RiggerLee

Out standing! Did you chop it or land it? How were it's dynamics? It's pitching? What stability checks are you doing? How's the front riser tension? Any points of... mushiness on the front riser stroke? What kind of rig are you jumping it in? The easiest way to deal with this is to put it in a tersh on a set of mini risers on larg ring harness. With the cutaways on the risers. You can make a container compleatly seperat from the harness so no alteration to the tso'd container. That's how I've always done it. Poor mans tersh rig. Come on, you got to spill some details. We demand more pictures. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

I seem to recall an acedent around Dallas. A student pilot and his instructor had a bird strike on the leading edge of the wing. 150, 172 something like that. Big dent in the wing. They took the plane back to the airport and as they slowed down on final that wing stalled and they spun in. I grant you this was a smaller plane but wing damage is not triveal. I had a strike. Good size hawk. It was at night and it hit me right at the base of the stut so not that far off center. Big bang and the whole plane kicked. It was a 150 but still this was a lot of force and it's not like I was going fast, it was a 150. If it had hit me some place... thinner things might be diffrent. I did feel bad about the bird, but what can I say, should have had his nav lights on. I seem to recall doc talking about bird strikes back when he had the DC-3. I'm trying to remember the exact context. I think he was replaceing the lens/glass over the landing lights on the DC-3, it's in the leading edge of the wing. I think it had a crack or some thing. I recall him saying some thing about the danger of breaking that lens, for example on a bird strike, and it's a heavy peace of glass. As I recall he said that the plane would not fly, or would be very difficule to fly with that lens broken. And thats a big conservitive airplane. But that big hole in the leading edge of the wing could cause the loss of the aircraft. Just saying, this isn't necsesaraly in the triveal catigory. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Shortest time was about an hour and 15 min from the time I signed the card till he pulled the handle. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Honestly at some point you're going to have to learn about real sewing machines. You can get by for now building little kites on your home machine, honestly that's what you should probably be doing right now any way. But eventually yopu're going to need a real machine or a couple. First off where ever you went to buy your home machine don't go there. I don't know what it's like in the uk but here in the us there is like two diffrent worlds. One has the little old ladies that build quilts and clothes to embaris there grand children. And then there is the real world of industreal sewers that use real machines, real fabric and real thread. The two groups do not over lap. At all. If you've been going to a little craft shop, don't go back there, don't talk to them, don't lissen to any thing they say. Pull out the phone book and find a shop that deals with industrial sewing machines. Develop a relation ship with them. You'll know the place when you see it. It will be a wearhouse in an older part of town, there will be no show room. It will just be big shelves with old heads and stacks of tables in the corners and one old guy that knows way way more about what you need then you do. The good news is that what you're looking for is for the most part cheap. Light weight garmit machines are every where and not in great demand. Make sure you get a 110 moter with a good clutch. Start out with just a straight stitch with a reverse, say a consew 230. A needle feed would be nice but you could get by with a drop feed. Next you need a double neadle probable a 1/4 inch gague. It would be nice if it was a reverse. With a binder you dont need that but for this it would be good. Puller. Pullers don't grow on trees. What you need is one like a singer 112-w-116 A bottom puller with a top side roller so you can have a whole pile of shit underneath your arm. You may have to look around to find something like this at a decent price. You need to start thinking about your seam construction and what you will need in terms of folders, tape feet, etc. You're probable going top want to get the folders and plates so that you can swap them out on that one double needle. Odds are they will all be custom. Rarely have I found ane thing off the shelf. You get what you pay for. Expect to send in samples of fabric, seames, tapes, etc. Both sewn and unsewn. figure on several hundred dollars per folder so have this well thought out and don't forget about any tapes that will have to run through the folder. They will need to leave room for them. These are fairly high percision hand made devices with more then a little magic in them. Do not trust any one under 60 years old to build your folder for you. It's a lost art. Old mill fabric? Look you're going to need 0-3 fabric, eventually you're going to want to use zp. I don't know what you've got but you're not goint to learn much other then how to sew with out tight fabric. You're going to have to learn about supliers. Don't hold your breath on buying any thing, and I mean any thing locally. Do not go bach to the local shop. If it doesn't come on a roll you don't want it. Air foil. Clark Y? Yah it's been around but it's probably not what your looking for. This aint alumanum. I don't think I'd put a whole lot of brain power into the air foil but I'll toss out some thoughts, keep in mind they are worth exactly as much as your paying for them. First off you're bottom seam is probable going to be flat. It's a compromise on ease of construction. Second you're probable going