Zipp0

Just because you can smell it doesn't mean it is harming you. When I put my dog out I can smell shit, but it's not the same as eating it. Huh? Rich people don't smoke? I would put forward that this has nothing at all to do with it. The primary factor seems to be - did your parents smoke. Mine did, which seemed to lead me to it. And realisticly, do you think people WANT to smoke? I hate it. I hate spending $5 a pack on killing myself. Studies have shown that it is more addictive than heroin, and I believe it. Zipp0 -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

I once quit a job like this - Went up to my supervisor: "Hey.... who would I tell if I was going to quit." Him: "Well, me, I guess." Me: " Oh, OK. I quit." I immediately walked out, never to return. Another job, many years ago, I simply went to lunch and never returned. I never said a word to anyone that I was quitting. For all they knew, I was hit by a bus on my lunch break. But, I think they had a feeling I wan't happy. Zipp0 -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

If your argument is that smoking increases health care costs for everyone, then you have to argue that ALL unhealthy activity should be banned. How about fast food? What about alcohol? healthy? Nope. Increase health care costs? Most likely. So unless you are willing to ban ALL unhealthy activity, stop singling out smokers. Heck, while we're at it, let's just require everyone to run 5 miles a day. Also, several studies have indicated that smoking LOWERS overall health care costs. Long term care for elderly, sickly people is very expensive, and smokers die younger, requiring lower care costs overall. I won't smoke near non-smokers, children or in public buildings. I in no way harm the health of any non-smoker. I hope to quit soon, but it is very difficult. So, for now, get of my friggin back! Zipp0 -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Can you get a paintball gun? Z -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

I don't give two shits what people do. If they want to do hard drugs - go for it. I am all for freedom and personal choice. Skydiving, like smoking, has the potential to kill. And someone who smokes for 2 years and skydives for 2 years is at a much greater risk from skydiving. Zipp0 -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Yes, it sure does. Poverty does not allow for a very healthy lifestyle. As far as genetics goes, you'd have to show me data on that one. And to think that the poor in the USA get the same care as the wealthy in the USA is Juuuuust a bit insane. Zipp0 -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Yeah - it's kind of like that crazy, irresponsible "it won't be me" attitude that skydivers display. Zipp0 -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

This is an easy one for us ugly, stupid people. Zipp0 -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Smokers are addicts. I know - I am one. Most of us are not thoughtless slobs who don't care about ourselves. Aside from the smoking I eat well and exercise, it's just damn hard to quit. I never smoke around non-smokers and never throw my butts in the street, or in the grass. At the least I break off the filter and put it in my pocket, to dispose of later. And if you want to address poisonous fumes that can casue cancer, how about looking at the 150 million autos driving around spewing billions of cubic feet of cancer causing pollutants every day. And guess what - those fumes are nearly impossible to avoid - unless you live in the sticks. So please, don't group all smokers together as slobs. There are plenty of non-smoking slobs who litter and act inconsiderate in other ways. And someone driving like an idiot(for instance) is going to kill you a lot faster than someone smoking nearby. Zipp0 -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Smoking reduces the overall cost of health care. Smokers die young, and require much less long term care than non-smokers. Zipp0 -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Not a plan, but you are on to something. The answer is poverty. The poor cannot afford the same level of health care as the middle and upper classes. Z -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

But if saw that there were times when the outside thermometer stayed the same, and the temp rose anyway, you would conclude that maybe you were on to something. Z -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Us evil people have many parts of the bible that we like. For instance (no mercy!): If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death. Leviticus 20:10 Or another favorite(incest!): 30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. 31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is no man around here to lie with us, as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Let's get our father to drink wine and then lie with him and preserve our family line through our father." 33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and lay with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up. 34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, "Last night I lay with my father. Let's get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and lie with him so we can preserve our family line through our father." 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went and lay with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up. 36 So both of Lot's daughters became pregnant by their father. 37 The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab [1] ; he is the father of the Moabites of today. 38 The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi [2] ; he is the father of the Ammonites of today. Genesis 19:30-38 Wang cut off? Sorry about your luck!: 1 He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord. 2 A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord. Deuteronomy 21:1 Stone the whore!!!: 13 If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her, 14 And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: 15 Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: 16 And the damsel's father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her; 17 And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. 18 And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him; 19 And they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days. 20 But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: 21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you. Deuteronomy 22:13-21 The bible is the word of man, and their ideas/misperceptions of what god would tell them. Z -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

So.... I guess us Satanist/Libertine types should just stay out of this? Z -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

I AGREE 100%, in theory.

You people up there should be using sails on your cars instead of gasoline. Z -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

The fiasco is not when the superfund was created, but that it was allowed to dry up. The basis was that "the polluters pay" for the cleanup of toxic sites. Well, now tha the 'polluter pays tax' expired, guess what : the corporations pollute, and Joe 6 pack taxpayer gets to foot the clean-up bill. Sweet Z -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Well, those are the facts as recorded by the US Department of Energy. How can you be persuaded if you cannot even accept it when stone cold facts are presented? And where is here? Z -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

So, basically you are saying 'Fuck the environment?' Or did I miss something? Z Where did you get that? Never heard of over kill? There is no reason not to drill in ANWAR. No reason not to drill off the coasts. No reason not to build more refineries other that the enviro whackos don't want anyone too. The US is the cleanest industrialized country in the world. We do it better than anyone else. Want to keep the world clean? Then let's keep it at home. Do you know where the US get most of its oil? Well, that answered it for me. Where are your facts on the clean US industrials? Ever heard of the superfund and the associated fiasco? Show me some numbers that prove how clean the US oil industry is. Z -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty I LOVE your sig, by the way. Allow me to quote Patrick Henry: It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace-- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! Now, imagine for a moment that instead of that famous last line, he instead had said "I know not what course others may take; but as for me, Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty!" Our country might not exist this day, had that attitude prevailed. And, if that attitude takes hold, it will cease to exist as we know it. Z -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

I said it was a start. Closed refineries: http://www.mywesttexas.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=16418322&BRD=2288&PAG=461&dept_id=474107&rfi=6 Big Alaska profits: http://www.sitnews.us/0406news/042406/042406_shns_alaska_oil.html z -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Here's a start: http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_expc_a_EP00_EEX_mbbl_m.htm -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

So, basically you are saying 'Fuck the environment?' Or did I miss something? Z -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

CONGRATULATIONS - You finally said something with some truth to it! What we need to do is break the bond between speculation and price. I mean, supply and demand needs to based on current realities, not fairy tales. I don't know how to do this, or if it can be done, but then again, I'm not a big-wig government official. What is the answer? Approach alternative energy with the same will we applied toward going to the moon a few decades back. If we did that, we could get some options. Can't you conservatives get behind breaking our oil dependence? Or do you prefer being beholden to those who would just as soon see us all dead? Z -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Very astute of you. And to what do you attribute that disparity? Go ahead and guess, and I'll tell you if you are correct.... Z -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.