RiggerLee

Lower lateral band? I thought it was to the center band and the apex. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Direct bag deployments from an airplane are a totaly diffrent animal then a free fall deployment. From a plane you fall verticaly downwards across the airstream, some back angle depending on speed. The lines on a dirrect bag are streatched out across the airstream. If you just dirrect bag the canopy it dumps out of the bag basically perpendicular to the wind relative to you. It will invert all the time. You might get lucky on ocasion and get a clean opening, any thing is posable. That's why you have to have a strong velcro assist or tie at the apex. Once the bag opens you have another 17 ft of canopy that you have to streatch out tight. It should look like a big ark between you and the plane. Once it streaches out tight and the assist breaks the whole thing swings back in line with the wind and begens to open. With the canopy fully extended like that staging is pretty good and reliability is pretty high. You are still sideways to the airstream and you can still get partial inversions and burns. After they added the net malfunctions just about went to 0. It totaly cured the iinversion problem. It stops the skirt from blowing through the lines. It's huge. Lots of bulk. Free fall is all about getting to line streach with the canopy extended and the skirt even hence the diaper. The Phantom thing was a bit before my time. only ever saw one canopy that still needed the mods. I learned about it from Stanford and Greg Gerrondale of OK. Greg seemed to be in on the push for the mods and I'd reffrence you to him for the detales. There are other old timers here that might also have more dirrect knowlage of the incedents that led to the mods. I heard about the airshow from a guy in the FAA. Short version of the story. Guy took the wings off a plane. Think lawn dart with the engion puhing it. He was fast. He got out and dumped but the thing blew up. Just blew to shit. PC seperated from the bridal above the knot. The way the canopy failed was interesting. Ashudo diaper. Remember all the weight of the diaper and lines hangs on one radial tape. That tape goes to a line at the apex. That line goes over the top to the opposit radial tape and seam. The bridal acts like a pully and the weight of the diaper pulled the top seam/radial tape, which is the center one of the packjob out of the center of the diaper. Try it some time when your unpackng one. Have a guy hold the diaper take a good grip on that center seam and give it a good pull. It caught air and inflated probably inverted and beguin to pull out the gore on ether side. It also tore the line off the canopy. Remember the early Phantoms only had that little peace of type 3 tape zigzaged ontop of the lower lateral band. The line broke that and pealed off. then the next two did the same. Al the way around the canopy till it got to the last line and that one broke at the finger trap at the link. Guy had a bad fucking day. Let me repeat he was going fast. Bland was all hot to do an investigtion but the FAA didn't want to get involved. He had a radar track with a ground speed almost to impact and he had an angle of impact from the hole the plane made so he figured he could caculate the air speed. It was fast but he figured that with the pilots weight that it was within the shock loading that the canopy had been tested to. He felt that it through doubt on the testing program of the canopy and he wanted to make them retest it in front of him. Not gona happen. The FAA was not going to pay him to go hang out and fuck with these poor guys when it was obveously an extream senario. Nothing ever came of it. But it shows the importance of good V tapes or equivalent. It also shows the importance of acounting for the inertia of the lines and diaper. I've had failures of radial seam tapes on high speed deployments. That's why I favore a heavier tape on that seam and a loop to transfer the load to that tape. Think quarter bag. Or at least a finger traped loop in the apex line to keep it from shifting. This is all moot. If you're still repcking old Phantoms I suggest you read he statement in the latest manual. It's up to you but on your head be it. I wouldn't want to explane my self in court. Tell your pilot that national has sold him out and he should buy a new strong because they wont let you pack his old PEP any more. And all the aero stars that are still airworthy have the new attachment points so that's nolonger relevent. And besides there's nothing wrong with it just don't try to deploy it at 300 miles an hour. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Diapers are a huge improvement in the stageing of the opening. There are some other factors that seem to play into the malfunction rate. The "shorter" a canopy is the easier it seems to be for it to become partialy or even fully inverted. The old tri conicals as an example were known to fully invert. The burns can be more then just a nucence. The more shape it has the more of a problem it can be. A nice tall conical on the other hand is harder to turn inside out. The apex is just too high up there to be pulled all the way through before it really starts to fill. The phantoms were notorious for blowing up. Remember the tighter diaper and kevlar band upgrade? They didn't do that just for fun. Did you hear about the one that blew up at the airshow? And that one had all the mods. In fairness he was going fast. People seem to froget about all these things. How many Super Ravens broak lines? How many M-series pulled attachment points? How many Tempos broake lines? And yet people incest on free flying with the tinest rig and reserve they can find. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