to want a good bit of camber. third I'd wand the camber and thickness pritty far to the front of the canopy. I think you're looking for a pritty strong moment. I think that would help to keep the front of the canopy from unloading. Beyond that, it's a big fucking sack that only has a passing resimbalance to the rib so don't go over board. panels. If they're just rectangles then the thing looks like a flat wing. Think about what happens when you bend it. Think about the angle of attack across the wing and how it will bend. The outer ribs will wind up leaned inwards at the ends. Think about the angle of the lines as it opens like a fan. The top skin has to be wider then the bottom skin. No rectangles. Now I'm going to talk a little more out of my ass here. I don't have derrect knowlage of how the diffrent manufactorers make there decisions but I'll toss out some ideas. Lets say you tuuk a line along the glide angle of your canopy. So that is your free stream line. through the end of your riser. Then you have the canopy, center cell loaded rib above that. Then lets say you rotated that airfoil around that line so that you have a positive angle of attack all the way across the canopy reletive to the glide angle/free stream line. So think of it as a surface of rotation. In essence the zero lift line of the canopy would form a cone around the free stream line passing through the riser with a constant angle of attack. The surface is of course more complicated but not by much. Basically intergrate along the surface, just add up the distances along the curve, and at each point look at the distance perpendicular to that line of rotation. That based on the angle for each rib gives you the width of the panel at that point. Very easy for a rectangular canopy. If you get fancier, eliptical, where you basically change the airfoil at each rib you have to get a bit more sneaky. You can form the panel shape by basicly doing an intergration through the law of cosigns to unwrap the panel off of the canopy into a flat plane. In a sence it's basicly a sort of cone. as long as you don't have any sections of... negative gausen curvature it's not a problem. But that's for another day. Set your self up a spread sheet and think about panel shapes. Keep in mind that what I've described here is very... basic. You can actually do a lot between the line trim and panel shape to control the angle of attack across the canopy. This is some of the secret stuff that I can only guess at. And keep in mind that even with this it's still going to be a bit weird when it inflates. Keep in mind that the tail being thiner will "swell" more then the thick part of the canopy. So it will tend to bow the canopy backwards slightly. What I've described is not really adiquite knowlage to build a canopy I'm just giving you an example of how you might start to generate a design or at least where I might start. Take it for what it's worth. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Not sure exactly what you're aiming at here. I will preffes all my comments by saying that unless you're looking for something very specal, a specal aplication there is absolutely no advantage in trying to build your own canopy from scratch. And from what little I see you don't seem to have a good grasp of the back ground nessasary to do it. Not ragging on you just saying. Now haveing said all of that. I thinkl it's really cool that your strikeing out on a project like this. Way to go. Regardless of all else you will learn a great deal even if your canopy never gets off of your computer. Small minded people here will give you a lot of shit so just ignor them. I will answer your questions to the best of my abillity and help you with what little I know. First off could you fill us in on your back ground, skill set, and resorces specificly equipment. second. It sounds very much like you're starting from scratch. Before you try to reinvent the wheel you might start by examining past designs and looking at some of the infomation out there. Bad news is that most of the knowlage is locked away in peoples skulls or in companies but I seemk to recall a few papers and presentations from pia etc. I don't have them in front of me. Hell why don't you take apart an old canopy and try to copy it. I'll start tossing out some thoughts. Just bits of info that you may or may not be aware of. If your starting from scratch and you've never done this before start small. How bout you build a kite. say 50 sq ft. It would give you a chance to work out how to main seam, your construction, play with your trim, etc. Start by kiteing the damn thing. Use that to measure your glide angle, lift, give you an idea of how these things change with your break input. Give you some notion of your... I'll call it pitch stiffness. A tendence to stay at one angle of attack and not for instance over fly and role it's nose under. A jumpable model on your first try is probable a bridge too far. Some other thoughts. It looks like your panels are rectangular. No panels are not rectangles. In fact a good bit of the secret magic is in the panel shape. At the very least think of it as a shape of rotation. I degress further on this but I'm short of time. where did you get your fabric? Canipy fabric is almost like baseball bat wood. You can't make it out of just any thing. The cloth that you cut it from has to be straight. Take a marker and draw a line across the fabric following one of the ripstop lines. Then lay one long ruler paralel to the warp of the fabric. and use a big frameing square to lay another ruler 90 deg to it. You'll probable find that the shit is crooked. It can bow, it can be at an angle, it can be in an S. Some time you can cutr from the center of the roll. Another trick is to flip the panels so that they form a shevron when you sew them togather. What machines do you have? Any pullers? Look I could go on and on but I have to go ship some thing. I think this is cool by the way. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

