ufk22

To quote Mr. Spock, Star Trek, the TV show "You will find that often the wanting is more pleasurable than the having. It is not logical, but it is so." This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

The triathalon is a decent compromise canopy for a low time jumper. It doesn't do anything really well, just doesn't do anything poorly, other than the flair. My experience on a number of different sized triathalon, you've got to time your flair almost perfectly to get a real soft stand up landing. Otherwise it's a good canopy to learn on. Some might even say that the flair characteristics make it a good beginners canopy, cause if you can learn to consistantly get good landing out of a triathalon, you can land anything. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

Reallisticly, probably no danger. If it's safe being 11 years and 11 months old, there's no reason why it's not safe 2 months later. My guess is that the age factor is more about liability than about function. That being said, it is NOT jumpable and can't be repacked, although I don't know of any FAA regs that apply, there again a matter of liabiliy for a rigger to pack a rig with an AAD he knows is expired according to the manufacture's specs. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

You're already a coach. Decide what raing you want and focus on coach jumps in that area(I know, doesn't work for tandems). Doing great RW with people who are good at it will make you a great RW flyer, but jumping with students and low timers will give you a different kind of skills that you need for teaching. You'll never get the chance to side-slide 100 yards, drop or gain 25' in altitude and dock doing "good" RW. You'll never learn to recognise what the problems are jumping with people that fly well. And most importantly, learn to take a deep breath and exhale slowly before debriefing someone that has just scared you to death. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

Consider a 190. It'll get you more safely through the next couple hundred jumps. You can find this size used for a reasonable cost. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

That's why the look is so important. Locate the cutaway handle/pillow, reach in, grab and pull in one motion, then clear the cables. Looking and getting one hand on each handle takes longer, and the longer the hands are in, the more likely for the student to barrel roll or go head down/partial front loop. Realistically, the RSL will get the reserve out before the student can find the other handle and pull it. I don't talk about that to the student, just to continue the procedure (look at the deployment handle, then reach and pull). The idea is to get the student to see the handle while still in an arch, then to spend as little time as possible getting the cutaway handle pulled. And yeah, I know you can't "rely" on the RSL, but it's there and it will work most of the time. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

Didn't mean to piss you off... I've seen plenty of provocative posts thrown out just to get people riled up. The fact that you've been in the sport 20 years means you must have seen more than a couple of people hurt themselves because of NOT doing a good PLF on landing. My reference to your canopy wasn't a put-down. I jump a Stiletto 150. The Stiletto was and still is a high performance canopy, just no longer the highest performance. You say you scare yourself on it. A PLF can and will save you when the corner gets too close and there aren't any outs. Bottom line, to carry your original thought to it's logical conclusion, would be that we quit teaching emergency procedures because the equipment is a lot safer today, and spending all that time on plan B (emergency procedures) isn't necessary. To quote your original post; "After all, having a plan B is planning on failing plan A." This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

This isn't about what YOU prefer. You have over 2000 jumps. This is about students. Keep It Simple. LOOK, then pull with both hands. And don't get me started about the people who teach students "This is what we teach, BUT THIS IS HOW I DO IT." This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

You've been in the sport about 20 years and jump a Stilletto 120? This is a joke, right? Just a stir-the-pot post? This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

First of all, listen to your instructor. If the procedure he's teaching is "look, reach, pull", follow the procedure. The fact that other dz's with other equipment teach something different dowsn't mean what you're taught is wrong, just that it's different, so do what you're told. With the old handle system, not looking might mean you grab harness or altimeter rather than your handle. The trick is to move your arms and your head without moving your torso. Practice this. Stand in your X-arch and try moving your arms and lowering your head without moving your shoulders or breaking your arch. It's not natural, but it can be easily done. It's a mind over mind thing. You're used to dropping your shoulder when you reach down. You're used to bending at the waist when you lower your head to look down. But.... You don't have to drop a shoulder to reach in with your arm. You don't have to bend at the waist to lower your head. Practice, practice, practice. Have someone watch you, or better yet, lightly rest their hands on your shoulders while you practice. You'll feel the pressure when you don't do it right, and no pressure when you do. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

He was handed off to me to dispatch after having received his brief. Hope you learned more from this than he did. I don't just take up a student after someone else "hands him off". Take a little time and go over what he's going to do before you get on the aircraft. It isn't that I doen't trust other instructors (his training was done by an instructor, not a coach?), it's just that I don't know what they actually worked on or how long. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