I think this is a fundomenally flawed idea. I learned in exactly the oposit manner. I worked in a loft sewing and was eventually trained as a rigger. Over the course of time I had the opertunity to see all kinds of things. Drag chutes for lear jets, ejection seats, hang glider reserves, not to mention just about every PEP and old sport rig on the market. I think I receaved a very good education as a rigger in a reletively short time. That being a couple of years. And in fact found that I was continuing to learn after I left there. Even with all I was exposed to there at one of the bussiest lofts in the state I've continued to run in to new supprises over the years. The concept of trying to compress all of that into a two week course seems like a poor substitute for the training I was lucky enough to receave. That couldn't have happened if I was just over in a corner of the shop playing with toy rigs. I don't think any one could have a collection large enough or varried enough to match what I was exposed to there. I don't think twenty pack jobs is enough to qualify some one to even be a senior rigger. Not allowing some one to work under suppervision makes the possibility of that kind of appenticeship imposable. at that point your down to a two week rubber stamp course and lets face it that doesn't make you a real rigger. I've known people that have done it and eventually gone on to become good riggers but I still think that it is an inharently infearier way to learn. In short this is some thing that is fucked up that we should fight to change. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Don't froget that it went to a vertical two pin with the pins on the back pad like a racer and the loops on the top flap. Very clean but poor lanch. then to a vertical two pin on the out side ala swift. I think there may be one more step in who was licened to manufacer them. can't remember... company starting with an A? And lets not forget that the number one "high speed freefly rig" is TSOed to only 3000 lb shock load under the LOW speed catigory, TSO-C23B LOW SPEED PARACHUTE LIMITED TO AIRPLANES UNDER 150 MPH. Que the laugh track. always get a kick out of that. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

It's hard to imagion how you could miss the brake line, slider all the way down at the base and then picked it up and ran the slider up all the way and started to propack it... hard to imagion but you wouldn't beleve some of the things I've seen over the years. Acctually there are some ways that you can get a really lose pack job like that. Did he have both knots tied in the loop. I've seen them slip when people only tie one overhand knot. If you're stuffing a wrinkled canopy instead of folding a clean one then you can get a substancal amount of settelling in the pack job. I'm talking on the order of an inch. Also changes in humidity. Classic case would be an Eloy jumper gets his rig packed and then flies to FL. it's gona get lose. It's just a question of by how much. If you've got a messy ie wrinkally packjob then it will settle a lot more. Even if the guy has a really good AC unit and keeps his house really dry there will be a noticable settle. Much greater if it's a stuffed packjob. There are acually maximum and minimums for the humidity that you pack a reserve in. I wish I could have disected it my self but I'll bet it was an old school messy/stuffed packjob. I'll bet he packs it all the way through at one time. I'll bet he closes it with his hands and does not knee/walk/beat the pack job as he goes to pree age/compress it. I'll bet it was a little lose by todays standards but not scary when he was done. I'll bet he gave it back or dropped it off and then it settled further. Add a little summer humidity and wala. On the other hand. If your pack job is ironed neat. Not one fucking wrinkle. It takes a few cycles to train a canopy but I love following my self. There really isn't any where for it to go. It's about as flat as it's going to get already. If you take a day or even two closing the rig letting it settle you can close it a lot tighter. You should have to walk/knee/beat before the PC and after to pin it. You should have to let it rest a bit and settle. Go back and rock the PC and kneal on it before you can close the next flap. I like to put it in the corner of the door frame on the floor. I stand with my back against the oposit side of the door frame With my back braced holding the frame behind my back with my hands. It lets me put more then twice my weight on the rig as I walk on top of the PC compressing/pre ageing the packjob before I can close the last few flaps. I'll do it again after the sideflaps. In short I don't get complants about lose loops. I can still grab the cable with my fingers and slide the pin back and forth. That's he test I use for pull force but I've basically aged and settled the pack job before and durring closeing alowing me to use a shorter loop then most riggers could close it with. He's not doing that. In the tradisional sence of the word he's probably a perfetly good rigger. He's just a little out of touch. I'll bet tose rigs would open fine if you pulled the ripcord. The issue with the cypres cutter is a little diffrent mater. I again attribute it to being out of touch. I don't want to see a cutter fail any more then you do but it is supposed to be a backup. This has been a link in fatalities but not the sole cause. If you feel so dependent on it that the thought of it failing causes you this much fear maybe you should reevaluate the fact that you are jumping out of an airplane. And if you want to start a thread about really bad rigging stories I'm game but they'll make this guy look like a shineing star and turn your hair white to boot. If you want to feel good about your gear do not hang out in the loft and lissen to a bunch of riggers bullshit. Do you reallize that you are seriously talking about going to the FAA and trying to get this guys ticket yanked because his loops are a bit lose? Think about it. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Generaly speaking it's what container it's for. Not just what size but what specific container it's for. Generaly the bag shapes the canopy to fit the container. Wide, thin, thick, long... to some degree they are interchangeable on mains at least but the rig can get ugly if it's shaped wrong. Can't have that! So then it becomes a question of what volume is your tray? Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