I'm trying to recall but looking back I think I've been pressent for at least four fatalities that were the dirrect result of deceleration injuries. I've seen or have knowlage of other nonfatel injuries includeing one guy that would up a parapligic and another that wound up with a torn liver. I'm not sure if any one has ever kept track of these especally the non fatel ones but it would be interesting. There's some pretty good data outr there on opening shock now. There's been a lot of work with data recorders and load cells. Ask Gary Peek. He was kind of leading the charge on that at one point. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Well generally the reserve is freebaged so the drag of the reserve pilot chute is irrelevent. The canopy is fully clean and swoops beautifully. In fact I know some crw guys that have added dive loops to there reserve risers. But other then that you're pritty much spot on. You have done a fine job of summerizing the the adverage rig of the adverage exspereanced jumper. If I was to guess the adverage jumper would be better off if he went up one canopy size on both main and reserve. And he probable needs to go up two sizes on his container. And honestly neather the weight nor the size would bother then in the least. There really is no need for the container to end mid way up your back. Don't get me started on how many totals I've seen because they couldn't reach high enough on there back to pull the pilot chute. They thought they looked so cool walking to the plane but I was laughing my ass off when they came back in with their reserve in their arms on the first jump. Point is a larger container would actually be more comfertable then a little hard brick high on your back. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Actually there's a lot of people that play there part in this problem. My hand is raised among them. Manufactorer that builds and sizes rigs too tight or builds the patern set based on esthetics rather then functionality. The instructor/coach that convences the student that they cant posably fly unless they get such and such a size rig. "Here, try mine on." The other instructor/coach that convinces them that they must have at least a XXX size canopy to be safe. The dealer that sells the system, combination of main, reserve, and container at the ragged edge of compatability or beyond in order to make the sell. The rigger that gets handed this nightmare and has to make it fit. I'm in this catigory. Yep, over the years I've learned to pack some really tight rigs, and I've gotten good at it. I pitty the fool that has to follow me on some of these things. And in the end what do you have? A brick that is hands down too tight. It looks like shit especicaly if an "adverage" rigger gets a hold of it. It winds up with permanant wrinkles, and fucked up stiffeners, and damaged riser covers, and risers comeing out, and flaps not staying closed, and a whole world of other lements that range from estetic to comfert to functional. Right up there to real no shit problems like what you're seeing in your vid. It's the big, "We all agree not to talk about it secret" that nobody wants to bring up because it pisses every body off. Try telling some skygod that he can't jump his $5000 rig. Try telling him you wont repack it. Try telling him he has to buy a larger reserve, larger main, way larger container to hold all of them. All of this in spite of the fact that he would actually be happier with all of the above. This is actually food for about half a dozen threads not one. And guess what there's a couple of dozen threads on it allready. But we're probbable going to have to bounce a few people before any thing changes. Some nice high profile ones. Some big names. On vid no less so it can be spread all over you tube before any thing fundomentally changes. The sad thing is that all of the problems are fixable. There are designs out there right now that address all of this. There is give and take in all design decisions and some of these ideas have come in and out of fashion over the years, like hesitator loops, that can address some of these issues. But a lot of the fundomental problems will not resolve them selves till we decide to behave rationally. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

The term for this is, "Oppsy". This was actually very commen back when vector 2's closed in just way. It will probbable work fine but the bottom line is that it's just not right and tecnicly not leagle. So take the thing back to him and slap him up side the head and make him reclose it. He'll be quite shagrined over the whole thing. And if there was a case of bear involved in the transaction make him repay it. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Where to begin?... b-12 and mill rigs. I don't know what you fly up there but here in texas we've got planes. I mean lot's of planes. North texas is very airplane friendly. And we've got war birds. It's big around here. There are T-6's on every field and there are little airports every where. Cavinaw air mussim which was right down the road must have brought in 10 rigs a month. As to age, over the years we've made them replace most of there canopies at some point. You can still get C-9's. As to mill surpluse, there are still deals out there. As an example Story baught... I want to say it was a bunch of ba-22's a couple of years ago. I think he got a whole conex container of them new in the box never put in service, not demilled. My friend picked up an mc-4 fully intact. I've seen simular deals on I think it was navy backs? I just wasn't in the market at the time. I don't really understand the workings