety. The crime belongs to the state, not to you or him in this case. The PRESSING of charges term just shows the desire of the reporting individual. As well, you don't know that the kid hasn't visited the cops or doesn't have the desire to press. That we know of. That means all rape victims who didn't report also weren't raped as they were too afraid to face their abusers. I posted what I read, how have I gone outside that? You have made assumptions. Wrong, I am the one saying the legal process is the correct one, you are promoting do-it-yourself justice. Further evidence you are out of gas is that you are turning this to me rather than keeping it to the issue. Again, show me how I've deviated from the news printings. I've obviously dviated from the DZ.COM good ole boy club, but show how I've taken what is written and deviated.

Elusive behavior is yours. Not sure if you called me one or not, in my years if someone wanted to call me one they would just do it, so I assume you are not. Lots of experience with people calling you a puss? That sucks. Nope, I'm just saying I'm used to dealing with men who would come out and say it to whomever rather than veiling some ridicilous 300 page rant and saying everything but that.

It's the media's direct quote "" "" of what the old guy from the VFW said, pretty reliable as it is libel if wrong. The quotes make it believable. Whereas we have NOTHING from the kid, but you are willing to buy into assumptions or what the old guy said he said: hearsay. 1) No evidence the kid burned the flag, in fact, Clem even said said: "I found him on Sunday and I duct taped him to the flag pole," Normile said bluntly. "He didn't deny it, said he was drunk. Let's just say he volunteered to sit out here duct taped to the pole." That's redneck for: We fixed him real good (Deliverance banjos play in the background) 2) The young man was given three choices: get turned over to the police, go one-on-one in a fight with a seasoned war veteran, or be duct-taped to a flagpole for six hours with a sign around his neck identifying his alleged crime: flag burning. Pretty compelling to me. If it was wrong it would make a real good libel suit, so if no retraction is posted or a suit is filed I think that's pretty reliable. Yes, Bill, because I'm not willing to uproot my life, go to NY and fight this matter I have no legal standing in, the case somehow has no merit. That makes all kinds of sense. And because all of the attrocities that occur in Asia, Africa and elsewhere go unchecked by you, they really don't happen. And I expect you to continue to avoid the defintion of COERCION which I have posted numerous times, as it would be impossible to describe the actions of Clem and Jeb an not fall into it. The IT was the definition of COERCION. As for more or less accurate, the media report is pretty compelling in that they can be sued if incorrect. And they call the kid an alleged flag burner but quote and cite Clem's actions. The kid can't sue over the Alleged and Clem can't sue unless they misquote him or misrepresent him. The IT, again, was the definition of COERCION. Bill, I don't think I have seen you argue like this, normally you have the evidence and substance on your side ratherthan argue rhetoric and emotion. I guess everything has it's first time.

1) According to the guy who abducted the kid and taped him to a ploe. 2) Even if that was offered, if violence is offered up, this is a case of coercion. Having a 3rd, 4th , 5th option isn't relevant, they came to his door and gave him options of which 1 was violence. But if someone gives me an ultimatum that one of the things that might happen is violence, hence do it our way, that is coercion. This was not an offer, it was an ultimatum. Going to someone's house after tracking them down, offering/giving an ultimatum of violence is worlds from a group of guys meeting at a sanctioned arena to fight. I may have paraphrased thjis being an offer, but that would be lowballing it, this was an ultimatum.

I understand, you don't care about coercion, constitutional due process, thuggery; you;re just here to defend the vets regardless of any/all laws. As well, I really think your understanding of statute is limited anyway. Address coercion as Iposted it in regard to the VFWer. Please, don't let me confuse the issue with facts and the reality of the situation. I would hate for you to loose your focus on the laws in your mind/world and your interpretations of them. Frankly, after hearing how you were done an injustice at the traffic intersection, I'm surprised you're not down at City Hall giving a class on the Law to the local authorities. Please continue to enlighten us with your wisdom on the law and definitions of words since we all have such a limited understanding of them. I'm gonna hit "post" now since I need to run to the fridge and grab another Guinness but I will check back to find out what color the sky is in your world as it is all SOOOO interesting to hear you tell it.

That doesn't mitigate the coercion. And again, we have to believe the hunter and abductor. I believe most of what he says, but no one says, "fight a vet" they say, we can kick your ass or we can tape you to a pole. Either way it doesn't matter, all that matters is once violence is an option, that person is under the intimidation of the criminals. I'm ok with it that you can't see that, but it is a legal standard and of teh many trials I've seen, that would fly as an element of threats, intimidation, coercion. Based on the words of the guy who tracked this kiid down, likely a group of them, and taped him to a pole with a sign that endangered him from angry passersby. Again, once intimidation was introduced, everything from that point was coerced, doesn't matter if they offered him a trip to Disneyland.