I thought we were talking about the general level of his packing. That was a hands down fuck up. That guy was in for an interesting opening. That's a phone call and an emailed picure or polleroid, to him I mean not the FAA. I don't know a rigger that wouldn't be embarest at that. Never seen it take more then that. On the other hand the only riggers that I know that I haven't cought in a misstake are the ones that haven't been doing it for very long. Riggers are people. They make errors like any one else. We try to be carefull in every way we can knowing what's at stake but we are all just people. Judge not lest you be judged. It goes a lot better to show some one there mistake then to try to be high and mighty dispenceing judgement from above. Some day I may open your pack job and I find all kinds of errors. In the end it's the same thing. We polece our selves. That's what maintaines the standards in our industry not the fucking FAA. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Going and running to the FAA is NOT the way to deal with this. First off you don't really have that good of a case, second they don't want to hear it, but most importantly it's just not right. Master rigger... let me guess he's been around for a long time. Riggs and rigging have changed a lot over the years. If you don't evolve you get left behind. Today you have to fold not just stuff. Old guy, learned on Vector 1's, can't really get down on his knees and really work it any more, and never learned to make propper use of tork/closeing tools? Standards have changed. In the 80's that wasn't concedered that bad. Once I would have said that it was just poor quality work. Now with cutters it's more of an issue. I'd send it back to him with a loop half that length and a note in the flap to have fun disecting it and a dare to reclose it with the same length loop. Let him take it apart. If he accepts the chalange then soon his rigs will get a lot tighter. That's what really keeps the standards in our industry. Riggers learning from each other and the fear of pear ridicule. Hell if he was near me I'd tell him to bring over a few rigs. By the end of the day I'd have him up to speed. By the way. The worst example of this that I ever saw was an FAA inspector. His wifes rig made yours look a tight clean. Then again it was his wifes rig... Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Yes we're makeing fun of you but it is a vallid question. There are often problems in a canopy that you will not discover till your first jump on it. The bad news s that there are things that can not be found on the ground in an inspection. Some canoies were famous for it. Ravens and Tempos are good examples. They both came in two versions R's and L's depending on which turn was built into the canopy. Some times you would get a defective one that was nutral. Some times the turns would be severe. Bad enough to make flying and landing it a chalange. Manufactering has gotten better but the first jump on any canopy has the potental to be... interesting. Got a problem with that? Take up golf. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Did you know that there was once an eight cell canopy? Chaffen built them. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

No. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

There's more to it then size. I don't know exactly what you're jumping but there are a lot of canopies out there that are more eficent designs then most student rigs. You might get even better landings, glide, even min sink rate by going to a smaller but cleaner design. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Let me put this into perspective for you. Rigging: Watch us some time. Depending on the rigger and the rig you'll see him spend up to two houres packing it. Every layer of fabric will lay neatly in it's place. Every fold will be perfect. It will look like it's been ironed. There will not be one wrinkle. The pack job will be emaculate and perfect in every way. I probable shouldn't tell you this but none of that has a fucking thing to do with the opening or reliability of the parachute. It's all about makeing it fit in the damn bag and how the rig looks when it's closed. That is actualy what we are judged on by our customers and even by other riggers. Packing: It's all about the $$$. It's about stuffing nylon in bags as fast as you can. It's about five min closeures. It's about makeing the bank as fast as you can, up to $1,000 a day. It's about getting ready for those long winter months when you may not see a penny for three months at a time. It's about rent, and car payments and beer money. Functions? The only thought payed to cutaways is that it might cost you a customer for the day or force you to hussle on his other rig if one of them is down. A certin rate of malfunction is expected and accepted. The increase in volume of business more the makes up for the ocasional cutaway and gear damage... that's their problem. You have to make bank, they have to take their chances. Sorry to be blunt but that's the brutal honest truth. There's nothing wrong with paying a packer just remember what you're paying for. No one will ever take care of your gear like you will. It's your choice to abdecate that responceability that's up to you. And if any one tells you diffrent from this they're just blowing smoke up your ass. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Vibe asked us to build them belly bands for their rigs when they went to nationals a few years ago. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Just for fun why don't you do a search for a presure transduicer that is certified for emergency systems. Look for one that is specaly rated for emergancy parachute systems. We'll sit here and wait. Check the price for us while you're at it. It is funny as shit thoue. I wonder if some day a lawer will get a hold of that and hang them up by there balls. Oh, wait, that's right their in germany. good for them. Cue the foley artest with the great big rasberry sound dirrected at the law ferms. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