of the goverment. Tom tryed to explane some of this to me, the codes under which it was decomishioned, shelf life, service life, etc but my mind just doesn't work that way. But what I can tell you is that all of the above on still in service down here and make up a good percentage of the trade. Security. That list was an example of what I was exposed to before I was signed off. Yep they're gone now and I can't say that I miss them but at the time there was a shit load of them around here. Walked into the shop every week. Lots and lot's of sail planes around here. Ribs. I think the first patch I ever sewed was on a strong tandom. Yah it was. It was that fucking marroun one Doc had. I want to say the patches were about three foot across and I had the whole tail apart. Baptisim by fire and it only seemed to get worse from there. I remember the one that got sucked into the jet ski... but I degress. At this point I acually don't find it to be that hard. I've got the tools, more double neadles then I can shake a stick at. Any body want a head... sewing machine that is. but you have to come and pick it up. If you have to generate a pattern it's a pain but it you've got enough peaces... and some times the manufacorer is just as much of a pain in the ass and some times more exspencive. I guess it's just a matter of perspective. I sew... a lot. National. Dude, national is still out there. Yes it's been a while sence I've packed a warp three and now they've devorced them selves from there older gear, bummer cause I've got a cherry red and black warp down stairs... In any case what's your deal about the phantoms? Yes they had service bullitons most of which had been done over the years. None of which were any big deal at the time. Yes they're gone now but guess what national lives on! One word, Aerostar. Still out there still selling them. They are fucking every where. And gee what is an aerostar... it's a fucking phantom. A phantom with the mods and better line attachment points. 2 pins. What is your deal with two pins and pop tops. I guess it's just a reagional thing. There are some areas of the country where racers rule. Where half the people out there have pop tops. Farbanks sold a whole but load of reflexes around here. What's his name in houston used to sell racers and reflexes to every one he could. Parts for the reflx are scarce in spite of the talk about reviving it. so they are slowly going away. but racer is still out there and if you deal with foren jumpers a lot of those people are running at least a generation behind. CRW. Hell crw jumpers will jump any thing. It's less of an issue now that the trend is towards smaller canopies... actually it's a bummer. You could get a crw worthy rig so cheap there for a while. There's still no shortage of teardrops around europe. Strong paracushions are every where you look. and wait, didn't you work for buttler? Has he ever built a rig with only a single pin? As for educations. I was lucky I got exposed to a lot. I had a chance to work under a lot of good people. And I'm still not done learning. Right now my floor is covered with alluminised PBI fabric. It's the shit workers wear in foundries. It's rated to 1300 deg f and reflecs 90 some odd percent of the heat. Shit's $75 a yard and the goods are narrow. Building a new recovery system this week. Air frame should be good for 500,000 feet. My table is covered with books, dynamics of atmospheric reentry by Regan, Hypersonic and high temperature gas dynamics by anderson, list goes on. Brain hurts every night, but we're makeing progress. I was makeing some more changes to my model the other day. The point is that there is all kinds of rigging. And as far as I'm concerned if you are a rigger you're a rigger. There's no limits no boundries. And you're growth shouldn't stop at the end of that week when some one stamps your forhead with your seal symble and hands you your temp certificate. And I don't like the idea that there is no world beyond the drop zone and no parachute beyond a mirage. I think that attitude is more then limmiting it's hurtfull. And a wider base of knowlage helps you and improves your understanding and is a binnifit even when you are packing an optima into a mirage container... again. I've got to get back to work. Let the entertainment of the masses comence. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

I'm going to take exception to the very primis of your question. I know what you're trying to ask I just disagre on a very basic level with the assumptions behind the question. I absolutely do not agree with the concept of a Junior rigger. I don't beleave that there is such a thing. I don't beleave in the idea of a limited riggers ticket. And I'm not spliting hairs about senior and master rigger certificates or any of that. I replied to the last post here so I don't have the list in front of me but I'll just take one of them as an example. The thing about one pin reserves... WTF? I'm in the US so admitedly it may be diffrent else where but here if you're back rated that means you should be able to pack any, and I mean ANY, back parachute that walks through the door. I don't have my old log book here in front of me but just off the top of my head I'll toss out things that I know were in there before they were willing to sign me off to go take my practical... b-12 nb-8 ba-22 various security PEP butler paracushen brief case prestige warp 3 national pep slimpack thinpack wedge softie wonderhog RTS Mirage, various two pin, in and out Racers and of course most of the commen single pins of the time. Vector, tallon, jav. I don't know, I want to say it was 40 or 50 backs at the time that I took my test, and then I had another x number of seats. I can't clame that I had 40 diffrent types of rigs but it wasn't any one rig over and over again eather. I'm trying