This is something you have to figure out for yourself. What is a safe wind varies with the individual and the location. I jump in the upper midwest (Minnesota/Dakota's) and we always have wind. Up here, I'll jump wind over 20 MPH if they're steady, and would jump 6-8 MPH gusts if the top is under 20, but you have to be ready. A big drop in wind speed 20' off the ground can cause a lot of problems if you're not ready. Also, I jump a Stelletto, which has a very quick recovery. Arizona is a different story, as winds down there seem to change faster. I jumped in 12-16 mph winds down ther a few years ago. I landed, dropped 1 toggle to get my canopy on the ground quick, but a gust grabbed my canopy, picked me up, and dropped me back down about 30' from where I'd been standing. Broken collar bone. Be careful This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

Chad Throw the shovel away Do not keep digging!!!! This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

Depends on the instructor........ My goal is "once and done" This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

now that would be a thread that would go on forever This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

[I think you just made Andrew's point for him. The above should have been the speech that the OP gave to the student (with some changes to the relavent nouns), not the one about bowling . No, the point is Andrew was giving him the "bowling speech" for giving the "bowling speech". Neither one deserved it. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

You think a student should land in a tree rather than a parking lot? Have you ever landed in a tree? I got some news for you, trees are not soft. I have landed in a few trees with a kevlar jumpsuit and fully caged motorcycle helmet built specifically for landing in trees and it hurts like fuck. Are you teaching students to be so afraid of a downwind landing that they will choose an obstacle instead? You are making some bad teaching choices. I think you should think about giving up coaching students; you don't seem to have the knack for it. Maybe you can find something else to coach . WHOA!!!!! Seems to me like you're committing the sin you're condemning. This is no more reason for Chad to give up coaching/instructing than it may have been for his student to give up skydiving. Yes, I'd agree he may have over-reacted to what his student did, but remember, he's just started working with students. I've probably made every mistake an instructor can make without injuring a student. Most of these mistakes were made when I was green as grass, and I'm thanksful that they weren't all subject to review by this board. I learned from them and never made the same mistake twice. That's all we can ask from ourselves or anyone else. At the very least give him credit for erring on the side of safety rather than pushing a student beyond his capacity, which seems to be a much more common error, and one that is a lot more dangerous. Hang in there, Chad. Like I said before, you're going to be a great instructor. Just remember, students can generate as much or more adrenaline than a skydive. Take that deep breath. And I bet you're sorry you started this thread. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

Chad I hoped that we taught you better than that at the coaches course. Are you sure that your "hook" and the subsequent broken bones haven't made you overly sensitive? At least HE walked away. Seriously, it's not unusual for someone just getting started with students to overreact on the side of caution. Give yourself a few years and a few more student (and coach candidate) inspired grey hairs. You were great in the CCC and you'll make a great instructor, but just like during a jump, if things go to shit, it's sometimes best to take a deep breath, exhale slowly, and then deal with it. Bill This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

Good for you. An excellent teaching tool. I'd even give them the video if they wanted it. That, and tell those greedy bastards to "F*** **F" This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

This is just another symptom of the problems that all the $'s can and are causing in the sport. Another thread in this forum talks about being chewed out for shooting video while training because it means the student doesn't have to PAY a vidiot to join the jump, thereby "stealing" money from the video person. I'm from a small, club drop zone. Most days that I'm not officially instructing I'm still working with students or low time jumpers. I can't count the number of first 4 ways, first multi-point, first anything that I've taken low timers out on, and in non-student cases I'm buying my own jump. With so many "professionals" getting paid for so many things in this sport and the cost of jumps going up every year, it's only natural that there are a lot less "volunteer" jumps going on. I still do them. Last spring down in Eloy, a buddy and I spent most of one day jumping with a couple of low-time jumpers from Germany. We taught them alot, and ended up getting them a couple good 4-way launches off the otter. We had a great time, bought our own jumps, got some challenging flying in (working with low-time jumpers can really test your flying abilities) and they bought beers at the end of the day. But I guess my point is I do this when and because I want to, not because my rating obligates me to. I still worry about more dictators in this sport, but my offer for the jumps stands. Hoorah This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

Crew canopies open like a bomb going off. That's part of their design, to open as fast as possible in a sub-terminal deployment. My first NEW canopy was an Interceptor, an early crew canopy. I ended up black and blue on both legs taking it to terminal until someone showed me how to pack it for "soft " openings, "roll the nose up past a B lines", and I still had a flying canopy in 100 feet. The lightning is even more explosive. If you had a premature opening while free flying it would rip your heart open, if you had a camera on, it would rip your head off. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