The diffrence in tightness between the sitting and standing position does not have to be so extreame. It's a product of the geometry of the hip junction. If the pivit point is in line with the ball and socket of the hip their shouldn't be a big change in the tightness of the rig. This center of rotation is both lower and farther back then you think. The problem is if you build a harness like that it's not very comfertable. It implies a very short lateral at the side of the rig and the junction of the lateral and hip very low on the hip. The main lift web tends to pull back against the arms cutting off blood flow and you wind up hanging from a point on your side with the leg strap cutting into your groin, think old strong tandom harness. Now in truth it doesn't have to be that bad. eliminate even one of those factors and most of the problem goes away. Example, A racer with a latteral continues into the legstrap. Just about the most exstream example of anti stager short of actualy moving the latteral bellow the legstrap. Absolutly no lift. I remember a rig he built for Amy who insisted on stager. He built it with a band across her lower back from legstrap to leg strap and the lateral from the containor well above it. No falling out of that rig. Or look at any older rig with really short latterals. Or any rig with a low point or rotation for the hip as lonng as the MLW is not too far forward. Javalin has gotten away with building a lot of rigs with an amazing amount of stagger by keeping there ring low and their latterals modderate. The more you exagerate any of these qualities: stagger, long latterals, and high points of rotation the easier it will be to roll out the back of your rig. All three of them togather... If you want this to make sence think of the most extream example of all three of these togather. Think of a line right down the spine. Think of another where the femor is. Remember that the junction, the center of rotation is actually fairly far back. Now think of the mlw running down the front of the body, in fact think of him being a big thick so you really exagerate how far forwards the mlw is from the point of rotation. Now put the legstrap junction almost on the front of the leg, even a bit low down with the lift web a bit too long. Now imagion the rig high on the back with a lot of stagger and the latteral running all the way around the side to almost the front of the body to a point of rotation in the mlw. when you stand you pull the mlw tight across your belly all the way up to the yoke across the back of your neck, like a bib. The only thing holding the base of the rig against your back is the latteral and all it has to pull on is the mlw held tight by you standing up. Now sit down. Every thing rotates from the hip way behind the mlw. Imagion the rotation of the leg feeding webbing into the main lift web from the front of the leg on a lever well in front of the hip and the center of rotation. The mlw on the front of your body becomes totaly lose. Now that there is nothing to pull the mlw tight there is nothing to keep the pack from pulling the latteral and bending the slack mlw at that junction and alowing the rig to lift off your back. Long stagger, long lat, front side mlw, high point of rotation forwards and above the hip, add it all up and fall right out the back. It's hard to exsplane this typeing here but the more forwards the mlw is the more the mlw will losen and ride up when you lift your legs. Just that simple. Now as to what happens then depends on the stagger and flexability of the mlw above hip. If you had less stagger or some thing else pulling forward on the latteral ie a waist belt then the pack wont be able to rotate back so much. It will still lift vertically. Now on the other hand the farther forward the main lift web is the more you settle into a "chair" after opening. No one likes the yoke pulling backwards on their shoulders cutting into thier arms. and you must have the tineyest little rig you can jump as short as they can make it regardless of how thick it is setting as high on your back as you can reach, or even higher I've seen totals because people couldn't reach their rig. But they did look good. I'll give them that. And you must have stagger, otherwise it's just not FREEFLY. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Not a thing in the world wrong with it, but lets be honest it's cheeper. Thats why their going to it. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