to recall if I had more then one packjob on any one rig and I don't remember. And just for the record I'm not that old. Point is that they should be perfectly capable of packing any thing from an old mil four pin to a tight wings. Nobody will sign you off around here if you don't have a full spread of PEP in your log book. You should be every bit as comfertable with a c-9 as a PD reserve. As to the rest... Just because you're a senior rigger doesn't excuse you from needing to know about assemblie, harness construction and repair modifacation, line set repare/replacement, major canopy repares patches across seams rib/cell replacement or even the manufactoring of equpment. You're expected to have a full working knowlage of all of the above. If only to inspect work that has allready been done. Just because you are not qualified to sign off on the job does not mean that you are excused from being able to do the work. A sienior rigger does the work. A master rigger supervises and signs off on the work. I'm sorry, I'm going to rant here for a second. I do not hold with the idea of a week long course to teach some one to be a rigger. Eaven with a signifigant amount of prep work before arival, I don't buy it. I'm a ferm beleaver that it should be an aprintice ship program. I'm of the oppionion that it takes a min of about six months to make a rigger. That's in an active bussy loft where you will be exposed to a wide verrity of work. And I'd still call that a minimal incompleate education. It's a long way to go to what I'd call a "Master Rigger". Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Used to see the same thing on a lot of the security rigs. Sail planes. People sweat like pigs in them, hardware coroads. The security had the hard ware up on the chest crossed in an X. As I recall it was in a type 7 loop but I don't think it had a buffer strip. Tended to knaw on the webbing. I was glad to see them go. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Did they actually bend or was there concern that they would? Round ring elongating in harnesses has happioned a lot. RI used a large round ring for there hip rings. A lot of those wound up ovaled to one degree or another. Very commen but I don't recall any failures. We broke a RW-9 a few weaks ago in testing. Normally they were good to around 12,000 but this one snaped at 7,000. No clue. Maybe a fracture hidden under the plateing. We were talking about magnafluxing our stock of hardware but in the end we wound up machining a set of custom megga rings. Now we're good to go to over 20,000 lb's. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

I'm not sure you were following me. I wasn't refering to the rellitively small number of high speed drops. I was implying that that that should be the normal speed for testing which would imply that the high speed testing, which I think there should be more of, would be in excess of 240 mph. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Maybe, maybe not. Some times it's just a matter of thinking a little bit out side the box. Let's take canopies as an example. In the past we did our high speed test by getting a high speed airplane with a high door speed and comeing screaming across the field at a couple of hundred feet sliding it out the door and hopeing that nothing got caught. We're getting up to speeds that sometimes you're talking about a bomber. Very exciting and way way too costly. Honestly it's fucking stupid. I cant belleave we haven't had problems. Now correct me if I'm wrong but Doesn't TSO C23D make provisions for the use of a "bomb" type deployment system for testing? I've done this with projects. Hell that's how we'll be doing our next test. Tossing it out and letting it accelerate to the chosen air speed and poping the canopy. I got about two weeks to the next full up nose cone test. It's somuch easier so much safer. And so so much cheaper. And what stops you from going as fast and as heavy as you want? Harnesses are I admit fundomentally more difficult. It's harder to just toss a dumby out into free fall. Allthough as I think about it in some ways it's not that diffrent from some of the things we're doing. You could just throw Zumebob out the back of the tail gate. You would need a roll vane but that's no diffrent from what we use on the Mod rockets. And it works fine at least subsonic. Small drogue for basic stabillity. Harder to do it in odd attitudes, it would want to spin but if you were creative enough I bet you could. But how much of it needs to be done in the air? We've got some really good data on record now about opening forces. Even down to the asymitry between sides of the harness and even indevidual risers. A lot of this can be done on the ground. There was a time I would have called bullshit on that but it's getting to the point where it's true. We built a 20,000 lb test stand with a really nice load cell, couple actually. And it wasn't that spendy. With a "dumby" mock up I bet I could test most of the failure modes fairly acceratly. With a relletivly small amount of engenuity I'll bet I could recreate all of the failures I've seen. A "split" dumby for asymettrical loadings Multible attachment points to change the angle of the load to control the "peeling" of certin joints. That along with the fairly accerate load data that we have from hard openings... The more I think about it the more doable it seems. Stop! No! Arrg! Must focas on 20 inch rocket. Ten days to build new system! Must not be destacted. Must... shut... off... computer... click Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