Whoa, Sheldon. Stop, take a deep breath, then go back and reread this thread. Maybe read s l o w l y so that you comprehend. This isn't about what I'm willing to say or do, it's about AUTHORITY. I can only give advice, not because I'm an "I", but because I'm concerned as a fellow skydiver. You say you'll listen. That's fine. What if you don't like my advice? Do you want me, as an "I", to have the authority to TELL you what you may or may not do on your next jump or whether you can freefly or belly fly or what size canopy you will be allowed to jump after you've earned your license, and have the authority to ground you if you don't follow orders???? Sorry, not in my sport. With freedom comes responsibility. Personal responsibility for ourselves. If someone chooses not to exercise this responsibility............................................ pay the price or take up bowling! I vote for freedom First off with your response I can tell your not a looking to help as a "fellow skydiver". I'm not 5 and I know what I read. I think your taking your responsibility too lightly honestly. You like your freedom and I like my life. If somebody thinks they have the right to override an instructor when they have for example an A or B license then they have no business being in the sport. If you were the student that did that to YOUR instructors then so be it, but speaking for myself and a LOT of people new to the sport I have met, I believe that there is no excuse for somebody who has devoted a good portion of their life to this sport not to help and guide people that probably don't know better. I'm not at all trying to be rude to you, I just hope most people don't view this subject the way you do. If it is people lives at risk then I believe by you being an instructor you have an obligation and a duty to help those less knowledgeable than you whether they want your advice or not. If you refuse to step in when your heart tells you hey something isn't right or I would like to check that, then I'm sorry but you have no right being in a position of being an instructor. But maybe I'm a little to sane for this sport, Once again, you missed the point. Freedom is YOUR freedom, once licensed, to do as you wish. You can, if you wish, jump in 40 MPH winds, once you have a license. I can tell you, and rest assured I would, that it's a stupid idea, but I can't stop you. My rating doesn't give me that authority, and I don't think it should. Also, your posts seem to show more than a bit of attitude, i.e., that you know what I'm saying better than I do and you're not willing to go back and reread the earlier posts to see if you might have misinterpreted something. This is the type of attitude you are certainly allowed to have and is very prevalent among skydivers. So be it. To take it a step further, I don't like your attitude toward me, as an instructor and I'm going to ground you until you show me the proper respect. Do you really want me to have that authority? This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

Whoa, Sheldon. Stop, take a deep breath, then go back and reread this thread. Maybe read s l o w l y so that you comprehend. This isn't about what I'm willing to say or do, it's about AUTHORITY. I can only give advice, not because I'm an "I", but because I'm concerned as a fellow skydiver. You say you'll listen. That's fine. What if you don't like my advice? Do you want me, as an "I", to have the authority to TELL you what you may or may not do on your next jump or whether you can freefly or belly fly or what size canopy you will be allowed to jump after you've earned your license, and have the authority to ground you if you don't follow orders???? Sorry, not in my sport. With freedom comes responsibility. Personal responsibility for ourselves. If someone chooses not to exercise this responsibility............................................ pay the price or take up bowling! I vote for freedom This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

Yeah, I see you've got a coach rating. Are you really looking for help for yourself, or more just authority now that you've got a rating? Sorry, USPA isn't the Marine Corp. If skydiving had the kind of enforced structure you're talking about, alot of us wouldn't be skydivers. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

QuotePoint taken, and admittedly a vague hypothetical. I get that the 'line' is the A lisc when it comes to responsibility. But there are many cases where new jumpers still have a lot to learn. I consider myself in this category. I don't think that there is anyone out there that believes that once someone has their A they know everything they need to know. We currently do not have any progression program in place, other than making more jumps in order to get advanced liscenses. None that are enforced anyway. So the question here is "is there anyone responsible for the education of skydivers beyond the A?" I'm of the belief the instructors play some role here. Although it is not defined in any manual, ethically, an instructor bears the burden to educate outside the lines of the hard and fast rules. Am I off here? [/reply Yes, you're way off. I'm starting to resent you thinking something is owed you because of my rating. To repeat myself. An I rating means I am qualified to teach someone the basics of skydiving and have a responsibility to do this to the best of my abilities in a manner that is safe, prudent, and conforms to USPA recommendations and the BSR's. A lot of people with instructional ratings will work with low time jumpers for the same reason they got a rating in the first place, because they enjoy it. A lot of people with instructional ratings might not be the best teachers of advanced skills. The only person responsible for your education from here on out is YOU. Yes, you've got a lot to learn, and the only way to learn is to make a lot of jumps and a lot of mistakes. Jump with a lot of different people and start figuring out who's telling what really happened and who's chewing you out to cover their own mistakes. When you get to the point you've learned it all and don't make any mistakes, realize that "it really ain't so", readjust your attitude, and start learning all over again. When you know it all in this sport, is only means you're cocky and dangerous and stupid. And when you don't get a little nervous before every skydive, get out of the sport. Taking things for granted is the fastest way to die. Good luck, and if we ever run in to each other I'd gladly make a jump or two with you. Not because I'm obligated, but because it'd be fun. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.