I remember when Booth caught that guy rebuilding his tandoms and was all kinds of pissed saying that he couldn't do that. But the thing is there are all kinds of presedents for it. By the time the Vin Fizz, first plane to fly coast to coast, landed in CA there were only half a dozen parts on it left over from the original plane. It had been replaced bit by bit. An even better example is today when some one crashes a plane or sinks it in a lake. They will go out with a snorkal, mask and tin snips. They cut out the little plate on the tail and repare the plane around it. I froget the exact rules governing how they do it. tecnicaly the don't repare it all at once. It's done in several stages but in the end it's an airplane once again. And if you weren't permited to do this then frankly GA in this country would be dead. My point is there are presedants. Now haveing said all that I'm actualy against it. And all though I never bothered to get my master I'm actually one of the relatively few people who could do it. If it had been me I honestly don't think Booth could have spotted it. The thing is it's not simple about being able to do the repare. The TSO is more then just a lable. It's a whole program of quality control, materials tracking, and construction. There's actualy a pretty good stack of paper work assocated with each rig through whitch every peace of fabric, webbing, hardware, grommets, pins, cable... All the way down to the thread can be tracked back to the sorce and even there tracked to it's very lot. And even then, even if you could and would do all that, at the factory they are working from a construction manual. And the product they produice has been checked and inspected to match the line drawing submited to the FAA during testing. And furthermore they are reguarly reinspected by the FAA to conferm that there production has not changed and still matches the line drawing and is in compliance with their approved construction manual. So in that sence I think I can actually make a good argument that major repares at least those requirering the replacement of matereals should not be done in the field. Now that's just totaly fucking impractical. But at some point I think we need to address this kind of question. I don't think it's pratical to write it into the FAR's. A publication like Sandies book approved by the FAA as standard practices is the obveous solution. As to his book, well it is his book, who's oppionions do you expect to find in it? It's his standards. Maybe a rigging commity from PIA should jointly write the next one. Good luck with that. In the mean time, he did it. He sat down and did some thing that was twenty years over due. I think it could have been done better but you see how I write. Now you're stuck with it. I think it's fair to say that it's now the offical standard in the industrey. so you'd better get bussy and learn how to use a desk top pubblisher. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

The police might not be the ones to contact. As I recall any tampering with a certified aircraft must be reported to the FBI. That law was in place even before 9/11. I'm not sure this comes under the same perview but it is a certified tso'd peace of equipment. It's certified through the MIDO just like the engion on your airplane. Viewed in that light it's not an option. If they decide that it falls under the same catigory then you could get in real trouble for not reporting it. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

You and the canopy are decelerating at several times the force of gravity. The more mass the slider has the higher the force trying to push the slider down the line to over cone the air pushing up. They put weights on the slider to try and make it open faster. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

I don't recall the name of the canopy. It was south african, chute shop or Pisa. It actually had lead weights swen into the slider to make it come down faster. They were small, four little rectanguler weights, a couple of ounces each. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Can be an issue. Leg straps tend to be a bit loser. You just can't get the tightness you get from the BOC when it's streatched across the bottom of the packed container. It makes the sizeing of the pocket and pilot chute more critical. It might argue in favor of a larger f-111 pilot chute that might be less prone to finding it's way out of the pocket. I remember when legstraps were the norm. I saw enough premies that I was not at all sad to see them go away. BOC's are just flat a supier design on several levels. I'm going to throw out a suggestion. It has a lot of cons to it but you might want to concider it. Left handed BOC. You have to retrain your self from scratch, can't loan your rig, can't borrow some ones rig. But you might want to think about it. I've seen and sewn several over the years for people with shoulder or elbow problems. I always give them the same lecture when ever they ask me to build one. I'm not a proponent of nonstandard gear but if this is really a long term condition for you you might think about it. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Not in the least bit uncommen. i think some of the plates are softer then others. I've seen them bent by riggers that I know didn't use tork bars, they just had strong hands. You can kind of bend it back but it tends to rebend rather easly. Where it's at you could replace it but it would be a pain. If you flaten the plate add a large washer to the loop when you pack it. You can get a really big fender washer from a good hardware store. Just put it under the plate as a duballer and run the cypres loop and washer through both. You can get them like 2.5 in in diamiter. It will keep the plate from tocoing. also does wonders for Dollfins. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

It's nice that the reserve cover flap came open. I wonder if that would have been the case on a more agressive flap like a vector or a marage? You would hope that at least the bungy would break but streamering from a break line after a cutaway...? Every time I say some thing silly like, "I don't see how it can hurt you..." some one finds a new way to kill them selves. Also once I refused to put one on some guys rig. It was an old Tallon 2 or something like that that didn't have an "opening cover flap". Basically he wanted me to pack it under the top flap and I told him he couldn't do that. He was a free flier and had to look cool like all his friends. I think he fished it through him self because I seem to recall seeing him later with his slider behind his neck. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com