A number of years ago I was talking to... I think it was Tamera Corn about free flying which was reletivly new at the time. I was predicting that we would start to see canopy failures and then harness failures as the speeds increased. As it turns out it hasn't been as bad as I thought. I think the main reason we haven't had more problems is that the deployment systems have improved in there security. I'm not saying that that isn't a good thing but it doesn't change the fact that a good portion of the skydive is beyond the normal envolope of the equipment when you free fly. I've been sereously wondering if we should be rethinking some of our testing. I can't really bring my self to pretend that it's ok that 75% of the skydive occures beyond the safe working envolope of the equipment. It bothers me that we are acceping the fact that you have to decelerate to open your canopy and that doing so in the middle of a jump might be unsurvivable. I don't think any of the comments or stories in this thread should taken as criticisem about any one design. It's more just examples of wear over time in an increasingly demanding enviroment. The simple fact is that our sport is evolving faster then the gear. People are getting heavier, Speeds are getting higher, and deployment attitudes are nolonger garenteed to be belly to earth. It might be time for a real step forward to try to get ahead or at least catch up with what is really happioning in the field. Maybe it's time for 200 mph to become the standard testing speed for canopies. Main and reserves. And I'm not just talking about squeaking by on one or two drops. I'm saying that should be the standard for the whole program with some of the openings being at altitude till the designs fully cover the entire envolope of the skydive. Maybe we should be spending more time testing harnesses with induiced headdown/asymetric openings. We can do better. Hell you should see the system we're working on right now. 15,000 lb test standard for the drogue asimbally and the same for each indevidual riser group. A fifteen thousand pound single point drogue release took some doing and the next one will need to be tested to over 30,000 lb. It's just a question of the willingness to do the work. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

I've seen harness damage on a number of rigs over the years. I'll include hc manufatorers but I'm mainly listing them as a refrence so every one will understand what the design looks like. Not dishing any thing I just find the design decisions to be interesting. So I'll start tossing out examples as best I can recall them, some of these were quite a while back. I've seen damage to the hip junctions of Javelins where they tork down wards poping stiches above the legstrap. It's kind of a catch 22. There wrap around design seems a little more prone to peeling lose there but on the other hand it prevents a catistofic failure. This happens most often on badly fitting harnesses but I've seen it on people that were just heavy. Also notice that if the legstraps are lose or slip the angle becomes much worse. It's not always easy to see the broken stiches. If you scrape your fingernail across them or just grab a stich and pull on it you'll often find that it's not just a single stich in the center of the patern that's broken but several stiches on several rows. I once saw the entire lower patern fail. It slid down his leg and cenched around his thie. Big bruse all the way around. No shit the wrap around thing worked and saved his life. It's just a little box of five cord in that webbing between the 22040 and the junction but it held. Oddly I don't think the put that stiching in there harnesses with B-12 snaps, not enough room. I've seen damage in the same spot on a number of other rigs. Designs with the webbing sanwiched in between the layers of the main lift web seem to show this damage less often but I still see it. I've never personally seen a full failure of this joint but I've seen harnesses with a signifigant amout of the pattern broken, 50%. It would have been a bad day if it hadn't been cought. I don't know if there has been a full failure, I've heard uncomfermed stories but they may be urben/loft legends but people have tryed to address it. As an example remember when Booth changed his harness design so that the legstrap wraps around the inner peace of type 8? The change was made back in the middle of the Vector 2's. V1 and early V2 are just sanwiched in and the later V2's and V3 wrap around. Looks the same from the outside but it was a "minor change" that he could make to give it some redundancy. There are plenty of others that still use a plug in sanwich on there continuous harnesses. Another odd one was on a quazar from strong. Same sort of thing, hip joint had poped a number of stiches. But i remember looking more closely at the design and reallizeing that althoue it looked like it wrapped around it really didn't. I'm trying to recall exactly, it's been a while but I want to say that it sanwiched and then one layer of the type 8 wraped around on the bottom but it didn't go past the joint towards the legstrap. So there wasn't really any true redundance. Didn't a rig, racer maybe, lose a chest strap in europe, Italy or Spane? I seem to recall seeing pictures of it. Blew out all the stiches on one side? Loads can be so asymetric from one side of the canopy to the other. It's one of the problems we're seeing here in some of the stuff I'm working on now. I seem to recall some one asking booth why he had not gone to a type 17 chest strap and I seem to recall him going off about asymetric openings and damage on high speed drops. I seem to recall pictures of an eastern block rig. The MLW comeing apart on one side at the upper junction. What was the story on that? Bad thread? Any one recall the details? I'm kind of supprised we haven't seen more but that's all I can think of right now. At some point I should probable write up something about some of the restructive testing we've been doing on some of the rocket stuff. It's actually interesting to see how strong things really are. It get's a little weird when you start playing with kevlar. Not as much streatch and give. Forces don't eaven out as well as with nylon. But thats for another time. I'm actually surprised that we haven't seen more failures. Any one have any other stories or remember more details about these. Some of the things frome Quincy are a little... fuzzy. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

How much is two much? Well it's actually quite a bit. You are showing signs of being a sensetive and caring human being. However most skydivers are rather thick skined. Bear with me here this is some thing I've thought a lot about. Have you ever noticed the diffrences in how we react to deaths as opposed to the adverage wofo? A car crash, plane crash, accedent any thing. There are some people that run towards the accedent and others that stop and gape. There are people that jam there thumb in the hole that's pumping blood out and others that put there hands on there head and scream oh my god. I'm not talking about hero stuff I'm talking about the diffrence between passive and active personalities. But it's more then that. Have you ever watched how people deal with fear? Not just in the imedeant sence but in uncertinty? The ability to intilectualize and manage the risk? To some degree this seems to be about where the ballace falls between reason and emotion. Skydivers draw heavily from group A rather then from Group B. I don't know, maybe daddy droped us on one side of our head when we were babies. It's a generallization but it seems to be true. Now think about death. Think about how we handle death. I'm not saying it doesn't hurt but think about how people behave in both the short and the long term. In perticular how skydivers relate to it over time in the long term. I've seem wofo's still morning a death years even decades later. Absolutely torn apart by it as if they were defined by this loss. I don't see that among skydivers. The morning cycles are shorter. I'm not saying we froget but we don't seem to be rulled by it in the same way. I'm not sure why this is. A more rational personality? A certin level of selfishness? Or maybe it's a greater familiarity. As an example, I went through a really bad streak that lasted for about four years. It just seemed like every one I knew was dieing. It wasn't all one thing some was BASE, some was CRW, some skysurfing, weird test jumps, climbing, lots of skydiving. People I knew from all over the country that were into the exact same things I was doing seemd to be dropping like flys. The short story is that in my first five years I knew two people that died but in those four years I filled up the rest of my fingers and toes. Quit counting after that. That's a pretty high rate to lose friends. In fact I think you'd be hard pressed to find that death rate in any thing out side an army in combat. The point is that death is no stranger to any of us. How many deathes do most people exspereance in there lives? Say by the age of there middle thirties. One? Two? Maybe lost a parrent, maybe a friend. Prier to skydiving I'd lost Two. Some times I wonder if some of our ideosencricies are a copeing mecanisem for an ongoing PTSD or some shit like that. In any case if you roll all of these things togather you wind up with a skydiver. Is it any wonder that we are not exactly risk adverse. Our hides are thick. Fatalities are not going to slow us down. They never have before. We're still skydiving. We may have improved our gear, tecneaques may have improved. The way we do things may have changed but have deaths ever stopped us from doing what we want to do? The whole Risk Homeostasis thing is true. There has been a spike when ever new tecnology has come along as the sport has evolved. Then we catch up with it. But beyond those flucuations the death rate has held remarkable stedy. No advancement in safety has reduiced the fatality rate. It's just shifted from one catigory to another. I see no end to the dieing. And I'm forced to conclude that it's because of us. We like it this way. This is by deffinition the level of risk that we chose. All that would have to happen to decrease the fatalite rate by...what do you think, 70%? would be for us to decide colectively to stop takeing risk. Before the death rate can change we our selves would have to change and I don't see that. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Your right I wasn't very clear. What I was trying to ask about is the FAA legality. How would a foot launched tandom powered paraglider be treated by the FAA. Maybe I'm miss understanding but I thought that the wavers held by the paraglideing/hanggliding assoceations to part 103 were strictly for unpowered flight. That they permited tandom foot launched unpowerd flight for instruction and in one case recreation. I was under the impression that all of the wavers for powered 103 ultralights were expired and that no more tandom flight was permited under a waver to part 103. Am I understanding this correctly that there was a cut off date at which a two seat ultra light could be registered as a Light Sport and that that date was long past? What happions to one not yet registered? Can it fall under the Experamental/self built Light Sport? If I'm understanding this correctly foot launched powered paragliders are not being registered as Light Sport planes. Correct me if I'm wrong but only factory built/certified light sport planes can be used of comercal/instructional use. And of the "Ultralights" only quick silver has managed to jump through all the hoops for that. I remember lissening to all the Ultralight guys bitching about it haveing been turned into general aviation. What is the big hold up? The expence of engion certification? So my question is what exactly are they? Have I missed some thing? How and under what part of the FAR's or under what waiver can they be opperated? Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

I seem to recall that there was an effort to file a charge of manslauter in one of the lake paule cases but I can't recall the out come. Who remembers the outcome of the Dennis McGlen case? Any other presedents? Are there any leagle means to opperate foot launched powered paragliders? I've seen pictures of them. A guy tryed to sell me one here in Texas. Did these things just fall through the cracks? Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

The bag is simi spicific to the container. At the very least you want one that is the same shape. The bag shapes the canopy to fit and fill the containe. Pilot chutes are more generic and reguarly replaced but you may need to replace the handle, Free Fly handles etc. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

What if it was registered as a Light Sport? A lot of this has been done from two seat trikes. I was once told that the FAA had declared that skydiving was an inharently comercial activity. I know a sport pilot can not fly for compensation but as I understand it a private pilot or in this case a comercial pilot can fly a Light Sport plane under the pribliges of his certificat. Is there any thing baring a comercial pilot from flying jumpers in a Light sport or is that simple a restiction against comercial flight by a Sport pilot? Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

This is a cross post from basejumper.com , I know I'm a bad boy, but I'd like to get some oppionions on it and you might not see it there. http://www.basejumper.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2954173;#2954173 In short it looks like there was a fatality from a two seat ultra light, Light Sport?, at an airport during a fly in. This shit has been done a lot but I can't think of another example of a fatality. I'm wondering if the FAA might get off there ass and take notice. It could set interesting precidents. Raises questions about the gear, regs, etc. A lot of this has been going on with non TSO'd base gear. I don't know if that's the case here. I'm also wondering how it would relate to part 91, and part 105. Feel free to wonder over and join the conversation. We're friendly... NOT, but hay it's the internet they can't hurt you through the moniter. Or start a descusion here. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Keep in mind that the low speed opening caricteristics are not the only thing driving the design process. You also have to pass the high speed, heavy weight tests. Once a point of time every one compeated and bragged about the speed of the openings of their reserves. Low pulls were one of the big killers. People pulled, and by this I mean they though there pilot chute, at 2000 ft. Not saddeled there. If you dumped higher then that people would at best call you a student and more often a pussy and want to know why you weren't there for that last point. Keep in mind back then canopies opened faster, mals were less violant, and you knew right away if it was good. I'm not saying that people don't still die from low reserve deployment but the number of accedents where that was a factor is way down. All the altitudes have gone up. Now look at the oposit end of the picture. Speeds have gone up, that's actually a big deal. and wing loadings have gone up. People are demanding that there reserves carry almost as high of a wing loading as their mains. and the main thing is a little out of hand IMO. I remember I had this conversation with some one at quincy a number of years ago. I was telling her that we were going to start breaking things and that it would start with canopies. Help me out with my memory here. We've broken lines on Ravens, torn line attachment points off the M series, broken lines on tempos. That's just off the top of my head. Any one else care to add to the list? I'm not so much bashing manufactorers as just pointing out that we're running up against the limitations of our gear on what were always thought of as excelent canopies. Although there have been a few incedents we really haven't seen as many harness failures as I'd expected by now. Still waiting on that. But what I have personally seen is people killed or injured or paralized by hard openings. I've personaly seen three deaths and one parapligic. I'm not even going to count the kneck and back injuries that are makeing some of my friends lives a living hell. Now as it just so happend those fatalities were all on mains but I have seen people put down for weeks by reserves. So riddle me this how much faster do you really want some thing to open? Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

The Vip's and Vipers were both nice canopies. The Vip is trimed flat. It will bring you back from spots you wouldn't beleave. It does like a little extra speed on landing. It's flat enough that it's not over flowing with flare athority from full flight. Just a little front riser or a slight turn are more then enough. I always thought it was a fine canopy. Fabric isn't great. It does wear out and get permible over time. It doesn't last like modern zp. I really liked this canopy. And the openings were sweet. The viper is a diffrent animal. More nose down. Much more sporty. Plenty of flare. Can open a little brisk. It's about like a saber one on openings and every one jumped those for years. Nothing to be afraid of. Great canopy and better fabric then the VIP. The Perche, I'm refering to the original rectangular canopy was nothing to wright home about. I guess it flew ok but I was never happy with the landings on it. Needs some speed and even then the dynamics of the way it pitches just weren't right. I'd stear clear of them if you have any. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com